Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

a reply to: Baddogma

Just do whatever makes the most sense to you personally. Include your own personal needs into the equation. None of us should leap onto live grenades. Avoiding melodrama when possible is a good thing.

I'm working through a little cognitive dissonance too. I first realized that traditional spirituality and religion were not just wrong but abusive to humans more than 40 years ago. But the 'KPB variant' ive been working on all these decades was also 'infiltrated' to some degree not that long ago I must admit.

I'd just go cold turkey...but humans are somewhat 'designed' to be 'spiritual' ...physiologically and psychologically....until we are replaced by machine bodies there is no avoiding it.

It would be very easy to declare that humans are a food crop and to just get drunk and screw....but I think that analysis is too simplistic and flawed.....and even if it's that simple...I don't care for that....I think it's possible to 'sour the milk' so that humans can be left alone....to evolve into a rational non-victim species. But it will take many people working together for a long time to separate humans from the rat maze we are currently living in.

I wish us all well!!

KPB

I've said it a few times, and I'll repeat myself again, I think we are looking at an upgraded Serpo. It's been a long time between obvious meme and myth making, and we are in prime position to observe. I think perhaps the reason AstrO's thread resonated across these forums so well, was a clever combination of less-woo oriented aviation heads being fed sufficient real world data to at least hypothesise about these so called 'RKs' which sound awfully like Star Trek in some ways. So technical information was given in a limited capacity, but also a tale that bordered on the edge of woo, but never fully approached the heights we see with the Pleiadians (who are just upgraded Venusians from the fifties), and the Galactic Federation of Poppycock, or whatever they're called. In amongst the technical stuff and photon moving dreams of twins who have quantum entanglement (that was a nice touch, true or not), explanations were given to certain sightings that to my memory have never had anything more than speculation.

What was Cash Lundrum? Bang, explained by Mr MaestrO

Rendlesham? No, you've got to stop thinking of aliens, it's just just one of ours

The Phoenix Lights? Haha , that one, that's just our some of our modular ships joining together to make the mothership. We sure trolled you good with that one, hey?

Whether the information has any validity or not, at least the aura of veracity hangs about it. Has there ever been a time when anyone has clearly been able to define exactly what a UFO is? Now this tale may well be a whole bunch of hooey, but it's certainly rang a bell with what would appear to be less credulous members of this virtual society we subscribe to.

The only real question to consider now is are any of the perpetrators Richard Doty and associates. One of their associates was good mates with Dr Jolyon West, who managed to kill an elephant with a massive dose of lysergic acid (not a person I'd like to consider a friend), had some involvement in the Serpo hoax, and he makes a quick appearance in MirageMen at the behest of a character named Doty (Again!). If you wanted to have cover in the intel community why not name yourself Dr. Blue or Dr. Grey - faceless men for faceless crimes perhaps?

Are we still stuck in the same picture theatre watching a remastered copy of the same old film, or is this movie a new release? There is a variation in the plot - this time there are no aliens, it's all Earthly tech. Why the change in the script?

Does this mean I need to change my belief system?

Again?

originally posted by: 1ofthe9
Did you catch the MILAB type stuff too?

Yeah. A fascinating addition and I'm not totally immune to that hitting a chord with me. It does make a handy catch-all package this little tale.

Which makes me wonder: Have any of these theories/details turned up in any of the breakaway civilization authors works? Dolan is one I think. Farrell another. Pope? Didn't astr0 mention Pope at some point? If we find pieces of the story elsewhere, it might show lineage and that it was cobbled together.

originally posted by: Baddogma
I am having second thoughts about joining that "research thread" as screening negative input defeats the process of deciding relative truth... and for other reasons as well, tbh.

Join.

Here's a hug, bubba, you've been through a lot lately. (---O---)

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I am having second thoughts about joining that "research thread" as screening negative input defeats the process of deciding relative truth... and for other reasons as well, tbh.

Just from first glance as I haven't given it any attention other than seeing the OP, but if those already listed as participants are in fact active participants than I fail to see how this "research" would be without bias. There seems to be a little issue of conflict of interest IMHO and trying to wade in to that knowing you will have to deal with egos and pride while attempting to extract whatever truth that lives inside this # sandwhich. To me, that is awfully unappealing.

originally posted by: cuckooold
...Are we still stuck in the same picture theatre watching a remastered copy of the same old film, or is this movie a new release? There is a variation in the plot - this time there are no aliens, it's all Earthly tech. Why the change in the script?

Does this mean I need to change my belief system?

Again?

That is the question. Assuming for the moment that this does have intel fingerprints (I haven't entirely ruled out a financial motive or meltdown) then the question would become; was it an experiment in narrative---or using what's been learned about narrative/belief systems to build a story that will be easier to sell to the masses. If the latter, then we must assume we're gonna wake up one day and find a whole new paradigm being presented to us.

And, unless I'm missing something, it kind of does have "aliens" inherent in the story, too. Certainly a religious/spiritual component as well. Damn, it really is ALL there. That alone speaks volumes to me.

The main reason I wish we could discuss this on an open thread, is that I'm almost certain that this has been worked here before with only the storyline changing. Folk recruited by pm, alleged experiences after private contact, etc. I'd like to fish for members that were caught up in other similar matters as that could totally shed some light should certain details match up.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

Exactly rose... exactly.

As cuckoold (I do NOT want to know the origin of that net handle) pointed out, this info is different in tone and scope and thus, perhaps, motives IF disinfo or a psi-ops.

And I didn't know there WAS a lethal dose of lysergic acid ... poor elephant... I vaguley remember that and will now "relax" by looking it up.

And as an aside, despite my urbane demeanor (ha), my youth held a few years spent trying to ascertain such a lethal dose, and failed. The only 'death' was of any personal assurance that the concept of a consensus reality was even possible!

And GUT, the virtual hug was well received and brought a smile to this haggard, unshaven (yet still comely) demeanor. Hugs back to all.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
Just from first glance as I haven't given it any attention other than seeing the OP, but if those already listed as participants are in fact active participants than I fail to see how this "research" would be without bias. There seems to be a little issue of conflict of interest IMHO and trying to wade in to that knowing you will have to deal with egos and pride while attempting to extract whatever truth that lives inside this # sandwhich. To me, that is awfully unappealing.

I know what you mean. On the other hand, this could be very interesting even if we can't participate. I bet some are having second thoughts realizing that they now have to try and make it make sense to the membership and probably realizing it's not quite as compelling a case as they thought it was when they were caught up in the spell moment.

a reply to: cuckooold

I think that the die hard Vallee / 'spiritual hypothesis' fans in this thread could care less whether earthly tech is involved or not. I could care less if there were vast fleets of the USS Enterprise flying around (actually or as a simulation or a delusion).

From my perspective at least (and possibly Vallee etc.) its human consciousness and culture that has been infiltrated.

If the magicians behind this want to use a magic wand (to misdirect the audiences attention) that's up to them. Whether that 'wand' looks like a wand or the death star it's irrelevant.

Now all this said....granted...the 'outer insiders' may think they are pulling Serpo 2.0 or whatever.....and maybe they are....but ultimately thats just a tiny slice of the deception.

Good observation BTW....certainly could be a part if it.

KPB

I suppose what bothers me most now is the research thread. It's almost as if, they are inviting everyone to become involved to uncover and unveil something - others have already put together. As far as the scientists go and a call to dig into their past and present work.

Sort of like being led down the primrose path. So to speak.

If Astr0 was still here, I'd leap right in. But I waited, and missed my chance to be involved when the originators were laying the groundwork. Of course, he'd of had to walk away, if this was all manipulation of his expertise, and a serpo event. Can't be around for the "research" and have the story contradicted or fall apart before it gets it converts. Easier to have an absentee with a story they are working to validate, eh?

I'll be following the developments though. I suppose if I want to talk about it on the live radio show, I should make a contribution of interest? There has been complaints as of late that those of us that do the ATS radio shows will cover a thread we never took part of. Which is difficult for me when I have nothing new or good to add. I don't wear the skeptics hat very well. I'm inclined to believe people, at least believe, they believe it. So I'm conflicted as to whether or not I NEED to become involved on the topic - if I want to cover the theory and account on Into The Fringe Radio.

Sigh.

~ Cirque

originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
...If Astr0 was still here, I'd leap right in. But I waited, and missed my chance to be involved when the originators were laying the groundwork. Of course, he'd of had to walk away, if this was all manipulation of his expertise, and a serpo event. Can't be around for the "research" and have the story contradicted or fall apart before it gets it converts. Easier to have an absentee with a story they are working to validate, eh?

Yeah. 'Zactly. Plus, we can't even comment on the research thread or ask questions can we? As for the radio show: You may not participate in all the threads, but when I've heard you, you had done your homework and understood the gist of the thread. Not so with all the various radio hosts. Anyhoo: Hope life is treating you like you deserve, CdT. You are a treasure.

The core con job we face, is that humans are supposedly weak foolish damaged (sinful) stupid little creatures who need a cosmic mommy/daddy (god/light bringer/promethius/higher self/soul/ascended master/alien brother/advanced race) to rescue us as we are supposedly cosmic feces.

This is what EVERY VERSION OF THE GRAND LIE has been telling us for all of recorded history. (Vallee talks about this too).

Basically almost no one has the balls to harp on this....all the other stuff on ATS and in the world is just another version of the magic wand to keep us away from this simple fact.

My 3 cents.

KPB

a reply to: cuckooold

reminded me of the movie Lunopolis

www.snagfilms.com...

There are a lot of the same elements in the story including a mysterious artifact.

a reply to: The GUT

Thanks Gut. Life is calm and peaceful. Just as I like it!

There is a reply button for me on the research thread. Is it implied, that if your not one of the named research participants, you shouldn't respond to anything in the thread?

I thought of Lunopolis when Astr0's story came out too. Also The Sender, which is a bit older of a movie, but it has to do with consciousness and moving through space and time.

~ Cirque

I'm looking forward to crazyewok fleshing out his own investigation. He's a hard sell and we both worked pretty effectively together on some of the Dulce shenanigans. I like the little furry feller: He's rough and ready. It is a pretty compelling story and there is some evidence for small parts of it I have to admit. Just not the more outlandish parts. Not to mention hole after hole. Seems to me, too, that astr0 contradicted his own alleged knowledge in some parts of the weird California sighting thread. If someone wanted to sell a new world order, it would fit the bill rather nicely.

Good stuff guys. Shame the night time visitors can't oblige us with visits. The Orion stuff is interesting (look up Deep Space Force) but it has technical inaccuracies and other bugbears. Gotta wonder at the timing too - with the recent Secret Space Program conference and that growing mythros.

I've been rereading Forbidden Science II today... Did anyone else catch the bit where Jack Verona was the guy pushing the Holloman landing footage story?

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: Rosinitiate

Exactly rose... exactly.

As cuckoold (I do NOT want to know the origin of that net handle) pointed out, this info is different in tone and scope and thus, perhaps, motives IF disinfo or a psi-ops.

And I didn't know there WAS a lethal dose of lysergic acid ... poor elephant... I vaguley remember that and will now "relax" by looking it up.

And as an aside, despite my urbane demeanor (ha), my youth held a few years spent trying to ascertain such a lethal dose, and failed. The only 'death' was of any personal assurance that the concept of a consensus reality was even possible!

And GUT, the virtual hug was well received and brought a smile to this haggard, unshaven (yet still comely) demeanor. Hugs back to all.

Actually my forum name is fairly innocuous, but since I've been here I've had a few comment alluding to things I'm not party to, and was completely unaware of prior to joining ATS.

Regarding Dr Jolly West and the injecting of thousands of micrograms of stuff into elephants, it was all part of MK Ultra and more than likely the military absolutely needing to try out some of the spoils of WW2 and improve on it all for freedom and democracy. Of interest is the fact that a lot of names that pop up in conspiracy circles relating to government and UFOs were also involved in such pleasant activities like smuggling narcotics, illegal wars abroad as well as domestic assassinations.

Are these the people maestrO was referring to as escaping from our grubby little wars and other misdeeds, or is it more likely that the bad kids are leaving the building because they planted a bomb in it? Does secrecy have more benefit for warlike applications, or those of peace?

Why would people need to sneak around if they had the interests of humanity first and foremost?

Interestingly I had some PMs with maestrO before his abrupt departure, and he suggested if I wanted to find out more about the Black Triangles I research certain areas. There was lots of technical information he suggested looking at, but for the more woo stuff like the abductions, sleep computations, and quantum entanglement he told me to start with Nazi Germany and look at the experiments they were doing, and then follow the peer reviewed journals after WW2, but assume if something has been peer reviewed, it may have already been utilised for 10-20 years prior to the academic paper appearing.

originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth

I'll be following the developments though. I suppose if I want to talk about it on the live radio show, I should make a contribution of interest? There has been complaints as of late that those of us that do the ATS radio shows will cover a thread we never took part of. Which is difficult for me when I have nothing new or good to add. I don't wear the skeptics hat very well. I'm inclined to believe people, at least believe, they believe it. So I'm conflicted as to whether or not I NEED to become involved on the topic - if I want to cover the theory and account on Into The Fringe Radio.

Sigh.

~ Cirque

I would LOVE to discuss this topic with you on the show. That would make for a fun evening! I wish it was any other day than Tuesdays though.

originally posted by: cuckooold
Why would people need to sneak around if they had the interests of humanity first and foremost?

IMHO this rules out the benevolent space brothers. If you wanted to look at it from a Collins Elite angle, this would fit with the standard modus operandi - 'Trust us, we're your friendly local breakaway civilization! Just don't ask for help, because your governments have the final say over your destiny. Nevermind the nighttime shenanigans, its all for a good purpose.'

I'm also curious about the OPSEC angle. Suppose OSI was investigating Zaphod? Wouldn't someone in the USAF get in touch with the OSI guys if they ran into someone like Astr0 supposedly dropping black project stuff on a forum?