Some questions for those who believe that God is all-knowing and all-powering but created Satan to

These threads never go well, as you know.

reply to post by watchitburn


That's precisely what makes these threads interesting. I wade through the silly, knee-jerk, mind-conditioned replies of the know-it-alls. Those types are truly a bunch of churlish louts. Lords of Misrule, as it were.
Then...lo and behold. A reply from someone who has an extremely well-furnished apartment upstairs. An intelligent, sensible reply that not only gives me pause, but restores my shaky faith in our human race. ATS still boasts an impressive collection of these piquant folks. In the last week alone, I've been near-astonished by a couple of scintillating treatises on heady subjects.

1. He isn't doing it to find out what people will do, but to allow them to do as they wish-to provide an alternate choice to His will. Sure, He knows what they will choose, but until they choose it, it hasn't happened yet. He certainly couldn't cast people out of His presence for all eternity and say, "I looked into the future, and you were going to rebel," because until they actually do rebel, they haven't exercised their freedom of choice.

2. God's anger and disappointment comes from His holiness and justice. If you were a cop and you found out that your neighbor was going to rob a bank, your sense of right and wrong would make you angry about it. God isn't surprised by our sin, but that doesn't lessen His disapproval of it.

3. God allows evil to happen, yes. This is because evil can serve a greater purpose. The suffering of this life is what drives us to Him, and one second in His presence will wipe out all memory of earthly suffering.

Isaiah 45 verse 7

Verse 7 the Lord says : I formed the light , and create darkness :I make peace, and create evil : I the Lord do all these things .

In answer to OP "some questions for those that believe God is all knowing and all powering being but created Satan to..."

Did it ever occure to you that God may be a composite being and would include a Satan overlay template? (justforfun).

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Yep!

SimonPeter
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Yep!

Love the fun stuff recognitions SimonPeter

"God" is the desirable parts of human nature like love, kindness, forgiveness, tolerance, etc. while "Satan" is the undesirable parts of human nature like hate, greed, judgement, intolerance, etc.

Even Satan is a part of God only the darker side of it. Once we cross over to the good side we become One with God. When we begin to love others, no matter who they are, unconditionally and do not judge them do we begin to have God manifest within us.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I relate the omnipotence of God to an electronic circuit . He has to provide the negative potential as well as the positive potential in order for there to be a current flow and conduct test. And both good and evil in order to test us . He gives us free will even though he would not have to . I believe that we are here for his pleasure .


When we play God
I would wonder what the subjects of the video games we play would think if they could see and rationalize as we do . What if they could navigate through the scenery that was programed throughout the game with a free will on some of these really sophisticated games . What do you think they would think ??? Now you may have a glimpse of what God see's .

Just Saying !

Have you ever considered that it is impossible to know good without also knowing evil? What is the value or worth of one without the other to judge against?

SimonPeter
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

I relate the omnipotence of God to an electronic circuit . He has to provide the negative potential as well as the positive potential in order for there to be a current flow and conduct test. And both good and evil in order to test us . He gives us free will even though he would not have to . I believe that we are here for his pleasure .


When we play God
I would wonder what the subjects of the video games we play would think if they could see and rationalize as we do . What if they could navigate through the scenery that was programed throughout the game with a free will on some of these really sophisticated games . What do you think they would think ??? Now you may have a glimpse of what God see's .

Just Saying !

I think thats called the Sims

reply to post by SimonPeter

I would wonder what the subjects of the video games we play would think if they could see and rationalize as we do . What if they could navigate through the scenery that was programed throughout the game with a free will on some of these really sophisticated games . What do you think they would think ??? Now you may have a glimpse of what God see's .

I don't think I quite understand your analogy here. Are you trying to say that we are the characters within the video game and God is the one controlling us? Because that sounds an awful lot like saying we are our own Gods because we do have free will and can navigate the scenery we see freely. We control ourselves just like your analogy with God controlling video game characters. Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

Actually, video games are a great analogy for life itself. The universe is the most sophisticated and complex "virtual world" imaginable and we are both the avatar and the gamer, our bodies being the character that is seen and our consciousness being the gamer that controls the body.

I understand perfectly what God sees because he sees through me and is me, you as well. God allows free will because that is his will and he acts on it through us, a.k.a. himself.

I see it this way . . .

A parent who loves their child will discipline that child. Children don't generally enjoy that discipline at the time, their perspective is too short and narrow. They suffer through it. A good parents perspective is longer and broader. They're willing to allow their child to suffer through discipline in the short term if they believe that it's to the child's benefit in the long term. For example, they'll allow a relatively small suffering in the short term if they believe it will prevent the child from experiencing a greater suffering, both in duration and intensity, in the future.

We live finite lives and our perspective in relation to God's tends to be shorter and narrower. His perspective is eternal and like a good parent he will allow suffering in the short term and he will discipline, when he knows it to be in a persons long term, in this case eternal, best interest.

I think sometimes when the reaction to the questions posed by the op is a sense of unfairness or a sense that the situation isn't logical, it's a failure to take an eternal perspective into account. With an eternal perspective the lack of logic disappears and any unfairness can be made right in eternity if not in the here and now.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


No , I do not believe we are our own god . The thought just crossed my mind about the parallel when we play god with the videos . The Creator God must have a view point of man living in his world not unlike we do with the video games . There is so much we could never understand in the state we are in now .

3NL1GHT3N3D1
"God" is the desirable parts of human nature like love, kindness, forgiveness, tolerance, etc. while "Satan" is the undesirable parts of human nature like hate, greed, judgement, intolerance, etc.

Even Satan is a part of God only the darker side of it. Once we cross over to the good side we become One with God. When we begin to love others, no matter who they are, unconditionally and do not judge them do we begin to have God manifest within[ us

But what if 3NL1GHT, I want to remain on the pivot fulcrum point of the teedertodder that has not defined itself? So depending if I want to be 'good' or 'less good' could move a few inches in either direction without having to sacrifice my soul for an ideaform that produces joy or less joy; Im living in the moment you see, I just dont want to fall off.

SimonPeter

Isaiah 45 verse 7

Verse 7 the Lord says : I formed the light , and create darkness :I make peace, and create evil : I the Lord do all these things .

Best answer.

What power do we mortals have to understand the will of God?

GodIsRelative
SimonPeter

Isaiah 45 verse 7

SimonPeterVerse 7 the Lord says : I formed the light , and create darkness :I make peace, and create evil : I the Lord do all these things .

GodIsRelativeBest answer.What power do we mortals have to understand the will of God?

Gods whole point was to become individualized mortal beings through us its own creation; its incarnations to experience itself. So we in fact carry the will of God within us.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


While I will not dispute or verify your claims about God's will in creating mankind, I was only trying to say that we don't need to know the will of God to believe that He has one and that we are inextricably linked to it. He gave us free will for a reason. Whether that was to understand Himself or simply to procreate, it doesn't matter.

reply to post by arpgme

1. God did not create Satan, God created beings with free will.
Satan choose to become Satan.

Wouldn't you complain if you were just created and then punished just because God knew what sins you would do?

2. God is All Knowing. You cannot use that against God. Basically you are questioning God as to why He created us. He created You because He wanted. You only have the choice to accept or deny that. If you expect God to be answerable to you for His Will then you are just inverting the whole setup.

It's about throwing your responsibility on God. You expect God to give you free will but at the same time also save you from your own wrong choices. Maybe you should have been a tree which just obeyed all God made rules and lacked the free will and so also wouldn't go through any punishment.

3. When you see the effects of Satan and blame God. You fail to realise that it is half the picture. Yes innocents suffer but would they be compensated for it later?
Free will cannot be tested without giving a time period to let it work without interference . It does not mean that it's wrong to not interfere. That's just your expectation from God. Which again is ridiculous and inverted thinking.

No example of scientist creating anything fits here as humans cannot create anything with free will like God did.

God is the Judge and you are being judged NOT the opposite!!!

reply to post by arpgme

1. If God knows everything, why would God need to create Satan in order to "tempt" people? God already knows whether or not they can be tempted or not. I can understand a scientist creating a "tester" for his creations to see if they meet the "qualities" but why would an all-knowing god need to do this when he already knows all things?

Father knows all things, because he is not bound by time. Meaning he is ahead of us, while we are still here. So, in essence, he knows what would have taken place. A lot of experimentation goes on down here from above. It is not always just for Father, sometimes it is because another made a suggestion. Father listens to all, and implements said suggestions. Said person will then come to find out if they made the right or wrong choice based on the outcome.

2. How can God ever be angry and disappointed? When God was creating Adam and Eve, he already knew, while creating them, that they would not obey, and he allowed it anyway. It was not a surprise because he already knew and accepted it.

Good question. Father, the voice of God was upset. God was not. When the recordings took place, you were given the expressions of the voice/figure of God.

3. When God was creating Satan, he already knew exactly how Satan would be. God already knew that he was creating something that would cause evil. By creating it anyway, he was allowing it to happen. God is responsible because he has the choice of allowing something to happen or not. If a scientist knows that he was creating something destructive that would harm many people, and did nothing to change it, allowing it to happen, the scientist would still be responsible. So, isn't God responsible for allowing such an intense destructive force to exist knowing it would lead many people to suffer and hurt innocent people?

Yes, you are correct! Father did all of these things for a reason. But, man throws the weight on the emotional toll. Earth here is just a big learning environment for all. Once you leave here, you just go back to where you started from. When most people die, they do not feel the pain, the vessel surely does, but not the spirit. This is for most, but not all. When you try to rationalize this from the human perspective, it will come off as cruel and evil.