Seeking allies, Obama turns to France?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Honestly France is probably our best ally. Really when it comes down to it they are the ally that isn't afraid to tell us when we are doing something stupid. Not that the relationship doesn't have issues stemming from both parties looking out for their own best interests. The fact is we have to compete in Africa, I do not necessarily think that our competing there is going to be particularly helpful to anyone other than corporate interests looking for cheap labor however. Make no mistake about it that is why this is being done, to provide infrastructure for more offshore manufacturing complete with built in suicide nets.

reply to post by crazyewok


Israel isn't what I'd call a close ally anymore, I'm afraid. We're allies by treaty and agreement a dozen times over or more. Those are treaties they can't just walk from anymore than we can, even if we're both sick of each others lies and crap. I'm sure they are sick of ours, if not the reverse. This secret stupidity with Iran has done a fine and outstanding job of burning the relationships in that whole region to a crispy finish. Lets see... We've all but left Iraq and Molakai to die. Saudi Arabia is someone we'll deal security away for if Iran can be our new friend and Israel? Well... Best buddies with Iran means enemies to Israel. There aren't many ways to see that ....and why I say we're burning allies like it's free.

Germany and Europe are a WHOLE different matter and thats 100% and totally American made failure and self-determined disaster. That started with dealing away Poland and the Missile Defense Shield as if it was just so much B.S. to play off for better Russian relations. I was in shock to see that way back at the start. Poland trusted us. They stuck their neck WAYYY the hell out under Bush to agree to some of that in the face of a raging Russia...but they trusted we'd stand behind them. We just walked away from them, figuratively, and let them make up with Moscow however they best could... My God..what HAVE we become??

Germany ...well, if we weren't peeking in Merkel's windows and spying on her private cell phone to get busted with it? Maybe...one of the closest allies the United States has had in Europe over the last 30-40 years would have remained so ... Now? I don't know where we stand with Germany and it's closest friends..since the NSA seems to burn just about everyone on Earth equally. (sigh)

Then we come to France.. a nation that OPENLY and ACTIVELY worked against our nation in 2002/2003. It wasn't enough to say they didn't agree with Iraq...they needed to move around the world behind us, actively working to change minds against us. That's not read, or looked up...that's directly recalled from watching the reports and listening to the coverage 12 hours a day back then (Nothing much better to do while trucking than listen to the coverage across radio and reading papers).

So, as usual....my thinking on this was very multi-layered for where I'm forming my opinions from. It's a hell of a deal to see what this President has done to US standing in the world. In 6 years we've gone from feared, respected and detested ...depending on whom one talked to in 2008 ...to basically just detested and looked down on.

Exactly where this nation was at ...or worse... in 1980. History repeats, but with interest this time. Plenty of interest added.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I'm sorry, but in 2002-03 France was busy pointing out that the WMD 'proof' that Bush and Blair were waving around was a load of fetid dingoes kidneys. I don't recall France conspiring against the USA at any point.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


We'll agree to disagree on that with respect but with absolute disagreement. Remember Freedom Fries? I'm not the only one who saw things that way.....and opinions obviously vary for interpretation of Frances actions.

Wrabbit2000

Germany ...well, if we weren't peeking in Merkel's windows and spying on her private cell phone to get busted with it? Maybe...one of the closest allies the United States has had in Europe over the last 30-40 years would have remained so ... Now? I don't know where we stand with Germany and it's closest friends..since the NSA seems to burn just about everyone on Earth equally. (sigh)

Cant be just the spying as the UK neck deep in it with the USA. But the UK havent had much flak from germany over it. Not yet anyway.

Wrabbit2000
Then we come to France.. a nation that OPENLY and ACTIVELY worked against our nation in 2002/2003. It wasn't enough to say they didn't agree with Iraq...they needed to move around the world behind us, actively working to change minds against us.

Funny how the UK avoided the Flak on that too isnt it?. UK should be held just as acountable as the USA for that mess i. Cant really blame france as they were likley doing the right thing.

There seems to be some double standards going on. USA is now viewed as toxic and the UK who have gone along with them has come out stronger. I think its down to economics. We all know the USD is a bomb waiting to go off. It why the worlds is backing away like the USA infected and dying. British GCHQ spying? Who cares (Germanys likley saying) we are bring in the cash at the moment. USA NSA spying evil.

reply to post by crazyewok


That's an odd twist to this whole thing. GCHQ is as guilty as sin and as deep in with the NSA as anyone in the world ...but they have, largely, gotten a pass. Then again, U.S. media isn't having hard drives destroyed by government agents in blatant ways right in their own news organization buildings. I imagine that has a powerful chilling effect on English news reporting of the really deep and touchy stuff. The US seems to have a real zeal for exposing it's own worst things to public ridicule, and not necessarily to change anything ...just to throw it out there and feel bad about. That makes quite a difference too, for England getting a pass and the NSA getting burned at the stake.

In terms of France and 2002/2003? They may well have been doing the right thing, in hindsight. Perhaps if they KNEW the nations lining up against Iraq were flat wrong and based on nothing valid, they could have even pushed a bit harder but in different ways.

It wouldn't have hurt, I think, if France hadn't been an ally at the time, while working openly and directly against US interests at the time. Allies didn't used to do that to each other like a spectator sport....although, I suppose these days, it's become the norm and no one even sees an issue about it at this stage. It's all fallen SO far...