Some questions for those who believe that God is all-knowing and all-powering but created Satan to

1. If God knows everything, why would God need to create Satan in order to "tempt" people? God already knows whether or not they can be tempted or not. I can understand a scientist creating a "tester" for his creations to see if they meet the "qualities" but why would an all-knowing god need to do this when he already knows all things?

2. How can God ever be angry and disappointed? When God was creating Adam and Eve, he already knew, while creating them, that they would not obey, and he allowed it anyway. It was not a surprise because he already knew and accepted it.

3. When God was creating Satan, he already knew exactly how Satan would be. God already knew that he was creating something that would cause evil. By creating it anyway, he was allowing it to happen. God is responsible because he has the choice of allowing something to happen or not. If a scientist knows that he was creating something destructive that would harm many people, and did nothing to change it, allowing it to happen, the scientist would still be responsible. So, isn't God responsible for allowing such an intense destructive force to exist knowing it would lead many people to suffer and hurt innocent people?

These are some things to think about if you believe that God is almighty, all-knowing, and yet is not satisfied/pleased with his creations or created Satan to "tempt"...

reply to post by arpgme

If God knows everything, why would God need to create Satan in order to "tempt" people?

What makes you think that God created Satan to tempt anyone?

According to Jewish mythology, Satan was simply the leader of a group of angels who revolted against God and failed in their rebellion.

reply to post by arpgme


These threads never go well, as you know.

They always end with one side or the other getting it closed for trolling, spamming or T&C violations. Probably one of the best examples of an exercise in futility. No satisfactory answers to these questions will be found on the internet.

The only thing people can do is die and see what happens, otherwise whether or not there is a god is irrelevant. Everything is the way it is. I don't even know why I'm posting here. It accomplishes nothing.

But good luck with your thread. Hopefully you can keep it from getting out of hand.

reply to post by arpgme


As the post from adjensen mentioned, God didn't create Satan to tempt anybody. Satan happens to live close to us in proximity because his mind/consciousness has been lowered to our plane of existence due to his rebellion and more developed ego/subconscious. We live in the physical, while Satan is in the lower parts of the Etheric or Astral as some people call it. This area is where demons and ghosts reside. The two planes are right next to each other, so you meet with these beings, sometimes on a daily basis, depending on your own consciousness.

The free will of all beings in the universe has been spoken of many times on ATS and elsewhere. God intended all of us to have free will, choosing to develop our ego or our higher Spirit. As long as you are focused on Spirit, then nobody can tempt you nor can you tempt yourself.

reply to post by adjensen



But in The Book of Job, God sends Satan to be an adversary (to tempt). God even gives Satan power to achieve this. No where in the old testament does it say that Satan rebelled, but in the new testament the entire point of view changes, saying that Satan does not go to heaven to talk with God (like in Job) but instead only roams the Earth until the day of judgment.

reply to post by ctophil


If The Spirit is made of Light, what is the ego made out of? Is it also made of light? If it is made of darkness, how does ego refer to this physical world (since this world seems to be darkness compared to The Spiritual Light)?

You're just going to anger people with your questions. Religion and logic do not go hand in hand.

You need to have faith, which means unequivocally putting your belief into something that cannot be proven and doesn't have to make sense.


Khar

reply to post by arpgme


You know your children will suffer pain, and you, by the extension of your love for them, will suffer as well, so why do you procreate?

How much pain would you suffer in order to experience the greatest pleasure? How much pain would you allow others to experience in order to experience the greatest pleasure?

Is knowing the same as experiencing?

No matter what anyone says, you will not understand because you cannot reconcile with what they perceive to be just.

So.. I think you should concentrate on understanding what is just, and then try to think things through for yourself -- it should make things easier for you to accept through faith.

gl

adjensen
reply to post by arpgme

 

If God knows everything, why would God need to create Satan in order to "tempt" people?

What makes you think that God created Satan to tempt anyone?

According to Jewish mythology, Satan was simply the leader of a group of angels who revolted against God and failed in their rebellion.

If GOD is all-knowing, then wouldn't GOD already know Satan would rebel before GOD even created Satan?
The concept of all-knowing is that you would know everything in the Past, Present, and Future.

adjensen
reply to post by arpgme

 

If God knows everything, why would God need to create Satan in order to "tempt" people?

What makes you think that God created Satan to tempt anyone?

According to Jewish mythology, Satan was simply the leader of a group of angels who revolted against God and failed in their rebellion.

If GOD is all-knowing, then wouldn't GOD already know Satan would rebel before GOD even created Satan?
The concept of all-knowing is that you would know everything in the Past, Present, and Future.

reply to post by arpgme

No where in the old testament does it say that Satan rebelled

There are supporting statements in there, but the belief stems from old mythology.

Christians and Jews view Satan differently, but in the original faith, Satan represents a sort of generic adversary, who is not necessarily viewed negatively, because overcoming adversity is something that we all need to do and makes us stronger.

But in The Book of Job, God sends Satan to be an adversary (to tempt).

Satan makes Job's life miserable, he doesn't tempt him.

This might be useful for you: The Jewish View of Satan

Simple answer....Pascal's Wager.

reply to post by Frexmil2

If GOD is all-knowing, then wouldn't GOD already know Satan would rebel before GOD even created Satan?

I suppose that he would. What's your point? You don't think that Satan plays a role in God's Will?

adjensen
reply to post by arpgme

 

No where in the old testament does it say that Satan rebelled

There are supporting statements in there, but the belief stems from old mythology.

Christians and Jews view Satan differently, but in the original faith, Satan represents a sort of generic adversary, who is not necessarily viewed negatively, because overcoming adversity is something that we all need to do and makes us stronger.

But in The Book of Job, God sends Satan to be an adversary (to tempt).

Satan makes Job's life miserable, he doesn't tempt him.

This might be useful for you: The Jewish View of Satan

If my interpretation of this story is right, Basically, God is so proud of Job that he asks satan how he thinks Jobs piety is. Satan says, "Its only because you have given him a Divine wall and blessed him." then, Continues to says that if Job lost everything he would would lose faith. So God, just to prove a point, gives Satan the green light to make job suffer. Job lost all his wealth and children. Then when satan responds with "a man would do anything to save his own life" God allows satan to cover Job head to toe in boils and soars. Jobs wife and friends kept trying to get him to sin against god, and he doesn't. Job is praising God the entire time so God gives everything back at the end with some extras. Wonderful story.

I don't see why God would even consider letting an innocent man be tortured by Satan to prove a point. The story makes me feel, at first, as if God adores Job. He has blessed Job and up to that point given Job a great life. Job loved god with all his might. But then for whatever reason god asked Satan if he had noticed Job and how he felt about Jobs Piety. God didn't like Satans answer so he made a bet with satan. God let Satan do what ever he want to Job, except kill him. By granting Satan permission to do what he did to Job was a direct cause of pain and sorrow in Jobs life. Also, If God is all knowing, God already knew the outcome that job would not of sinned against him. Why would Satans opinion of Job make God decide to allow this? Why would the Almighty God give any care into proving a traitor like satan wrong? It seems as to me that the story of Job was written as a way to secure a main theme in the Foundation of the Abrahamic religions [Islam, Judaism, and Christianity]. This story introduces a solution for why bad things happen to faithful people. So it reinforces the fact the no matter how much devotion you give God, there will always be a chance god will screw you over.

reply to post by arpgme

But in The Book of Job, God sends Satan to be an adversary (to tempt).

Yep. And Satan also tempted Eve, and let's NOT forget the greatest of people that Satan, supposedly, tempted was Jesus. So yeah, Satan is a tempter.

jhilyard
Simple answer....Pascal's Wager.

Thank you!

reply to post by windword

windword
Yep. And Satan also tempted Eve, and let's forget the greatest of people that Satan, supposedly, tempted was Jesus. So yeah, Satan is a tempter.

And the reason for messing up Job's life was to show God and Satan whether or not he'll break down or to continue praising God regardless of what happened to him. So yes, it was Satan's "role" to do this agreed upon by God.

reply to post by jhilyard

jhilyard
Simple answer....Pascal's Wager.

What does Pascal's Wager have to do with these question?

You can't mix logic and religion.

There's all kinds of stuff in the bible that would make anyone with half a brain scratch their heads.

Like if Adam and Eve were created without the knowledge of good and evil(wisdom), how were they able to choose to eat the fruit in the first place?

Eh?

Because religion is governed by "faith" a logical argument will not work for people that believe. Yes, you can strengthen the opinion of many who see it the way you do, but in the end, some argument will be made that contradicts yours. (On the basis of faith.)

So…

Off the top of my head the ones I remember are…

God wanted people to have free will so he had to have options to choose from.

Or, God did it as a test for man, so they could choose the path of lightness or darkness.

Etc, etc, etc…

I'm sure there are others too. It's the equivalent of banging your head off the wall if you actually expect to appeal to religious people with this kind of thing though. You are basically preaching to the choir (no pun intended) because the only people willing to listen to this are people who don't put their faith in religion. (or an all knowing, all seeing god, rather.)

I'm not sure why you bother asking. None of the answers you get are going to be to your liking except for the ones that reaffirm your own POV on the matter.