Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

The GUT

lostgirl
p.s. If you find evidence that Vallee ever sought out initiation into any occult group, I will be happy to eat my words..

Vallee definitely seems to identify with hermetic tradition. I don't think one has to join any organization to lean towards mystery traditions, nor does one have to join an occult group to experience "initiation." I'm sure you understand that 'initiation' in this sense doesn't mean some official ceremony?

Whether "official ceremony" or some other form of initiation, I think that to "join" any group implies seeking out 'entry', desiring to be a member....

I've just never seen any implications of this in any of my reading of Vallee's personal works...and I think we've established that he is not the type to obfuscate the truth...

I think Willtell made an excellent point in relating the relationship between hermeticism and science, a point which underscores the perspective that Vallee can be deeply interested in hermetic tradition simply as a result of his scientific interest in discovering whether there are occult 'connections' to his theory of a paranormal 'source' for ufo phenomena...

And I do know you have a high opinion of Vallee and are just making sure we cover all the bases in discussing him...

lostgirl

The GUT

lostgirl
p.s. If you find evidence that Vallee ever sought out initiation into any occult group, I will be happy to eat my words..

Vallee definitely seems to identify with hermetic tradition. I don't think one has to join any organization to lean towards mystery traditions, nor does one have to join an occult group to experience "initiation." I'm sure you understand that 'initiation' in this sense doesn't mean some official ceremony?

Whether "official ceremony" or some other form of initiation, I think that to "join" any group implies seeking out 'entry', desiring to be a member....

I've just never seen any implications of this in any of my reading of Vallee's personal works...and I think we've established that he is not the type to obfuscate the truth...

I think Willtell made an excellent point in relating the relationship between hermeticism and science, a point which underscores the perspective that Vallee can be deeply interested in hermetic tradition simply as a result of his scientific interest in discovering whether there are occult 'connections' to his theory of a paranormal 'source' for ufo phenomena...

And I do know you have a high opinion of Vallee and are just making sure we cover all the bases in discussing him...

VIctor Turner's The Ritual Process might be worth a look.

The GUT
Wouldn't to "move upstream" against it's own feedback loop--especially taking into account the mention that the phenomenon might be of the collective unconscious--refer, at least partially, to looping information to people?

If so, how?

I find the 'collective unconscious' wholly inadequate, both as a theory and specifically in relationship to the phenomenon being discussed. In Jung's own words...

The collective unconscious - so far as we can say anything about it at all - appears to consist of mythological motifs or primordial images, for which reason the myths of all nations are its real exponents. In fact, the whole of mythology could be taken as a sort of projection of the collective unconscious... We can therefore study the collective unconscious in two ways, either in mythology or in the analysis of the individual. (From The Structure of the Psyche, CW 8, par. 325.)

www.carl-jung.net...

Really, if you think about it, all Jung is saying there is roughly the same thing that Vallee is saying and attempting to define something, in human terms, that is without definition. In physiological/neurological terms, using Paul MacLean's Triune Brain model, Jung is merely explaining the combined purpose of the Neo-cortex in giving meaning to 'experience' through memory acquisition. Jung, like many of his contemporaries, as well as later proponents of such ideas like Tim Leary, received a classical education, and this I believe is key to understanding why they felt such knowledge was locked away deep inside the psyche...they took that education for granted. My brother is the same, he received a traditional English grammar school education, learnt latin and was directed through Greek classicism. I, on the other hand, being notably less academic didn't recieve such an education, mine was more vocationally based. As a result, when I came to ATS my eyes were literally opened to this world of esoterica and symbology that I had previously been entirely ignorant of. I struggled to grasp at it but I just didn't get it...until I read the ancient classics, then it all fell into place and a whole different world opened up before me. My point being, there has to be the initial input of data in order to maximise that potential that Jung, Leary and Vallee discuss...it is not inherent...the feedback loop, to function, has to be fed and nourished with the required data to produce a consistent 'form' or 'manifestation'. Differentials will always exist wherever the input differs.

So, that said, in this context, Rupert Sheldrake's Morphic Resonance Theory, though still somewhat problematic, offers a better model to work from and helps to explain why some groups, or Morphic Units, will see Fatima, while others will see aliens/ETs. This also, to some extent, ties in what Bybyots has mentioned previously about Form Constants too in terms of the parallels between spontaneous and induced hallucinatory, or vision experiences. A Morphic Unit can be a atom, a cell, a ecosystem, a galaxy...or it could be a person, a school, a readership, or a forum such as ATS. The Morphic Unit though is part of the whole, and that whole can be as infinite as you want it to be, and much like the petroglyph several pages back, each unit, is within another, is within another etc etc all the way down to electrons and back up to the universe itself...and potentially beyond. The Morphic Field serves as organiser, setting structures and patterns of activity both within the unit and in the units interaction with other units. The greater the similarity between the various units, the greater the transference or resonance between them, therefore the 'messages' passed are stronger and clearer.

I searched and didn't see a thread about this anywhere, so I thought since it dovetailed so nicely with the "intelligence community" aspect of this thread I toss it in here...

Check this link from "The Intercept" take note of the title

The Art of Deception: Training for a New Generation of Online Covert Operations

and don't be too surprised when you get to page 35...
firstlook.org...

Now, check this article about it here: www.dailygrail.com...

Naughty, naughty, naughty British Intel!

Springer...

reply to post by Springer


It is interesting isn't it? I wonder how many times that stock photo has appeared in a link in this thread I know I have seen it before this thread but that one picture has appeared at least 7 times I can think of already. I know your intent wasn't about that pic but I see what you are trying to illustrate here, I am all for the intl/cointl aspect of "the control system" and its deceptive ways. Nice find. I am still curious how Snowden being in the NSA and as compartmentalized as it is was privy to so much information, seems convenient that there was some "UFO intel" in there along with prism material, reminds me of all the lucrative UFO stuff apparently leaked by wikileaks, my opinion what a sham.

reply to post by Brotherman


I do hope you kept going past pg. 35, there's a bunch of them in that file.

reply to post by Brotherman




So far twice on Italian blogs, once on a Russian site, another that is a dead page with no date, and at the Daily Grail where it is related back to the GCHQ powerpoint slides.

So, 5 times as far as I can tell right now, for what it's worth.

reply to post by Bybyots


+2 if you count Springers 2 sources

reply to post by Springer


Yeah I saw them, I actually think there are parts of that slideshow embedded in this thread a few pages back, all of them UFO photos, that is

reply to post by Brotherman


I'm not counting the ones that recur back on Glenn Greenwald. I added the daily Grail one to be descriptive.

reply to post by Bybyots


I was counting the amount of times the "message" was repeated, messenger isn't important

reply to post by Brotherman


It would be great to get that other disc-shaped one out of the mix, but I'm struggling with getting it to my machine. It would be fun to track down that one too. It doesn't seem like anyone has posted it on the main thread concerning the powerpoint.



ETA: Okay, this beauty...



Was photographed in Cornwall England and the image got started at The Daily Mail in 2011 where it is offered as "Proof' of UFOs. I can find it additionally on two sites that appear to be Chinese and one that is in Arabic and then on something called OpenMinds.

Look closely, it's a seagull.

reply to post by Bybyots


I don't recall that one on this thread however I have seen it on other threads here on ATS. You just helped spark me an idea of something I want to look into.

reply to post by Springer

Thanks for the info. You have always pushed for the bottom line on this subject and it is greatly appreciated. If Vallee steps in to be interviewed here or to comment would you consider including yourself, the OP along with the main contributors to this thread, and also MikeBoydUS if you can reach him (he may be over seas) for a closed discussion?

I can't stop myself from throwing this out to the thread...

That feeling? The one that feels like something is unravelling and about to reveal it's innards?

We should be very afraid and suspicious of that feeling and staunchly hold on to our power to exercise our disbelief.

That is likely the Control System which is responsible for keeping things status quo; it's job is to keep us in a sort of pre-operational state of suggestibility, not an advancing state of increasing knowledge, at least not the one that is being mimicked.

Many of us that have been developing what we think of all of this, primarily on The Gut's threads over the last several years, know that that powerpoint slide has in it exactly what we expected to see, operations manual indeed.

Cuz I'm crazy like that, I'm going to be the first kid on my block to call that powerpoint presentation, and the one that preceded it, hokum.

Bybyots
Many of us that have been developing what we think of all of this, primarily on The Gut's threads over the last several years, know that that powerpoint slide has in it exactly what we expected to see, operations manual indeed.

Cuz I'm crazy like that, I'm going to be the first kid on my block to call that powerpoint presentation, and the one that preceded it, hokum.

We're about to bring this home to roost. That's what Birds do (think Aviary) is roost right?

The slides--minus the explanatory presentation--might seem somewhat confusing, especially as relates to UFOs...but I think we have their number on speed dial at this point. Pretty sure I know why those slides were included, but it's gonna take me a minute to put it together in a post so as to compress the gist of 3 threads in a digestible manner.

Springer happens to know quite a bit about the intelligence usage/prostitution of the ETH mythology and hopefully--once we've set the stage--he will share some of what some of our 'players' have shared with him.

The short answer is that the intelligence community has INDEED propagated and USED the phenomenon for their own purposes. Some of those reasons honorable, some maybe not so much depending on one's point of view. It certainly suggests that Unca' Sam ain't hiding no knowledge of E.T. at the very least. (That's not to say they have no clues as to the phenomenon's nature, however. That aspect is a little more complicated, but worthy of vetting)

Here's some stuff on the short answer: The CIA and the UFO Mythos

The longer answer--the most important one--is already contained in this trilogy of threads, but is much more subtle and more obfuscated by those at the helm. We'll see if we can shed some further light into the darkness.

Brotherman
...Snowden being in the NSA and as compartmentalized as it is was privy to so much information, seems convenient that there was some "UFO intel" in there along with prism material, reminds me of all the lucrative UFO stuff apparently leaked by wikileaks, my opinion what a sham.

It's not "intel," as it were, as regards UFOs per se. The point might be the success of their "magic" in showing us an orange while palming an apple.

I mean, that entire document is about deception and dirty tricks, eh? Think about it.

The Art of Deception: Training for a New Generation of Online Covert Operations

Here's a pertinent review I think:

When world-class scientists are working on intelligence-rated projects seeking ways to determine, influence, and manipulate "the behaviors of individuals and groups," how do you suppose they go about that? From the DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency) TIGER study:

in developing the methodology, the committee considered the end user (analysts and predictors of the behaviors of individuals and groups), the data available to them, the desired output, and the unique aspects (if relevant) of neuroscience research. Intelligence analysts were available for consultation throughout the project in order to ensure that the methodology was realistically applied, given the limitations of the data sets.

linkwww.nap.edu...

Do they get some volunteers and set them down at tables and try various ways to get folk to believe the red pill is blue, and the blue pill is red?


No, it requires a complex project that requires an unwitting community. Thusly, and noting all we have about MJ-12, SERPO, Kit's interests in memes and such, as well as the intelligence connections of it's main figures, and the fact that there is indeed a ready-made ufological community…well, I think it's a thesis that can't be easily dismissed.



We might also look again at this sentence from the TIGER study quoted above:

Intelligence analysts were available for consultation throughout the project in order to ensure that the methodology was realistically applied, given the limitations of the data sets.

Dr. Green is a current member of the National Research Council’s Standing Committee on Technology Insight—Gauge, Evaluate, and Review (TIGER).

The traditional way to engage this phenomenon was ritual magic: demonology, evocation, Enochian calls, flying ointment. Anything like this was punishable by death for a long time. Why was it taken so seriously, historically, other than as an affront to the status quo?

Publicly endorsing this approach might be career jeopardizing for a famous scientist.

Et Tu, Brute? or Jacques Has His Suspicions

Kit is in close contact with most of the UFO groups, so his interest is only confidential among the uninformed. Right now he is on his way to Houston, where Valerie Ransone and a group of contactees have promised he would witness materializations. But what are his true intentions? He belongs to a small cadre of very bright Intelligence types who are looking for elements of truth.

There is no way to know what really goes on, and who pulls the strings. And even the bright ones can easily be fooled by their own system or fool themselves.

It is becoming obvious to both of us that some of the rumors about extraterrestrials have been planted, perhaps as a cover to esoteric weapons systems, or as part of psychological warfare exercises in which ufologists are a convenient test bed.

Messsengers of Deception emerges slowly in the media, stressing the hypothesis that some UFO cases are the result of psychological manipulation by the military.

A close reading of the above, suggests to me, some very carefully crafted sentences.

Bittersweet Schemes, Memes, and Future Dreams...

I won't see Kit on this trip. Sadly, in spite of my admiration for his sharp intellect, there's a barrier between us. He's cleared for all kinds of secrets to which I have no access. It's pointless to talk, and I can't trust his bosses with my information. I carry my notes for Network Revolution. There is much to say about the world of computers we are building, the ““solid-state society”” on the distant horizon.

Sealed in boxes, our UFO library is ready to be loaded into the truck and driven away to a rented storage place where it will spend the next few years. I feel lighter and freer now, this mass of information pushed out of my life. I haven't found out what UFOs were, but I did change the level of the problem.

Too bad I can't say more in Messengers. As Frank Pace pointed out, I am condemned to understatements.

In Messengers of Deception, Dr. Vallee explores ufological deception from, mainly, two angles. The deceptive nature of the anomalous phenomenon and deception by frauds and intelligence agencies.

I get the sense, over and over in Forbidden Science II--and Messengers of Deception--that he has a burning desire for truth. He leaves bread crumbs but, as he stated above, he is, "condemned to understatements." That he returns time and again to the theme of intelligence agencies' and ufological deception is quite remarkable.

He wants to tell us…and he's done the best he can.

What have I learned? (1) The phenomenon is real but it offers multiple levels. (2) No simple extraterrestrial explanation fits the facts. (3) The governments of the U.S., Mexico and France have a keen level of interest (and the Russian and U.K. as well) but no scientific research project seems to exist. (4) Some of the brightest people in Intelligence get involved but the real data must be hidden at a different level. (5) Much of the official involvement is directed at faking data, not at discovering the truth. (6) Animal mutilations are real but probably unrelated to UFOs. (7) No solution will be found by mediocre, amateurish research.

Note item 5 above: Much of the official involvement is directed at faking data, not at discovering the truth. Passion evident, Dr. Vallee continues:

An intriguing article appeared recently in the Chronicle. A Quaker group, the ““American Friends Services Committee,”” has accused the police of engaging in large-scale political surveillance through an espionage network, the Law Enforcement Intelligence Unit, whose target they claim is the American public. Some 250 law enforcement agencies are said to subscribe to it, as the U.S. slowly takes some of the characteristics of a police state.

Is it within the murky world beyond the law, the domain of private security firms, major corporations and parallel Intelligence networks, that some of the answers should be sought for the manipulation of belief systems?

I'd say the evidence has only continued to build for that observation over the years. MJ-12 and Serpo come to immediate mind as candidates. We pick back up--in the next post--where we left off, speaking of the, "manipulation of belief systems."

Forbidden Science II