I do not believe in birth control

Is this a joke?

Pimpintology, It's good that you don't believe in adultery before marriage.

I'm assuming you are a guy, I may be wrong. But assuming you are, have you considered your stance from a female point of view?

Imagine that you've had sex and that you like it, now imagine that each time you do it there is a chance of some animal tearing it's way out of you.

Is that a chance you are willing to take? Every time?

I'm a guy and as such my opinion isn't really understanding the full consequences. But it's not about philosophy or religion it's about reality.

Birth control has helped make massive improvements to the fight for equality. By saying you don't believe in birth control you are saying you don't believe in women having equal opportunity.

reply to post by Pimpintology


Pregnancy aside, there are a boat load of diseases and infections spread only through sex. Why would you want to expose yourself to them? I've only ever had sex with trusted partners and go for a sexual health check-up every couple of years.

reply to post by Pimpintology


I do not accept the basis the church uses to demonize birth control.



There is so much morally wrong with that story but somehow they come up with birth control.

I really don't think 90% of the people who follow the churches rules even read the bible.

LittleByLittle
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

But I do get why religions try to keep the high birth rate at a high level since it increases the number of souls in their churches

Outbreeding the Enemy - Does it work?
My ATS thread from a while back talks about that.

reply to post by Pimpintology


It's one thing to have kids if you can afford and support them, but when you rely on the rest of society to help support them, it's creating a belief among your children that it's a normal way of life. It's a draw on society, when most are living from pay check to pay check just to make ends meet.

There's a reason most families only have 2 children today. The majority can't afford it anymore. It's not like they wouldn't want more children, but why would they want to raise children into a life of poverty? People have to take responsibility for their own families, not become human breeding machines and worry about it later or expect society to pick up the tab.

reply to post by Pimpintology


From a religious perspective only I have a problem with the idea of worshipping a God. Its not my ego I question, its the ego of the God who needs to create people to worship him.

That's why I don't believe the creator or mechanism that creates life has a personal interest in 'counting every hair upon your head'. That idea of making God inso some kind of Daddy is for me purely man's own ego and desire to be considered special and those who work to promote religious observance more special than the rest of society they wish to control. With so much creation always happening, much of it random, I think life merely goes on until it cannot any more for over production reasons and then the lot decays, dies and is reborn again. Cycles within cycles.

If birth control is wrong then so are condoms and "pulling out". If we were only allowed to have sex to make babies the world would be even more over-populated than it already is. If we were only meant to have sex to make babies there would be no such thing as miscarriages or infertility.

If you believe birth control is wrong then you must also believe condoms are wrong. Both are used to prevent fertilization of the egg. Do you believe condoms are wronv or should not be believed in? If you believe condoms are ok then I'd have to call you a hypocrite.

A slightly different take on this: All animals, from fish to humans, are designed to reproduce in such a fashion as to provide, on average, their own replacements. Of all the thousands of fish eggs produced in a fish's lifetime, the number that will survive to adulthood is two. Of all the hundreds of eggs produced by a turtle, the number that will survive to adulthood is two. Of all the babies a human female can birth in a lifetime, only two will survive to adulthood.

Traditionally, in the wild.

The average lifespan of human beings over the history of human beings, is 28. Without benefit of "civilization" life is hard enough that people did not live longer. A female is sexually mature at "about" 14 and would have been married off at that age and expected to produce children until she died in childbirth or some other way, by 28. That leaves 14 years of birthing children. If lactation did not prevent ovulation, then the number of children she could produce in a lifetime would have been about 14, but only two would survive to adulthood.

Today the reproductive life of a female is really not all that different. Having females making babies at 14 is considered child abuse, so the age of starting is pushed to about 18 or so. And fertility lasts until menopause, until the mid forties or so, though the chance of successful reproduction decreases as the chance for a defective baby increases. But the BIG thing is that most babies today DO survive into adulthood. Infant mortality is very low.

So, if you "don't believe" in birth control and do not use it, are normally fertile, and have a normal sex life, you'll be pregnant pretty much all the time until you can no longer conceive, resulting in over a dozen children. At this point the question becomes, how are you going to support them? Surely your belief in "no birth control" does not advocate that other people or the state support your children. Why should they pay for your beliefs? It's not their responsibility. At what economic level do you wish your children to live? Will they live in poverty for your beliefs? Will they live four to a bedroom because you cannot afford a large enough house? Is there any way at all you could afford to provide an education for them? How about health care? Are you aware of how much teenagers eat?

You'll also pay a price personally and physically. With that many births to your "credit" your hips will expand permanently and your butt will grow huge. Your attractiveness will diminish much more rapidly than your peers. You'll probably get fat. You'll always be able to find someone to inseminate you, but that begs the question of who, and who would want to. It may be that your successive partners may be further and further down the gene pool, so to speak.

So the overall point is that this is your responsibility. Don't foist it on someone else or the rest of us or the state to take care of you because you have this "philosophy."

Of course, you could remain celibate, in which case it's a moot point.

reply to post by Pimpintology

I myself have always felt it was wrong just on the level of nature(not sure how to describe this) a lone. Religion gave me a whole new view on it.

I'm curious to know what aspect of "Religion" informs your stance on birth control. If it's just that it's not natural, I wonder, are you also against vaccinations and pharmecudicals? What about other medical breakthroughs, like brain surgery and "life support"?

Are you also against flying? You know the saying, "If God wanted man to fly, he would have created us with wings!" Automobiles are also an unnatural means of travel. Should we still be enslaving pack animals instead of using unnatural methods of travel?

I don't understand people who say that birth control get's in the way of God's/ natures will.

Speaking from personal experience....if God and or nature ( whatever you personally call it) decides a woman will become pregnant then it can happen regardless of any futile attempts to prevent it by using birth control. Unless we abstain then none of us holds 100% power over procreation. Every woman who gets pregnant despite doing everything humanly possible to prevent it ( bar abstinence) will understand there is a greater force at work that doesn't give a damn which method of birth control you use!


This said....I am not advocating that people don't use birth control. I am of the same mind of many others that it is a responsible thing to practise. I just don't get mans arrogance that argues that taking a pill or putting something on the end of it equates to stifling Gods will or going against nature. As when desired, both always get their way regardless of what actions we take to the contrary!

Thank you to the people who stayed on topic. A lot went off into Economics which this was not about. I might have set this thread up to fail by implying but not explaining myself. So I apologize for any confusion. Also asking me questions about other beliefs I hold are again off topic. I am amazed that no one has my point of view because I know that they are out there. Maybe they are simply afraid to reply here. Some came close. I preferred the answers based on nature or religion. Or I'm going to have to have an abortion which is worse which one person posted.

I do not feel it is selfish to have children I feel it is selfish to not have them. I have seen this first hand. By a lot of your opinions we should put children on birth control when they hit puberty. That wouldn't be so controversial in the real world if everyone agreed with you. I believe Gods plan of no sex before marriage and no adultery keeps us happy and healthy people. I have also known some Mormon families who were absolutely the happiest people on earth. Although it might be wrong I have found myself envying their life.

I was partially raised by my grand parents and they told me about their time. Constant parental supervision and no sex before marriage. As a matter of fact my grandmother told me that if a girl even sat on another guys lap they refused to ever associate with her again. To me birth control only promotes sex before marriage and adultery. To me it is complete selfishness. If we cannot control ourselves are we no better then the animals that wander this planet? Therefore I place myself above those animals because I do control myself and always have.

If I can, so can you. Fact is most people do not want to and the more people that do it the more people give in. It just seems all of this is eroding the family unit and leading us down a path of only having single parents in our society. Which to me is a sad state of humanity where we will only produce inferior individuals. Anyhow thank you all and maybe in the future I will post something a little more clear.

reply to post by Pimpintology



Buddy The Pope and all his minions are allegedly celibate so what the hell does Catholicism know about birth control?

Lets face it they know more about persecuting and murdering midwives than they do about bringing children into the world, would that not come under mass genocide?

Now there is a subject that are most assuredly well versed in!

en.wikipedia.org... Inquisition

en.wikipedia.org... Crusades

reply to post by Pimpintology


I understand your view on why we all shouldn't use birth control. That is indeed an ideal situation. That is, in Divine Love, it is what we all want deep down inside. However, most of mankind do not have the self control to practice abstinence, which is what God wants. Am I saying that if a family only want two kids, they should stop having sex for the rest of their lives? Absolutely. Sounds tough doesn't it? Sure it is, if your life focus is still on the physical and material world. There are Masters of the Spirit in times past who actually got married, but stayed celibate their entire lives, including their wife. Because they focused all of their energy on meditating and love for God and all things. Having sex does require a lot of energy. Every time when you have sex, a significant portion of your light have been lost. And it may take up to a week to get it back. Wives who are spiritual know this. So they agree with their husbands in increasing God's light within by staying celibate, even while married. It is not difficult once your consciousness has been attuned to God in Oneness. Your desires for the physical decreases more and more as your Spirit Mind increases.

You are asking, "Why do these Masters get married in the first place?" For one, marriage is a micro version of Heavenly Attributes. What this means is that in Heaven, God views all forms of life, spiritual or physical, in a male and female union, complements of each and not opposites. It is not necessarily in a viewpoint of man and woman, but more in the masculine and feminine powers of God, forming a single Unity in order for creation to bloom. You see, all creation in the physical that you see and hear with your senses were born from the dual powers of God, Mother and Father aspects of God. I will not go into great detail of how that works. You can read my first thread to understand this concept. This is also why it is of great importance to get married before having sex. Because you have not completed the "Circle of Life" until a man and woman has been officially became ONE in both the eyes of the public and within yourselves. This allows your God Spirit within to fully blossom when a married couple have both a physical and spiritual union. It is possible to have only a spiritual union, since that is what God is looking to teach you in this lesson of life. By also having physical unity, this allows a man and woman to better understand the concepts of ONENESS of Heaven.

With this explanation, I am saying that people should not rely on birth control nor have sex before marriage. Have Love for The Spirit of God, not of the flesh, and your Light within will grow without bounds.

reply to post by ctophil


Why does so much religion or "spirituality" have such an aversion to sex and sexuality?

Could it be that we all want to believe we are higher beings yet our sexual instincts show us that we aren't all that different from all the other animals?

If there is an eternal spiritual realm by denying ourselves the joys of the non spiritual we would be lesser people. In an eternal existence which is being claimed then 99.99999999% or more will not be on earth. Why would you willingly keep yourself ignorant of what it has to offer.
It's like a kid who wants to be an adult too quick and forgoes his childhood.

If God created these urges for us only to suppress them there is a problem with God and not with us.

reply to post by Krahzeef_Ukhar


"Why does so much religion or "spirituality" have such an aversion to sex and sexuality?"

That's just Judaism, Christianity and the Muslim faith pretty much all of them before that incorporated sex into there rituals by way of sympathetic magic.

Then again some of the others also practiced animal and even Human sacrifice. Apparently there is power to be had in blood sacrifice.

reply to post by ctophil

Having sex does require a lot of energy. Every time when you have sex, a significant portion of your light have been lost.

Should religious people also abstain from running marathons, working out, taking jobs that require hard labor? In fact, doesn't any average 9 to 5 job take "your light"?

reply to post by Pimpintology

To me birth control only promotes sex before marriage and adultery.

You are probably not married, because birth control promotes healthy marriages. You seem to think that married women who take birth control only do so because they want to have sex with men who are not their husbands. You are wrong, and more than a little insulting.

reply to post by Pimpintology

What do you guys think? I would honestly like to hear both sides not just one side. Please tell me what you base your view off of.

Well I assume the basis for it being right or wrong is the termination of life and what we deem that criteria to be. So I would say we differ there since yours is theological and mine is not. According to your religious belief even that sperm is sacred and instilled with the 'spark of life'. Right? Well I am basing my ethical view on the lack of consciousness precluding any moral concern. It's not wrong because that potential human is not suffering.

reply to post by Pimpintology

To me it is complete selfishness. If we cannot control ourselves are we no better then the animals that wander this planet? Therefore I place myself above those animals because I do control myself and always have.

If I can, so can you.

Yes we could. Perhaps though we don't agree we should.

You're free to place yourself above us on faith-based arguments alone, but I choose to be more pragmatic. Sex is clearly an important component to a vast number of relationships. Important to the health of the relationship. Your claim that essentially abstinence outside of procreation is the key to a healthy and happy marriage is complete bollocks. Reality just doesn't reflect that.

Pimpintology


I was partially raised by my grand parents and they told me about their time. Constant parental supervision and no sex before marriage. As a matter of fact my grandmother told me that if a girl even sat on another guys lap they refused to ever associate with her again. To me birth control only promotes sex before marriage and adultery. To me it is complete selfishness. If we cannot control ourselves are we no better then the animals that wander this planet? Therefore I place myself above those animals because I do control myself and always have.

Hate to break it to you but your grandparents flat out lied to you. All available evidence suggests that teens engaging in premarital sex has not really changed a great deal in the last 200 years. There never was this golden age of morality you think there was.

And while the Catholic Church may not condone the use of birth control, most Catholic women in the US have had or are using it. Long gone are the days of the Catholic family with a dozen kids living in a three bedroom bungalow with a converted attic. There really is no religious argument against birth control. People frequently will cite Onan as a reason but even that story is less about practicing Birth Control and more about refusing to fulfill his duty to provide an heir for his deceased brother because his wife could not inherit his property.

I have been on birth control since the age of 16. Your entire thought process is wrong BC does not equal promiscuity.

Now let's address your claim that BC is "unnatural". 90% of the activities people engage in daily are infact unnatural (the remaining 10% is being extremely generous). IF we were to live a life of doing what we are naturally equipped to do, we would still be running around naked hunting and gathering corpses and fruit. The fact is we live decidedly "unnatural" lives in an "unnatural" society and have broken our "natural" methods of population control so the only acceptable response is that we find artificial methods of limiting how much we reproduce.

KeliOnyx
And while the Catholic Church may not condone the use of birth control, most Catholic women in the US have had or are using it.

The last statistic I saw on this was that Catholic families who use 'natural family planning' are below the 10% mark. That means more than 90% of Catholic families have shaken off the threat of hellfire for Onanism and are using common sense birth control measures ('The pill, condoms, etc).

** Those are stats from like 15 years ago. I'm sure they are probably even better now ...