Secret Connections: LDS Church and the American Intelligence Community

reply to post by seasoul


That's also an interesting perspective, but I am not willing to give it any credibility until I can look at the facts involved.

Do you have an opinion on the LDS connection to intelligence agencies as I have presented?

reply to post by sheepslayer247


OK, lets reverse it. The C.I.A. probably uses members of all of the above. Add in reporters, other country's agents,(turned) on and on. There's probably more traditional Christian connections to the C.I.A., if for no other reason than that's the major religion of the U.S..

Dig deep enough and everything is connected to everything else.

I'm not attempting to debunk here and respect the work you've put into this.

The title of your thread caught my attention for some unknown reason.

I guess I'm just really tired of all the conspiracies. Sorry for butting in.

sheepslayer247
reply to post by seasoul

 

That's also an interesting perspective, but I am not willing to give it any credibility until I can look at the facts involved.

Do you have an opinion on the LDS connection to intelligence agencies as I have presented?

IMO, all governments as-well-as all fundamentalist ideologies serve a common purpose, that is to enslave the body, mind, and spirit of humanity -- ensuring that mankind remains ignorant, ineffectual, and unaware of the omnipotent cosmic truths and universal laws.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


I don't see a conspiracy I see factual data. There is a parallelism of interests and it is only normal that it is exploited by secretive organizations. One important characteristic of a good agent is that it is resistant to be compromised, this simple fact of stoicism that is imbued in this type of cult serves as a hardening of moral guidelines that is very interesting to those that seek to preserve secrets and keep strict obedience.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


My Friend,

I think that anyone who does not understand the connection/benefits/probability that the intelligence community has/provides/uses with missionaries of all faiths, either cares little for conspiracy or lives under a rock.

Benefits:

1. Missionaries have normally unfettered access to many places around the globe where others may encounter difficulties.

2. As a rule, the general populace trusts religious representatives. (Before it gets flamed.. NOT all but definitely the majority)
----------a. Even here in the United States the largest single voting group is the middle age, middle class, Christian right.

3. Some of the jobs missionaries are involved in require them to associate with the very individuals that would have information useful to Intel.

Problems:

1. The core foundation of many religions require a level of trust that a missionary working for or with an intelligence agency would need to violate or at the least compromise.

2. The nature of certain countries preclude any guarantee of safety for members of certain religions that go against the national policies of those countries.

3. Most professional intelligence operatives are highly trained. That takes years of commitment from the individual and would perhaps work against their assuming a missionary role successfully.

Now looking at all of that, it is still a very interesting concept and without a doubt certain intelligence communities use missionaries. Heck it is even portrayed in films, Chuck Norris' film "Delta Force" used such a character.

I can see the benefits for the Intel community but the dangers for the operative would be incredible especially in countries that either outlaw certain religions or religion all together.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


SS,
Had one other thought.....
we buy parts for our business from China (I know, I know)....but we only use Americans who have businesses over in China....
guess who is one of the biggest "groups" of Americans to own businesses in China that supply businesses in America?

You guessed it....the Mormons. Many of them speak Mandarin and they have huge housing complexes (complete cities with stores and schools etc) that are gated off from the general population over there.

It was a conscious decision for them to get involved in the China corporate build up.

Could this just be because they are business savvy or..... a way to have agents inside China?

Again....just a thought

reply to post by seasoul


Brother Nathanael? Seriously?

That guy was exposed as a disinfo agent a long time ago.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


i thought it was L SD church.
then i realize its LDS

peace

reply to post by sheepslayer247


While reading your thread I remembered something I had read and found it strange ..I just wanted to share it .."In an article found in Covering Sacred Ground, by Kelly Boyce, Mormons (members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) who live permanently in Israel are given a voice. Ann Hansen, who contributed the articles on the Nazi camps found on this website, has lived most of her adult life in Israel with her husband Michael and their children. She is quoted in the article in reference to the signed agreement by students at the Jerusalem Center for Near Eastern Studies not to proselytize in Israel: “…all members who live here permanently or temporarily, or are even visiting, have been asked by Church Headquarters to abide by what is written in the agreement.” mormonsandjews.com...

This is a link to some more on that connection www.jcpa.org...

This is another little tid bit ... "Behind a carefully constructed image of friendship for Israel and Jews, the Mormon church has been covertly courting and financing Arab propaganda organizations and pro-PLO support groups, both in its Utah and Israel-based teaching centers, and actively engaging in missionary work in Israel, despite public assurances that no such activities were carried out or contemplated. For the Mormons, these are pragmatic measures; for Israel they mean trouble." saintsalive.com...

This is interesting connection.
I can add something strage too from my country.
Some time ago I discovered an article from the year 1997 in Estonian newspaper, that said, that Mormons have been copied a large part of Estonian family archives, but noone knows how they use this data in America. It´s just too strange. Especially, that Estonia was a part of Soviet Union back then (80s) - and mormons had a contract with Soviet Union´s Ministry of Justice. Why should this ministry make contract to some American mormons? Basicly letting Americans to copy Soviet Union´s people archives. I don´t think it´s just that they wanted to babtise them. And even if they did, they have no right to collect data for this.
Soviet Union didn´t approve any religion and they most certainly disliked all that came from America. But it seems that behind closed doors things were different.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


I forget which books but in 2 or 3 of Tom Clancy's books he talks about Intel Officers working tightly with certain members of the clergy and various religions. I havent read your who set up yet I just want to post so I know where to return to but I bet Intel Officers have their hands in everything...I know I would If it was my show.

reply to post by sheepslayer247



I use the LDS for genealogy research, the people appear sincere in their beliefs. I do think it would be worrisome if the NSA was collecting genealogical data on people. Imagine a world where individuals and entire families could be targeted by the government. However most people have their trees available online anyways.

Pink Panther
reply to post by sheepslayer247

 

I use the LDS for genealogy research, the people appear sincere in their beliefs. I do think it would be worrisome if the NSA was collecting genealogical data on people. Imagine a world where individuals and entire families could be targeted by the government. However most people have their trees available online anyways.

I was going to mention the genealogy - it seems the LDS has one of the most exhaustive source libraries on it. Why would they? It certainly makes much more sense in the context of providing intel to government under the guise of the church.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

I was going to mention the genealogy - it seems the LDS has one of the most exhaustive source libraries on it. Why would they?

Not sure....but I know I've accessed their database, and even contributed to 'transcribing' (digitizing) old census records for use on the 'net.

I got a lot of info from their library to do my own family geneaology.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

I was going to mention the genealogy - it seems the LDS has one of the most exhaustive source libraries on it. Why would they?

Because they believe in "baptism after the fact."

If you become Mormon, and are a member in good standing, with Temple rights (mostly, it means that you're married and donate 10% of your income to the church -- and they audit, lol) you can go into the Temple and have all of your known ancestors baptized into the Mormon faith. Whether they like it or not.

That's why they're so into genealogy.

Another way to look at it would be this:

It is known that the KGB used the Eastern Orthodox church during the Soviet period in Russia. No, the church was never legally allowed, but it was useful to use them nonetheless. As someone mentioned, religion gives hope and can inspire people not to be rebellious as much as it can make them trouble makers. It also organizes and creates groupings that are easy to keep tabs on. So, the KGB infiltrated them.

What if the Mormons are more or less sincere and the intel agencies are more or less using them in the same way the KGB used the Eastern Orthodox Church? As has been mentioned, they go a lot of places and have a lot of access and a lot of information.

reply to post by adjensen


It funny, because I have heard many people say that the LDS Church does audit it's members, but the church itself claims the opposite.

On the topic of baptism, I believe there was a big stink made in the media when Mitt Romney's father-in-law was baptized into the Mormon church......after he had passed. The problem was that his father-in-law was an out-spoken atheist.

reply to post by Snarl

If you've been 'tainted' by one you are forever excluded from the other ... unless, of course, you lie.

I absolutely loved that last sentence brother Snarl. Especially the part after the ellipsis.

Snorted my coffee all over my keyboard.

Good thing this is a "toughbook" of sorts...

adjensen
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

I was going to mention the genealogy - it seems the LDS has one of the most exhaustive source libraries on it. Why would they?

Because they believe in "baptism after the fact."

If you become Mormon, and are a member in good standing, with Temple rights (mostly, it means that you're married and donate 10% of your income to the church -- and they audit, lol) you can go into the Temple and have all of your known ancestors baptized into the Mormon faith. Whether they like it or not.

That's why they're so into genealogy.

Apparently that's not all they do!
Among my mother's 'Mormon' papers were two that still pi$$es me off still to this day!

My grandparents enjoyed over 60 years of marriage, and were deeply involved in the Methodist church all their lives. My mother had them 'baptized' in the Mormon church, AND had their marriage 'consecrated'! WHAT THE HECK!

Not only that, she had my first marriage, to an abusive 'human' ( ? rest his soul) consecrated!!!
She thought she had the power, through the church, to decide who I would spend eternity with
I've already lived in hell with 'him' on this planet; why would I want to spend my eternity in hell with 'him'?
ALL organized religions reek of 'cult' to me.

Sorry; this should probably be in the 'Rant' forum.

reply to post by semperfortis


Thanks for adding your take on this topic, Semp.

I was thinking about your comment that operatives are highly-trained and the time it takes to achieve those skills.

The most important thing the intelligence agencies need is information, correct? If an operative's main task is to gather information and pass it along to their agency contacts, would they really need extensive training?