You Can't Die

"There is no death, only a change of worlds" - Chief Seattle

17. The proof is the logical pattern in the oscillating fractal temporally mirrored realities through all of life, from our remembered past and assumed future to our real present.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by MemeticHarvest

 

17. The proof is the logical pattern in the oscillating fractal temporally mirrored realities through all of life, from our remembered past and assumed future to our real present.

Since this is your proof can you word it so it's more accessible to the average bloke

I will try my best. Use your imagination to create this thought experiment.

Imagine in the future scientists develop an internet supercomputer which they think can predict the future. For simplicities sake lets assume this computer is binary and only gives yes or no answers to the questions they input. They would test the computer's legitimacy by testing it with the scientific method. So once they trust the computer, once they really believe in the computer, they ask it very serious, 'should we do this' and 'is this history true?' kind of questions. The computer tells them things that create moral disagreement, some of the scientists believe there must be some human error in the coding, and branch off from the original computer and create their own computer. The cycle repeats so that they create scientific denominations. Each denomination believes their computer's communication to be the truth, because they were satisfied in the amount of prophecies that the computer accurately predicted and came to pass. The computers are like the oracle in the matrix movie, telling the observer not what the observer wants to hear, but rather what the observer needs to hear.

Now lets mirror this assumed future onto our assumed remembered past.

Imagine in the past humans developed a technique to connect to a spirit which they think can prophecy the future. For simplicities sake lets assume this spiritual connection is binary and only gives yes or no answers to the questions they feel. They would test the communication's legitimacy by testing it with their intuition and pattern recognition. So once they trust the communication, once they really believe in the communication, they ask it very serious, 'should we do this' and 'is this history true?' kind of questions. The spiritual communication tells them things that create moral disagreement, some of the humans believe there must be some human lies in the divine communication, and branch off from the spiritual communication and create their own spiritual communication. The cycle repeats so that they create spiritual denominations. Each denomination believes their spirit's communication to be the truth, because they were satisfied in the amount of prophecies that the communication accurately predicted and came to pass. The spiritual communications are like the oracle in the matrix movie, telling the observer not what the observer wants to hear, but rather what the observer needs to hear.

Does this clarify what I was trying to communicate?

reply to post by MemeticHarvest


another awesome post!

thanks MemeticHarvest!

peace.

Visitor2012

Kashai
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

To be truly infinite one must also be finite.

Any thoughts?

Rubbish.

This is a philosophy forum in which case what you are presenting is Rubbish...Grow up

Any thoughts?

reply to post by mysterioustranger


Every body dies. But we don't. We are not our bodies.

What are we....

in one thing the old cultures and their mystic parts are right: we are no object...


If we were -consciousness would not be possible......



“Only an object can suffer, but phenomenally subject and object, being one whole, spin like a coin so that the intervals between pile et face (heads and tails) are imperceptible. Consequently pain, or pleasure, appear to be continual.

Noumenally, on the contrary, there is no object to suffer pain or pleasure. Noumenon is invulnerable, and cannot be otherwise. Noumenon is the unmanifested aspect of what we, sentient beings, are: Phenomenon is our manifestation.”
― Wei Wu Wei

You should read some of this stuff.......

Suzanne Segal...........Her Enlightenment Experience

thetruthaboutlifeip.com...

The personal self was gone, yet here was a body and a mind that still existed empty of anyone who occupied them. The experience of living without a personal identity, without an experience of being somebody, an I or a me, is exceedingly difficult to describe, but it is absolutely unmistakable. It can't be confused with having a bad day or coming down with the flu or feeling upset or angry or spaced out. When the personal self disappears, there is no one inside who can be located as being you. The body is only an outline, empty of everything of which it had previously felt so full. The mind, body, and emotions no longer referred to anyone - there was no one who thought, no one who felt, no one who perceived. Yet the mind, body, and emotions continued to function unimpaired; apparently they did not need an I to keep doing what they always did. Thinking, feeling, perceiving, speaking, all continued as before, functioning with a smoothness that gave no indication of the emptiness behind them. No one suspected that such a radical change had occurred. All conversations were carried on as before; language was employed in the same manner. Questions could be asked and answered, cars driven, meals cooked, books read, phones answered, and letters written. Everything appeared completely normal from the outside, as if the same old Suzanne was going about her life as she always had. In an attempt to understand what had occurred, the mind began working overtime, generating endless questions, all unanswerable. Who thought? Who felt? Who was afraid? Who were people talking to when they spoke to me? Who were they looking at? Why was there a reflection in the mirror, since there was no one there? Why did these eyes open in the morning? Why did this body continue? Who was living? Life became one long, unbroken koan, forever unsolvable, forever mysterious, completely out of reach of the mind's capacity to comprehend.

Margot Rider...............Enlightenment Experience

www.thegreatestlieeverbelieved.com...

It was beginning of December of 2005, and I was preparing for a weekend workshop that was to start the very next day. For days already, I had been feeling that I did not want to hold the workshop. Something was not right. Some pressure in my body that would not let up and at times would get unbearable kept bringing my attention to my weekend workshop and how I did not want to facilitate it. But why not? I had no logical answer. And without one, I could not cancel the workshop. I could not let all those people down who were counting on me to do healing work with them. So, I applied the good old grin-and-bear method, hoping that I would be fine the next day. Then, at around 5 pm, out of the blue, I was hit with a flash-knowing. I was sitting on the floor, going over some paper work, when the flash-knowing came out of nowhere like a lightening bolt. It was not a physical experience at all. The best description I can give is that it was a knowing that came in a flash because I suddenly knew something that I hadn't known a moment ago. All thinking stopped in its tracks. Totally baffled I sat motionless, allowing the knowing to ripple through my being. An event like that can have such an impact that it can change your life forever. That's what happened to me. From that moment on, I would never be the same. The flash-knowing lasted only an instant but the knowing that came with it was vast and profound. I could never have come to it via studying, researching, contemplating or rational deducting. Suddenly I knew that there was nothing to us human beings. Our bodies were hollow and empty. There was no substance, no solidity to us. No actual being or entity was part of the body that we were all assuming we were. The body was void of anyone being home. A seeming corpse only, like that of a doll. The body did not belong to anybody. It had no owner, no driver, no orchestrator or manipulator - as in a self or an I. It was the strangest thing. I saw that human beings were somehow like puppets in a puppet show, walking/talking shells, empty, see-through characters in a play. I also saw that I would never be able to truly help a person with my healing work because I was working on the level of the soul, which is the level of the personal self or I. That was the level of human drama. The soul was nothing sacred and divine as I had believed it to be. I suddenly saw it as a mere memory bank that contained all info pertaining to humanity's collective story. Problems were built-into it, were a given there. A problem-free existence, at that level, was not possible. It was clear that as long as I was working on that level, I could not ever truly make a difference in a person's life - not the way I had always wanted to in the depth of my being. Essentially, I knew that I was taking people in circles with my healing work. As soon as one issue or problem was solved, another one would pop up in a week, a month or a year. It was inevitable. I also knew that this was the case with all other healing work as well. All healers, doctors, therapists and helping professionals were not making a difference in people's lives. I saw us all as blind who were leading the blind. We were all only treading water, going nowhere, all the while thinking we were so great with what we were doing. But in truth, we were doing nothing at all. I realized that when I worked on the level of the soul, the individual, the I - and was dealing with a person's particular family issue or struggle - I was in actuality dealing with something like a puppet in a puppet play. Of course, this made absolutely no logical sense. These were people, human beings, for goodness' sake, that the flash-knowing had somehow reduced to inanimate objects. I absolutely knew that these were people with seriously painful circumstances and difficult lives. Yet, I could not shake off what I suddenly knew as not being true either. As far fetched and unbelievable as it all seemed, I knew it was true. Deep down inside I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt it was true. But what was I to do with this?

We all have a higher mental body and an Etheric body that connects us to our divinity. Any disruption in the vibration and energy balance caused by negative thoughts or feelings with these bodies, will manifest a some dis-ease in our physical body. We must alsoclear our Karmic debt from past embodiments. It's all connected. We are immortal.

Phage

mysterioustranger
reply to post by MemeticHarvest

 

If we can't die...then we were never born either...we just ARE....

Are...what?

ARE as in being.
Being has no (necessary) attributes outside itself.
I am surprised at this question, frankly.

P.S. The above does not imply (necessarily) that I am of the same opinion with the OP or the one you're replying to.

Very Long winded way of talking about the Quantum immortality theory.

The theory goes something like this.

Quantum suicide thought experiment

Unlike the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment which used poison gas and a radioactive decay trigger, this version involves a life-terminating device and a device that measures the spin value of protons. Every 10 seconds, the spin value of a fresh proton is measured.

Conditioned upon that quantum bit, the weapon is either deployed, killing the experimenter, or it makes an audible "click" and the experimenter survives.

The theories are distinctive from the point of view of the experimenter only; their predictions are otherwise identical.

The probability of surviving the first iteration of the experiment is 50%, under both interpretations, as given by the squared norm of the wave function. At the start of the second iteration, if the Copenhagen interpretation is true, the wave function has already collapsed, so if the experimenter is already dead, there's a 0% chance of survival.

However, if the many-worlds interpretation is true, a superposition of the live experimenter necessarily exists, regardless of how many iterations or how improbable the outcome. Barring life after death, it is not possible for the experimenter to experience having been killed, thus the only possible experience is one of having survived every iteration

Source: - Quantum suicide and immortality

Peace,

Korg.

It's a great Thread ! Thank you for starting it . The theory is extremely interesting and echoes of Nietzsche's "Eternal Recurrance"
(Eternal Return ) also discussed by Heinrich Heine - myweb.lmu.edu...

Also, besides the Quantum Immortality Theory , a similar theory is presented in depth by Anthony Peake in his books especially in his " Is there Life After Death? The Extraordinary Science of What Happens When We Die " anthonypeake.com...

I think these theories are very close to understanding what actually does occur (and reoccur ) at so called "death" . Which I agree, doesn't happen the way most think (based on some rather "interesting" experiences I've had personally )

reply to post by MemeticHarvest


Very interesting hypothesis and very similar to many of my own beliefs!
The only thing you didn't talk about is the source of living conscience
energy which we will all return to and be reborn from through each of
our many lifetimes and in many different dimensions! Though we can
call this Heaven, Nirvana, Elysium, Shangri-la, Utopia, Zion, ETC but it's
all the same and is just a place of transition!
In physics we know that nothing ever dies but only transitions from matter
to energy and back to matter this is the same premise I believe takes place!
As for the multiverse we are just intricate parts and related to every aspect
of the material world! There is no going beyond the realm of the physical
universe because of the relationship of matter, space, time and energy!
None of these can exist independently because they all are dependent!
I can go on and on about these universal truths but I don't have the time
right now! I Look forward to reading more! Have a good one!

Ribidus
I've known this since before I was born.

This^^^-I don't think that consciousness ever ends. But that is just me. I just cannot wrap my head around the prospect that consciousness or "THIS" ends. It may change and evolve or be flipped on its head but I don't see that it ever ends. It just goes from one to the next and back again.

Perhaps.

Visitor2012

Phage

mysterioustranger
reply to post by MemeticHarvest

 

If we can't die...then we were never born either...we just ARE....

Are...what?

Immortal ......

I have inside me blood of kings.

Stop messing with my head! i can't be bothered to reflect on the theory of your post, since i am still at a loss to answer questions which are much deeper and much more perplexing, such as, why are the kardashians on my tv screen, and what's the point of trying to understand why my cat TALKS ALL NIGHT LONG, but only on tuesday nights? or even more sinister, is there ANYPLACE in the known Universe where you can finish this sentence "Real Houswives of ..." and still not end up with a passel of idiots? or why there are only 8 hot dog buns in the bag, yet 10 hot dogs in the package? huh? HUH?, yeah I thought so. Conspiracy. it's what you get when you have more than 1 angry monkey in the room !

Phage

mysterioustranger
reply to post by MemeticHarvest

 

If we can't die...then we were never born either...we just ARE....

Are...what?

Is it even possible to get stars for a post like that??

The post you replied to is far deeper than the single line of text that represents it..... It points to concepts of duality and oneness.

Peace,

Korg.

In relation to many worlds hypothesis and multiverse theory. A referent is in relation to the potential of consciousness to transcend separateness inherent physically, in such modeling.

Implied is another point of view related to such a construct as a whole.

It is to present that each impression of separateness is alike to a facet in a Diamond.

Any thoughts?

tencap77
Stop messing with my head! i can't be bothered to reflect on the theory of your post, since i am still at a loss to answer questions which are much deeper and much more perplexing, such as, why are the kardashians on my tv screen, and what's the point of trying to understand why my cat TALKS ALL NIGHT LONG, but only on tuesday nights? or even more sinister, is there ANYPLACE in the known Universe where you can finish this sentence "Real Houswives of ..." and still not end up with a passel of idiots? or why there are only 8 hot dog buns in the bag, yet 10 hot dogs in the package? huh? HUH?, yeah I thought so. Conspiracy. it's what you get when you have more than 1 angry monkey in the room !

I'm curious. You don't have to answer but I'm gonna ask it anyway.

Why do you watch people trapped inside of an electromagnetic box? You watch the beastly beast (television) but seem to not like what it shows you. Why don't you stop looking at it?

p.s.

Do you microwave your hotdogs?

"All that we see or seem to be, is but a dream within a dream" -Edgar Allen Poe

Kashai
In relation to many worlds hypothesis and multiverse theory. A referent is in relation to the potential of consciousness to transcend separateness inherent physically, in such modeling.

Implied is another point of view related to such a construct as a whole.

It is to present that each impression of separateness is alike to a facet in a Diamond.

Any thoughts?

edit on 12-2-2014 by Kashai because: Added content

I believe there is only one Universe. I think human beings have lost their mind and have no idea how wrong they are in thinking there is more than one Universe. The Universe isn't a cell, it doesn't split and start multiplying itself. There's only one Universe.

But I do have a replica Earth theory. It makes a lot of sense, to me. If it isn't a theory, it's an awesome sci-fi fantasy waiting to be born and brought to life on the silver screen.

It's quick and easy to tell: the anagram of Earth is Heart. At the Heart of every galaxy is an Earth. Now imagine ONE Universe, filled with galaxies. And in each galaxy is an Earth. We die on one Earth but wake up on a replica.

I imagine other bright minds in the world have had a similar concept, if not the same exact concept. Oh, and...

the Universe is a dark place. When we get it all right, the Universe will become all Light. No darkness, No sleep and endless life...