Science should search for the existence of the soul

I'd say that science is already working on explaining the soul. Everytime we make a new discovery we are finding a new facet of the soul. The physical world is a mirror image of the soul within because everything manifests within the soul including the things we see.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


They cant because their looking for a biological process that explains it.

Heres where they are missing it.

Tie gravity, consciousness or soul, electromagnetism and experience together all into 1 neat little pie.

reply to post by onequestion


The biological processes they are looking at are a byproduct of the soul and its working in my opinion, so in a sense them explaining physical processes is them unknowingly examining the soul in a way.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


what im saying is they are going to have a hard time explaining it because they are getting at the foundation of existance and its not one thing.

Its many things including whats perceived as gravity and consciousness as they are the same thing. They just refuse to see it as such.

mysterioustranger
reply to post by thruthseek3r

 

It has been in just the past few years where a scientist weighed a terminally ill patient a minute or so before death, and then weighed the body a second or two after death.

There was found a small weight decrease. He attributed it to the soul leaving the body...therefore, the discrepancy proved to him at least...the assumption that if it could be weighed...it was real.

It was said to weigh 21 grams.

*FOOTNOTE: In attempting to provide a link, I found page after page both pro and con, where this testing was done by a variety of different scientists with an equal amount of different outcomes. Some of these went back to testing in 1904.

I suggest a simple searching from any search engines on this topic of the weight of the human soul. MS

edit on 09-22-2013 by mysterioustranger because: attempt to add link

The reason you are having a hard time finding it is because it was done in 1901 by Duncan MacDougall of six patients while they were in the process of dying from tuberculosis. His results were published in the Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research and are generally regarded as false, due to the flawed method used in the tests. All attempts to reproduce the results with better methods and equipment have failed. The claim has been repeated by various sources which you probably read one of. Check the link which explains his methods and the conflicting data he had. You may have even seen it in a documentary. MacDougall's experiments are mentioned and reenacted in the 1978 film Beyond and Back.

Duncan MacDougall

Unfortunately at this time there is no evidence for the soul.

reply to post by Grimpachi

No...as I said...I had found it. Along with many others both in agreement and disagreement with the results.

So in looking for the link, I realized to be fair, I'd better suggest members do a personal search and review all the info.

I guess the bottom line is that there are studies on the soul as to having measurable weight, attempting to prove it exists.

Apparently, the jury is still out!

Thanks very much! MS

reply to post by thruthseek3r

Science should search for the existence of the soul

Great idea!

Any suggestions about where they should start looking?

It's all dependent on what you conceive the soul as being; I believe it's empirically evident that we all have souls given you can can define a soul as our distinct and diverse consciousnesses. The real trick is discovering if such a thing is eternal and through theoretical quantum science, people are looking at that as well. Though honestly I think in order to get a full look it requires examining phenomenon modern/traditional science typically scoffs at without much scrutiny.

The only people who would want to find the soul, are academic types. So they can then endlessly do research on something they have zero hope of comprehending. Or doing anything useful with.

WonOunce
Proving the existence of something that exists based only on faith seems like a steep challenge. I believe the reason the soul has not been found yet is not from lack of trying, but from the impossibility of crossing the spiritual world with the real world. One day we will all find out if the soul exists or not. For me, im not going to waste time on such non-sense, and enjoy every day that I have left to live.

The thing is that it is not only based on faith. If you are aware, there is a vast literature on the life after death, be it with the Egyptian or Tibetan book of the dead or the accounts of near death experiences, there is an interesting basis to make a premise about the whole idea of searching for the soul.

More over, we all know about the feeling we have when we enter a place; you know that feeling sometimes you get that the ambient energy of a place is whether positive or negative, we all did feel it one time or another or the feeling someone you know feels good or not only by feeling, without even looking at that person. Well, if there is energy and we humans can feel it, then it can certainly be measured in a laboratory somehow or some way ... if it's not been done already but kept away from the public.



Thruthseek3r

Wandering Scribe
reply to post by thruthseek3r

 

What if the conclusion comes back negative, and there is no soul?

I think another problem with your hypothesis is a definition for the soul. From your introductory post it seems, to me, that you believe that all the people of the world view the soul in the same way. This is not true. From our earliest civilizations (the Mesopotamians) to our most modern faiths (Buddhism and Christianity) the concept of the soul has changed significantly. For example:

In Sumer (earliest civilization of Mesopotamia) the afterlife was called Kur, and it was a dark and dreary Underworld. The dead were kept in a place known as the House of Dust, also called the palace of Ganzir, whose overseer was the goddess Ereškigal. The dead did not have a soul in Sumerian religion or spirituality. Instead, they became ghosts, phantoms of their former selves, who wandered through a variety of hazy, smoky, dark tunnels that existed somewhere beneath the Earth. Their image remained the same, but their personality slowly faded away with time, until only the fading shell of who they were remained to haunt sacred and profane places.

The ancient Egyptians had a much lighter, more friendly view of the soul. To the ancient Egyptian priests the soul was divided into five segments: the Ib, the Ka, the Ba, the Ren, and the Sheut. The Ren was your name, given to you at birth, and believed to be a key which opened the way for your destiny. The Sheut was your shadow, believed to be an independent entity that attached to you at birth. It worked in much the same was as our modern "astral body" did. The Ka and the Ba were the closest concepts the ancient Egyptians had to a modern "soul," if any. The Ba was your spirit, believed to be capable of exiting the body at death and journeying around Egypt and the Duat (Egyptian afterlife). Meanwhile the Ka was, roughly, the "spark of life" that originally gave your body breath and mobility. Without the Ba and the Ka you would never have been capable of sustaining yourself, and, a process of unification post-death of the Ka and Ba produced an Akh, or, "ghost" of you that could bring luck or misfortune to those you had known in life. The Ib, though, is probably the closest to modern ideas of the "soul," as the Ib (the heart) was believed to be the throne of personality and consciousness. The Ib is where all of your individual characteristics, quirks, and behaviors resided. The Ib is also what was weighed against the Feather of Maāt on the Scales of Osiris to judge whether you deserved admittance to the Egyptian afterlife.

In Hinduism the "soul" is known as an Atman, and it is believed to be immortal, cycling through every rebirth with you. However, your Atman does not retain your personality, just a record of the deeds and actions you have performed in this life, and all previous lives. Similar to the weighing of the Ib in Egypt, upon death your Atman was judged by Yama. Good deeds produced positive Karma (white stones), while bad deeds produced negative Karma (black stones). The good and bad deeds of your life were then weighed against each other to determine first, whether you would be reincarnated to Earth, a Hell-realm, or a Heaven-realm; and second, in what caste or form you would return. In Buddhism the idea of the Atman is taken in another direction entirely, as the Buddha preaches its impermanence, instead of its immortality. According to the Buddha your soul is as much an illusory element as your emotions, your thoughts, and your beliefs. Adhering to the Dharma, so as to attain Nirvana, and free yourself from the Wheel of Samsara is believed to detach you from your Atman, ending the cycle of reincarnation.

Even Wicca and Neo Paganism, so heavily based on Gaelic Revivalism, the "soul" has its own nature and path. From the ancient Irish Celts, to the Anglo-Saxon heathens, and on into modern Gardnerian, Saxon, and Dianic Wicca, ideas of transubstantiation, reincarnation, and impermanence run rampant in response to the soul. Some believed that the soul was immortal, spending a lifetime as any number of creatures: human, salmon, hawk, and so on. Others' believed that the soul and the spirit were no different from one another, and that the Otherworld, called Tír na nÓg, was a distant island paradise where the dead stayed young, beautiful, and full of life forever. Others' still believed in great halls, like Valhalla and Sessrúmnir, where the dead awaited the final, cataclysmic, battle.

I haven't even touched on the Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Sufi, Sikh, Zoroastrian, Slavic, or the vague New Age concepts of the soul. Yet, already it should be abundantly clear that the "soul" is neither simple, clear, nor well-defined in the history, mythology, or spirituality of our species. Before "science" can even begin to study the authenticity of the soul, "science" must first know what kind of soul it is searching for. To do that, you have to discard 99% of the world's ideas concerning the soul, and embrace the single concept of the soul that you believe in. And that is the biggest problem. Whatever concept of the soul you believe in, millions (if not billions) believe in a different one.

~ Wandering Scribe

Then if I can clarify this to make it easier so we do not get into a debate of what is the soul in order to stick straight to the point of my thread, I am talking about what is inside the body which can feels and perceive outside of the 5 normal sense of the body.

Name it whatever you like this is what I mean by soul and which I say some experimentation should be done in order to find it as nothing is lost nor created but everything transforms. Energy is still energy so when the body dies, something remains if the law of physics are right though.




Thruthseek3r

Cuervo
reply to post by thruthseek3r

 

The problem is that, to be proven scientifically, you would need to be able to measure it with real physical instruments and to be able to replicate the observance reliably. There are frequencies of sound and light that we can't measure yet so... it might be a while before we can even begin to "film" a soul.

A shortcut would be to biologically replicate a human being, down to the very last detail. This would not be cloning, it would have to be a complete build of a person. If that person doesn't end up breathing and thinking on its own, then we can at least know that our consciousness is not a strict result of our biology as many "anti-soul" scientists believe.

What is great in this post is that you mentioned the words, and I quote "anti-soul scientist". This is exactly the kind of thinking which would need to be shifted if we are to find the soul in a laboratory.



Thruthseek3r

0bserver1
Ill hope they never do, Know why? Then they know how to entrap the soul and we will never be free after death.. Some rumors go that when you die you will have three chances to get into the light , but there's also light that's false and lead you to entrapment of some alien race .. So I say no to finding the soul and when you die look for the real god divine light, because you don't want to get hoaxed after death..

edit on 0b28America/ChicagoThu, 23 Jan 2014 17:08:28 -0600vAmerica/ChicagoThu, 23 Jan 2014 17:08:28 -06001 by 0bserver1 because: (no reason given)

i understand the fear here and I share the same brother, but the real problem is we have some people very aware of how the soul works, we have psychic vampires which are leeching our very own inside without having some of the hosts being aware of it, a real shame for these vampires may they go in hell I pray to God that they will in due time.

The thing is if the knowledge becomes mainstream, the ones in power who knows more on the topic than the rest of us, let's call them witches or whatever name you like would not be able to abuse anymore of the weak, this is the whole point of the thing.




Thuthseek3r

bitsforbytes
Because if they did prove it. Do you know what that would mean?

That would change everything. People would be responsible, people would be aware that they are accountable for their actions. We would know that there are dark forces who are trying to take our souls. It would be obvious.....So the battle still continues. For now...

edit on 23-1-2014 by bitsforbytes because: (no reason given)

This is very true, I almost got my soul raptured on some occasions and I was in public with other people, this is no joke so I know what you mean and know this is true, but a voice inside of me knew it was wrong, it said "NO! GET BACK IN YOUR BODY AND STAY THERE!" and so the soul did.

As for the battle, it might be over sooner than later because there is a learning curve everybody must make and I believe we are the point where the growth goes faster and exponential as in a positive exponential function let's say f(x) = x². That being said the battle still continues but it will be soon over.



Thruthseek3r

onequestion
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

They cant because their looking for a biological process that explains it.

Heres where they are missing it.

Tie gravity, consciousness or soul, electromagnetism and experience together all into 1 neat little pie.

That is very true that scientists would look for a biological process which is part of the reason they did not find the soul yet. Although, it does not mean they won't, as I said in an earlier post, if the soul is energy, then it can be measured but the how to measure it is THE million dollar question, how ?



Thruthseek3r

Strayed
It's all dependent on what you conceive the soul as being; I believe it's empirically evident that we all have souls given you can can define a soul as our distinct and diverse consciousnesses. The real trick is discovering if such a thing is eternal and through theoretical quantum science, people are looking at that as well. Though honestly I think in order to get a full look it requires examining phenomenon modern/traditional science typically scoffs at without much scrutiny.

It seems the cutting edge of science is dark matter or it was called in the past the missing mass/gravity. Maybe if we solve the issue of the missing mass in the universe which keeps the stars and galaxies together, maybe then we would be nearer to the resolution of the issue of the soul.

I mean, they are very similar do not you think? They both are supposedly unseen, yet they seem to be an integral part o the universe in order to make it work properly. I might be onto something there or not ( eh eh! ), but it made a lot of sense to me when I wrote these lines contrasting the soul and dark matter.




Thruthseek3r

reply to post by thruthseek3r

I have posted this video on ATS many times as it is brilliant imo.

It fits in very well in this thread.

thedeadtruth
The only people who would want to find the soul, are academic types. So they can then endlessly do research on something they have zero hope of comprehending. Or doing anything useful with.

Maybe not, maybe some are not academic at all, but are just scared the hell out to talk about such things in our current society considering it is still a taboo (sadly of course, because it should not).




Thruthseek3r