Atlanta mayor blames poor coordination for storm snafu

reply to post by alltogethernow


No offense, but I find it quite funny to a degree. I wish no harm to anyone, but if you are not prepared due to ignorance of the past history. That's on you.

It's happened before and it'll happen again.

I gotta say the people have mainly themselves to blame here. I know on the weather channel they have been talking for days that the areas were gonna get hit with snow/ice. These people should not have been out driving if their skills are not up to par. Just no excuse here really, it's not like the storm just appeared out of nowhere. And for the kids that got stuck, thank their parents for not keeping them home and "Oh my god missing a day of screwell". Up here it's been minus 25 -30 for a few days now, schools were canceled but some schools were out of snow days so they said at the parents discretion they will be running buses, choice is up to parents.

reply to post by ketsuko


On a steep hill on a solid sheet of ice your hyundai accent would have gone nowhere once traffic caused you to stop on the hill!!

reply to post by alltogethernow


The answer to that is....and I've done it before.

"If you don't like the way I drive...GET OFF THE SIDEWALK!" LOL

reply to post by TDawgRex


I find the word pitiful more appropriate.
2nd line

reply to post by alltogethernow


And in icy conditions, I modify the route I take. And if the conditions are such that it's likely to be or become icy, I modify the route I take.

Sounds to me like everyone left when the precip started falling, if you didn't plan for what could happen, whose fault is that?

And I have been stuck in massive, weather-caused traffic backups before, twice, but blaming them on people not having snow chains and tires isn't going to change it. It's the people doing the driving. If they had those things, there would still be the backups. I know because when I was caught in those backups ... it was the ones with the big ole 4x4 four wheel drives who caused the most disruptions. They drove like they thought they had a get out of weather-related road conditions card and caused the backups for the rest of us.

reply to post by Nyiah


Yeah, they knew it was coming, yet they all said "hey, it won't be that bad."
You're right, this is a case of poor preparation mixed with bad weather driving.

reply to post by ketsuko


I had no problem driving in these conditions, as my car was a front wheel drive civic and i was experienced in these conditions But i got lucky and was not forced to stop on an ice covered steep grade. People are ignorant of these types of conditions. I changed my route 10 times that day it did not mater. when ever you got off the nieghborhood streets it was stopped. Everywhere. I mentioned to my employer about the weather, but it was thier call to close or not.

reply to post by ketsuko


No offense, but you're exuding arrogance here. Granted, they had an ice storm 3 years ago, and should have retained a little know-how from it, it's still an area where this isn't the winter norm. Wrap your brain around that a moment before spouting off about handling expertise and route alterations and so forth. Do you not agree that it takes repeated practice in such conditions before you know how to handle your vehicle? I mean, this isn't innate knowledge that just pops forth when needed, you do have to drive in it more than once to have a knack for driving in it. Amirite? Would you still be blathering about how they should know how to drive like you do if this event was in Miami instead?

I'll still point the finger at the citizens for not using common sense, this frozen stuff that fell from the sky and froze to the ground isn't an every day winter thing. Caution should have been used in abundance, being a little wary of how they'd do on the roads would have been a benefit. But acting like a know-it-all based on where you live & have higher accumulations? Doesn't help much.

Point being, it's like a poster above said, a mix of things. Poor choices, inexperience, poor choices.

alltogethernow
reply to post by ketsuko

 

On a steep hill on a solid sheet of ice your hyundai accent would have gone nowhere once traffic caused you to stop on the hill!!

There is more than one method of fixing that.
Its happened to me before I had a truck with 4x4 on it. I just used floor mats, and they gave me enough traction to get up the hill.
Winter driving requires a different mindset. You don't just stop anywhere, you think "ok if I stop here is the incline too steep? Will I be able to get moving again? etc"
IMO winter driving skills are dependent on how smart the driver is.

Also, having a 4x4 means you get better traction, but it doesn't do anything for when you have to brake.

Nyiah
No offense, but you're exuding arrogance here.

I understand your sentiment (we mock Vancouver any time they get 'snow shut down' and we shouldn't), but it is extremely hard to wrap your mind around this kind of grid lock caused by what a lot of us consider very minor weather.

I think we find it as baffling that they can't handle a little snow and ice, as they find it just getting a little snow and ice.

reply to post by Nyiah


I'm responding to the people who are blaming it all on not having specialized weather equipment. For what they got, they don't need it.

They were their own worst enemy, and they should just acknowledge that instead of trying to find some outside factor to blame.

I understand that people in the south don't know the first thing about driving in this weather because they don't get it. I don't expect them to know that. They shouldn't expect to know that, but they should own it instead of blaming everything else.

The fact that people who normally get off work at different hours (3,4,5,6pm) all got off work at the same time(1:00) was a big reason for the snafu. Yes they should have cannceled school, but weather forcasters have been wrong so many times before. It seems people did not believe this time was any different. It was simply unfortunate and a tradgedy for those spending the night in thier cars or isles in the grocery stores.

reply to post by ketsuko


You are right, can`t pass the blame on this one. But lets hpe we learn some lessons here this time. Probably not tho.

Mayor is responsible for ensuring ATL streets weather ready.

State/DOT is responsible for state roads and interstate highways.

By all accounts, this was not sufficiently done. Roads didn't have salt and drivers didn't see DOT or city trucks spreading it. What they did see was salt trucks stuck in gridlock.

Mayor blames citizens and school district, governor blames national weather service.

General Russell Honore of Katrina fame said it best..in a post 9/11, post Katrina world - a coordinated response is required. There was no coordination.

It started to snow at 10am. Gridlock by noon. At 3pm the office of emergency management was still not activated. Governor did not declare a state of emergency until 5 pm...a couple of
hours after roads jammed with drivers started freezing over. National Guard not activated until late night public outcry of desperate parents .

So you all can go on and on about the drivers but they were trying to take care of themselve and, in many cases, their children once Fulton county canceled school transportation with children at school or - worse- midroute.

alltogethernow
reply to post by ketsuko

 

I had no problem driving in these conditions, as my car was a front wheel drive civic and i was experienced in these conditions But i got lucky and was not forced to stop on an ice covered steep grade. People are ignorant of these types of conditions. I changed my route 10 times that day it did not mater. when ever you got off the nieghborhood streets it was stopped. Everywhere. I mentioned to my employer about the weather, but it was thier call to close or not.

I hear you with the whole employer's call thing. My corporate boss pricks made us come in for fear of our jobs. Thankfully I experienced no problems, but the arrogance of those guys gave me a different perspective of the company I work for. They actually called us the night before to tell us that they were reviewing the conditions the night before at around 8:30 pm, told us they would let us know in the morning, so to expect a call at around 5:45 am. Sure enough, 5:38 am I get a text from my district manager that we all have to show up. My fiancee was more angry than I was, talking about suing the company if anything happened to me. Her business was closed. I won't name the company, but I work in pool supplies...yeah...we had one idiot customer in a 10 hour day yesterday. They put me and my co-workers at risk so that I could make them $38. I was so angry. Cost them more to have us there and open than the money they made, but that was a risk they were willing to take...with our lives and wellbeing. To make matters more annoying, they sent us an email saying if we were cigarette smokers, that smoking in this weather can cause pneumonia. Un-FREAKING-believable.

Nyiah
I debated where to put this, but ultimately think it should go here, since it pertains to a major winter storm throwing the South for a loop. If it should have gone in one of the news forums, I apologize, mods.

Some article highlights that I'm sure most northerners are going "WTH!?" over right now:
Atlanta mayor blames poor coordination for storm snafu

A day after some three inches of snow paralyzed the country's ninth-largest city, Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed blamed the resulting gridlock on decisions by schools, business and government to send people home at the same time.

By late morning Wednesday, nearly a day after leaving school in a bus, that frustration was continuing to mount for some Atlanta-area students who had still not reached home. Atlanta Public Schools spokeswoman Kimberly Willis Green said Wednesday that "several hundred students at nine schools" had sheltered in place.

Similar stories unfolded elsewhere in the Deep South, from Louisiana to North Carolina, as snow, freezing rain and sleet laid down a sheet of thin ice in a region unfamiliar with such weather.

Motorists set out for home at the first sight of snow, clotting the streets.

In Atlanta, 940 accidents were confirmed, with more than 100 of them involving injuries, the Georgia public safety commissioner said.

In Alabama, at least five people died Tuesday in weather-related traffic accidents. The governor deployed 350 National Guard troops to help motorists.

Forecasters had warned that Atlanta was expecting 1 to 2 inches. But in the morning, when the snow had not arrived, people went to work and school, like nothing was coming.

Then it did.

At about the same time early Tuesday afternoon, schools, businesses and government offices sent home students and workers as the streets began to ice.

I'm further south than this mess, so we're not dealing with it. But if we had been, most people I know here in FL know better than to go out in this kind of weather, nothing good comes from people trying to drive in winter weather without winter tires or chains, let alone going out in it at all. We know this. Why didn't the states in the middle of it use common sense? It's not like they're completely unfamiliar with snow & ice, they had an ice storm in GA in 2011, you'd think they'd remember it & learn from it.

To our Deep South members, how is it in your neck of the woods? Did people carry on like it was nothing, or did they exercise caution?
Also, if anyone has pictures they'd like to share, this thread is as good a place as any for them

Ice chains?? Snow tires?? I live in Indiana and nobody has chains on their tires. I doubt many people have snow tires, I know I never have. A week or two ago we had over a foot of snow. You know what happened? Nothing. It happens every winter. It blows my mind that a dusting of ice and snow can completely cripple a town/state. There is literally no amount of snow that could fall that would force our kids to sleep overnight in a school. I cannot fathom that ever happening. And to think people are worried about global warming.

I am not going to start an argument about global warming, but rather I will say there is a flip-side to that too involving extreme cooling. That's why I don't like the term global warming, climate change is more appropriate and it's effecting the whole solar system so we aren't necessarily to blame for it in it's entirety.

Couple of points here,

Both the local and state governments failed miserably for not having a plan "B" in place.

Monday afternoon the NWS had a winter weather watch in place which was downgraded to an advisory in the early evening. TV forecasters were minimizing the chances of snow but as usual for them hedging their bets with "but it could happen" At 3:38am Tuesday the NWS upgraded to a winter storm warning.

Unfortunately Local, State, County governments and School districts had made their plan "A" based upon the prior evening forecast which was wrong but had most forecasters saying "depends on how far gulf moisture gets north" or "the snow line cannot be predicted within 50-100 miles accurately" or "you will get a dusting or 2-3 inches"

Seems plan "A" and "B" should have been available - plan "B" being if forecast changed so would response.

In this day and age of instant smart phone alerts and weather radio alerts when warnings are issued by NWS someone, many someone's at all levels of government were fast asleep and unable to flexibly change plans when conditions changed in the early morning hours.

Typical government reaction as far as I'm concerned, slow and very late to the table.

Late being 12 hours behind in taking action to help stranded motorists. Local news was already reporting stranding's as early as 3-4pm yesterday.

Private citizens also share much responsibility as the information was definitely there early Tuesday morning to make personal decisions such as withholding children from school and calling in at jobs - many did just that to their credit.

18 wheel trucks are common and numerous in the Atlanta area as its the prime distribution point for the southeast. After 2011 snow and ice debacle legislation was passed requiring chains on commercial trucks during an ice/snow event - this was not communicated to drivers entering the region negating any benefit - hence most interstate bottlenecks trapping drivers were by jack knifed trucks or trucks that could not negotiate inclines.

I do not blame truckers in this because the word was never put out by government in the first place.

Indicative of politicians words was Mayor Kasim Reeds playing up of 115 people sheltering in fire stations like it was proactive step, media person asked "how many were recued and taken to fire stations" Reeds answer, none, they walked or were dropped off privately.

That answer told me all I needed about the situation.

Ps; to the poster who mentioned conservatives and infrastructure along with a decent political movement - obviously you do not know what demographics of Atlanta are because I can assure you its a bastion of progressive big government liberal thought control.

For comparison use City of New York under Mayor Giuliani and its current Mayors response to snowstorms and its no wonder at all.

rmtfox
I am not going to start an argument about global warming, but rather I will say there is a flip-side to that too involving extreme cooling. That's why I don't like the term global warming, climate change is more appropriate and it's effecting the whole solar system so we aren't necessarily to blame for it in it's entirety.

Atlanta's 69 year historical average snow fall for January is 1". Knowing that they don't get snow yearly (in Atlanta), getting 1-3" every three years, or so, falls right in line with the historical averages.