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stormbringer1701
JohnnySasaki
Really, the only way we're going to get there is with the warp drive. Space isn't completely empty, and hitting space dust at even a small fraction of the speed of light would be catastrophic. Basically, there would be a lot more space dust, lol. What's more, at that speed, you'd have no way of spotting the obstacle, and even if you did, you'd have no chance of getting out of the way without MASSIVE amounts of G forces. With the warp drive, the space moves, not you. I don't understand the physics of it 100%, obviously, but I believe it means you wouldn't have to worry much about hitting anything on the way. Plus, it allows for much faster than light travel. It would only take a few days or weeks at warp 10 to reach Alpha Centari.
I know warp drives sound like science fiction, and for now it still is, but I'm sure most of you know they're actually working on it as we speak. They believe it is theoretically possible, and at our current rate of technological advancement we should most likely have a working warp drive in the next couple decades. I know that sounds quite soon, but think in terms of exponential growth instead of linear growth. Remember, Ray Kurzweil and other well known futurists predict the technological singularity will occur sometime around 2030-2045. The mean is around 2040.
actually think about it dust motes at relativistic speed are the equivalent of a rifle bullet. dust motes make 99.999999999 percent of all objects in space other than molecules and atoms or ions. a relativistic ship can expect 1 impact per square meter of the front facing portion of the ship per day. 30 meter cross section equals 30 impacts per day. rifle bullets against flesh is pretty catastrophic. but against either a wiffle shield or a block of tungsten or whatever it's no big deal. a wiffle shield is well understood. it is already used to protect the ISS and other space missions.
really the things we need better protective technology for are the much rarer but more problematic larger impactors. actually even grain sized ones can be stopped by the above methods. then you get into trouble. you need more active protection. ablatives like an km long ice column. shear thickening fluid (similar to corn starch) tanks, optronically steered lasers, electrostatic fields, plasma clouds, or just put your molten spray type radiator on the front end of the ship. and for bigger ones you can see coming faster you can divert by pitting them with a laser or making a micro course adjustment. it doesn't take much to avoid something several hundred kilometers away.
and though it has a high giggle factor NASA is actually doing some preliminary grunt work on Warp drive with Dr Harold White.
CynicalDrivel
reply to post by Mamatus
Damn, we're going to have to move quickly. Women are alleging he's got kids already: Here.
reply to post by JohnnySasaki
Hrm, would have to look at the last 10-14 years to see if they fit those graphs--especially for computing. Suspect that the mapped curve for it is not what's actually going to happen. Probably closer to some sort of sine curve, or a piecemeal one made of the existing on and a square root x one for the rest when we hit the wall of what is physically possible...
stormbringer1701
stuff approximately grain sized or smaller can be handled electrostatically by using a laser or plasma field to induce a charge on it and a field to push it away. this would be similar to an m2p2, or a bussard ramscoop, magnetic funnel.
or for you old timers; similar to what a CRT screen does to dust but in reverse.edit on 29-1-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)
JohnnySasaki
stormbringer1701
stuff approximately grain sized or smaller can be handled electrostatically by using a laser or plasma field to induce a charge on it and a field to push it away. this would be similar to an m2p2, or a bussard ramscoop, magnetic funnel.
or for you old timers; similar to what a CRT screen does to dust but in reverse.edit on 29-1-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)
Even if it is possible, why? Why would you go through all that trouble (and danger), when you could just devote some more time to developing a warp drive? In addition to actually being able to surpass light speed (some say by even 10 times or more), I believe it also works around the time dilation as well. So if you took a round trip, thousands of years won't have passed here on earth.
Also, I'm pretty sure you could also use it to travel through time.edit on 29-1-2014 by JohnnySasaki because: (no reason given)
JohnnySasaki
stormbringer1701
stuff approximately grain sized or smaller can be handled electrostatically by using a laser or plasma field to induce a charge on it and a field to push it away. this would be similar to an m2p2, or a bussard ramscoop, magnetic funnel.
or for you old timers; similar to what a CRT screen does to dust but in reverse.edit on 29-1-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)
Even if it is possible, why? Why would you go through all that trouble (and danger), when you could just devote some more time to developing a warp drive? In addition to actually being able to surpass light speed (some say by even 10 times or more), I believe it also works around the time dilation as well. So if you took a round trip, thousands of years won't have passed here on earth.
Also, I'm pretty sure you could also use it to travel through time.edit on 29-1-2014 by JohnnySasaki because: (no reason given)
stormbringer1701
and a probe or expedition can do science all the way there. it's not just about the destination. planetary science on the way out of the solar system, characterizing our technological signature from deep space as you go, characterize and survey the Oort cloud. look for rogues and dwarves, James Webbing the stars all the way. hit proxima, AC a and AC b with a fleet of drop off probes. those three are basically in line and roughly .1 ly from each other.edit on 29-1-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)
JohnnySasaki
stormbringer1701
JohnnySasaki
Really, the only way we're going to get there is with the warp drive. Space isn't completely empty, and hitting space dust at even a small fraction of the speed of light would be catastrophic. Basically, there would be a lot more space dust, lol. What's more, at that speed, you'd have no way of spotting the obstacle, and even if you did, you'd have no chance of getting out of the way without MASSIVE amounts of G forces. With the warp drive, the space moves, not you. I don't understand the physics of it 100%, obviously, but I believe it means you wouldn't have to worry much about hitting anything on the way. Plus, it allows for much faster than light travel. It would only take a few days or weeks at warp 10 to reach Alpha Centari.
I know warp drives sound like science fiction, and for now it still is, but I'm sure most of you know they're actually working on it as we speak. They believe it is theoretically possible, and at our current rate of technological advancement we should most likely have a working warp drive in the next couple decades. I know that sounds quite soon, but think in terms of exponential growth instead of linear growth. Remember, Ray Kurzweil and other well known futurists predict the technological singularity will occur sometime around 2030-2045. The mean is around 2040.
actually think about it dust motes at relativistic speed are the equivalent of a rifle bullet. dust motes make 99.999999999 percent of all objects in space other than molecules and atoms or ions. a relativistic ship can expect 1 impact per square meter of the front facing portion of the ship per day. 30 meter cross section equals 30 impacts per day. rifle bullets against flesh is pretty catastrophic. but against either a wiffle shield or a block of tungsten or whatever it's no big deal. a wiffle shield is well understood. it is already used to protect the ISS and other space missions.
really the things we need better protective technology for are the much rarer but more problematic larger impactors. actually even grain sized ones can be stopped by the above methods. then you get into trouble. you need more active protection. ablatives like an km long ice column. shear thickening fluid (similar to corn starch) tanks, optronically steered lasers, electrostatic fields, plasma clouds, or just put your molten spray type radiator on the front end of the ship. and for bigger ones you can see coming faster you can divert by pitting them with a laser or making a micro course adjustment. it doesn't take much to avoid something several hundred kilometers away.
and though it has a high giggle factor NASA is actually doing some preliminary grunt work on Warp drive with Dr Harold White.
It doesn't take much to avoid something a couple hundred kilometers away when you're only going like Mach 20, but when you start to get into significant fractions of the speed of light, it takes quite a lot. Think about it, light travels at 186 thousand miles a second. What's more, a spec of dust might only be the equivalent of a bullet impact (that's still quite a lot btw, especially when you have a couple to a couple thousand of them a day), but what about an impact of something the size of a pebble or bigger?
How are you going to see a pebble a couple hundred thousand miles away, and even if you did, traveling at 186 thousand miles a second, how are you going to have time to get out of the way?
Even if you could, the G forces would rip you and your spaceship apart anyway.
Also, everything get's extremely distorted when traveling at close to or at the speed of light, so I'd doubt you even be able to see where you were going.
JadeStar
stormbringer1701
and a probe or expedition can do science all the way there. it's not just about the destination. planetary science on the way out of the solar system, characterizing our technological signature from deep space as you go, characterize and survey the Oort cloud. look for rogues and dwarves, James Webbing the stars all the way. hit proxima, AC a and AC b with a fleet of drop off probes. those three are basically in line and roughly .1 ly from each other.edit on 29-1-2014 by stormbringer1701 because: (no reason given)
And drop off a couple space telescopes (Optical/IR and Radio) as well as a communications relay at the Sun's gravitational lens around 550-1000 AU out.
Blue Shift
I'll bet a dollar that we don't make it out of our own Solar System before we either give it all up to the androids or modify ourselves genetically to such an extent that we can no longer consider ourselves human. That gives us about 1,000 years, tops.
crazyewok
Blue Shift
I'll bet a dollar that we don't make it out of our own Solar System before we either give it all up to the androids or modify ourselves genetically to such an extent that we can no longer consider ourselves human. That gives us about 1,000 years, tops.
You do know nuclear pulse propulsion (which most physicists agree would work) could get us there in 100 years? And that was 60 years ago. Fusion pulse which is a very real possibility could get us there in half that time?
crazyewok
Blue Shift
I'll bet a dollar that we don't make it out of our own Solar System before we either give it all up to the androids or modify ourselves genetically to such an extent that we can no longer consider ourselves human. That gives us about 1,000 years, tops.
You do know nuclear pulse propulsion (which most physicists agree would work) could get us there in 100 years? And that was 60 years ago. Fusion pulse which is a very real possibility could get us there in half that time?
crazyewok
Blue Shift
I'll bet a dollar that we don't make it out of our own Solar System before we either give it all up to the androids or modify ourselves genetically to such an extent that we can no longer consider ourselves human. That gives us about 1,000 years, tops.
You do know nuclear pulse propulsion (which most physicists agree would work) could get us there in 100 years? And that was 60 years ago. Fusion pulse which is a very real possibility could get us there in half that time?
Soylent Green Is People
crazyewok
Blue Shift
I'll bet a dollar that we don't make it out of our own Solar System before we either give it all up to the androids or modify ourselves genetically to such an extent that we can no longer consider ourselves human. That gives us about 1,000 years, tops.
You do know nuclear pulse propulsion (which most physicists agree would work) could get us there in 100 years? And that was 60 years ago. Fusion pulse which is a very real possibility could get us there in half that time?
Does this include both acceleration and deceleration times?
Acceleration up to cruising speed cannot be done too quickly, because humans would not be able to withstand the g-forces, nor can the ship decelerate quickly (for the same reason). That means a slow-enough acceleration time and a gentle-enough deceleration time would need to be built into any calculation for how long it will take to get there.
...of course, if we had a sci-fi style "inertial damper" or "anti-grav", that would change things...But we don't.