The aliens we DON'T want to meet

I have gone back and forth between my personal opinion regarding whether or not there even are other civilizations either in the galaxy, the intergalactic neighborhood and in the universe in general.
Most likely, I would assume that there are in fact at least a few alien civilizations scattered around the galaxy but I would also assume that they are far and few between. After all, coming from a naturalistic world-view, even if there is life on other planets; despite the variety of species that have come and gone on planet Earth alone over the course of 3.5 billion years, only one has ever reached a level of "highly" sophisticated technology. And that would be us of course.

Now, even if there are alien civilizations out there, I nowadays after much consideration would not expect us to find any one of them and neither any one of them ever finding us, not to mention contacting or visiting. That considering not only the vast distances that either they themselves or their signals would have to travel but also the huge amount of energy that it would require to use even the most plausible speculative technologies that we are dreaming about today, such as wormholes and faster than light travel. At least to me, it simply doesn't seem neither economical nor logical to spend such great quantities of resources to visit another species. And as depressing as it is, contacting one is also bordering on being too much of an effort.

Even if an alien civilization would have developed faster than light travel somehow, one could only hope that they also had invented faster than light communication as well because even if they would send a few individuals to visit us, even if they came from the closest star system in the neighborhood; it would still take a tiresome amount of time for them to report back to their own planet what situation would unravel once they reached us. And no matter what would have happened, once their message would reach their home-world, there wouldn't be much that they would be able to do but say "okay, but you know that you are on your own, right? But good luck!".

In short terms, science fiction is extremely entertaining. It even happens to be my favorite genre of both literature and films. However, I highly doubt that there is any need at all to worry about what possible kinds of intelligent alien species that may or may not exist out there, no matter how malevolent or benevolent they could be. It really wouldn't make much of a difference, unless they suddenly appeared at our planetary doorstep, which is very unlikely considering the above mentioned.

But, it is really interesting to speculate about what other kinds of intelligent species there could exist.

How about no brainer and undetectable aliens ? Got to put that into the gang also.
Let me pick a few...

Ebola, H1N1, HIV....uh what else ? Pretty much easy to meet them even though they extinct (?).
Its in our DNA, the "junk part" perhaps. Scientist say that, not me!
Using comets as spaceship, no disguise needed and once on earth, surely they felt it like early summer, warm and nice.

Probably the penicillin is from Zerg planet, it ate other bacterias!

Would any of you be open to an actual scientific perspective/debate on this issue or are you more interested in sci-fi doom porn scenarios?

There is very little reason scientifically for an advanced alien species to do most of what you see in alien disaster movies or talked about in this thread.

Almost zero.

On the other hand there are many reason they would want to leave us alone, again based on what we know about the universe, its resources, the abundance of habitable worlds and so on.

You're upset about some drawings on gold records attached to very slow moving space probes when our planet has been sending out a signal at the speed of light that life is here for about 3.5 billion years?

Anyone who would do us harm, already would have done it, many years ago, probably before the human race even existed. Our technology has also been detectable since the steam era as well...

I've explained this before in another thread but if you want to hear it again let me know. I study this and other related stuff on a daily basis.

How do we know that they haven't already been here seen obama on tv and said "we have got to quarantine that arm of the milky way, that stuff could be contagious" or even better, maybe they were in the neighborhood, stopped to watch for a while, saw how many times we sent probes to mars, looked at each other, laughed, and said "organ donors" at the same time and went spacing along they're merry way! or maybe they were scared off by zap brannigan and the awesome might of d.o.o.p. !

reply to post by JadeStar


To reject such thing is pretty absurd.
When you deal with the unknown, you must accept unknown outcome.
For us, it normal to eat with mouth, but who knows, some of them think that is disgusting ?

By calculations, very high probability they wont probably do that, but nature doesnt always work that way.
Simple scenario, UGG from planet AGG saw us, directly attack and destroy us, without even a blink, its like "huh?, humans!, BAM". We would find that too much aggresive and out of nowhere.
Little do we know, UGG was probably fighting another alien who try to destroy them, they look exactly like us, warring for eons. A mistaken identity, yet it probably can happen, right ?

When you deal with the unknown, you must accept unknown outcome.

reply to post by JadeStar


Ok, where do it start?

Would any of you be open to an actual scientific perspective/debate on this issue or are you more interested in sci-fi doom porn scenarios?

I believe it was Stephen Hawking who said "We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn't want to meet" now which side is he on, the scientific side or the sci-fi doom porn side?

There is very little reason scientifically for an advanced alien species to do most of what you see in alien disaster movies or talked about in this thread.

Almost zero.

I agree with you, there would be no scientific reason or biological imperative that would make an alien species attack us. But I'm talking about cultural reasons, those that we cannot comprehend, look at the massive cultural divides on our own planet, let alone another species.

On the other hand there are many reason they would want to leave us alone, again based on what we know about the universe, its resources, the abundance of habitable worlds and so on.

I agree in part, they would not come to scour the earth for resources like Hollywood would lead us to believe. But saying that they will leave us alone is a dangerous assumption, unless you've actually met them and know their motives.

You're upset about some drawings on gold records attached to very slow moving space probes when our planet has been sending out a signal at the speed of light that life is here for about 3.5 billion years?

What signal? are you suggesting that the primordial amino acids are sending signals, or the planet itself?

Anyone who would do us harm, already would have done it, many years ago, probably before the human race even existed. Our technology has also been detectable since the steam era as well...

Firstly, nobody could do us harm if we didn't exist. Secondly, you're right. Some alien civilizations could be tuning in to early episodes of I dream of Jeannie as we speak, but they don't have to like it, and they could detest of humanities belief in magical creatures, after all they wouldn't know the concept of the early sixties sitcom.

I've explained this before in another thread but if you want to hear it again let me know. I study this and other related stuff on a daily basis.

Good luck with your research.

reply to post by abeverage


I literally had nightmares of the Borg when I was younger. One of my dreams were where they started assimilating my neighborhood. I looked out of the window and a group of Borg was heading in my way. Man, that was freaky! I certainly hope nothing like that is out there.

As for the thread itself, highly interesting and thanks for creating it. I believe that we're all the same. We're all money grubbing, resource hungry beings that could care less about "lesser" life-forms. The only difference between us and a potential alien threat is the fact that they're just like us on a much, much larger scale. Instead of us invading countries to plunder things like oil, they invade entire planets to plunder all of the resources available.

Just because something or someone is advanced, doesn't mean they will give a rats rear end about you. I also am starting to think that we'd be nothing more than a simple nuisance. Like fire ants. They may leave us be because we post absolutely no threat to them. Nukes? They've disabled it. Conventional bombs? Might as well be throwing cotton balls. Bullets? Won't even hear it through their shiny armor.

Just like us when we mow down acres of land. Think we notice the snake biting our tractors tire?

NullVoid
reply to post by JadeStar

 

To reject such thing is pretty absurd.
When you deal with the unknown, you must accept unknown outcome.
For us, it normal to eat with mouth, but who knows, some of them think that is disgusting ?

By calculations, very high probability they wont probably do that, but nature doesnt always work that way.
Simple scenario, UGG from planet AGG saw us, directly attack and destroy us, without even a blink, its like "huh?, humans!, BAM". We would find that too much aggresive and out of nowhere.
Little do we know, UGG was probably fighting another alien who try to destroy them, they look exactly like us, warring for eons. A mistaken identity, yet it probably can happen, right ?

When you deal with the unknown, you must accept unknown outcome.

When you deal with intelligence you can make some valid predictions based on logic.

For instance.... Why invade earth when there are likely to be 1000 to 100,000 uninhabited Earths "they" could take without so much as firing a photon cannon for every inhabited planet they come across?

The capital "B" in the numbers in the chart below means Billion.






Habitable worlds are plentiful. Inhabited worlds, probably not so much. If simply looking for resources it is unlikely we'd be invaded.

Invasion is not some simple thing. Even on Earth. Invasion requires energy. Occupation requires energy and resources. (Just ask Napoleon or Hitler)

Interstellar travel requires A LOT of energy. Put all this together and there are better ways to get what you want in the universe than invading another planet.

This assumes they'd want to live on gravity wells like planets to begin with (which is a huge assumption given the freedom and energy saving that free floating space colonies provide).

So, there simply is NO logical reason for anyone to invade us for resources or food (anything they would want on Earth is plentiful in space or on thousands of other worlds likely closer to them), or slave labor (c'mon really? why not have guys riding horses with laser guns - if you can travel the stars you can build advanced nanobot laborers), DNA? (most likely incompatible with theirs for a number of very good biological reasons). Sex? (the 1950s are < --that way)...

So what else is there? We're not much of a threat to an advanced star travelling species so it wouldn't be to wipe out a potential adversary.

Not to mention, the fact that we're here talking about it means its unlikely since our solar system is young and the galaxy and universe are billions of years older.

Anyone who would have wanted to would have found us and ate us/destroyed us/lased us (or our distant ancestors) to smithereens by now and taken what they wanted.


Now......on the other hand imagine you are a million year old civilization. You've been there, done that. You may even have invaded a few planets during your more savage days. You're bored, there's little that impresses you. There's little that threatens you. You've mastered the laws of physics including some we do not currently know. You have nothing of interest other than perhaps attaining new unique information/technology/cultural experiences.

So you come across this average G-class star with an M-class planet with a technological species just beginning its baby steps into space. It's kinda quaint, cute, like your civilization was millions of years ago but quite a bit different in many ways.

You have technology to download the memories and life experiences of all sentient lifeforms to add them to your body of galactic knowledge. You can also download all their crudely stored electronic information at a distance.

What do you do? Destroy them? Or study them?

They pose no threat and they may evolve in new and interesting ways which you never saw before.... Or they may find a way to spectacularly destroy themselves, in which case, grab the galactic popcorn and sit back...

Annunak1
reply to post by Thecakeisalie

 

There has already been contact between aliens and humans. we got nothing that we can deal with them except human slaves.

I for one would love to see the factual evidence of this meeting? I am not saying you are anything other than honest but I need verifiable facts of this event!!

Thecakeisalie
reply to post by JadeStar

 

Ok, where do it start?

Would any of you be open to an actual scientific perspective/debate on this issue or are you more interested in sci-fi doom porn scenarios?

I believe it was Stephen Hawking who said "We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn't want to meet" now which side is he on, the scientific side or the sci-fi doom porn side?

This is oft quoted out of context.

That said...

Stephen Hawking says a lot of things these days which aren't very smart but they do get him attention.

He's not an astrobiolgist. Talk to an astrobiologist about the same issue and they tend to take a different view having studied the issue closer than Hawking.

His opinion on the matter is about as valid as your mechanics.

You don't go to a dentist for a heart operation. Don't listen to a theoretical physicist on issues of astrobiology. That was one of the dumbest things he's even said he has had reservations about it since he said it.

The first rule of astrobiology is to make no assumptions aliens will be anything like us.

He violated that first rule by anthropomorphizing aliens.

If he talks about high energy physics, black holes, time travel you listen to him. But if he talks about biology, specificallhy alien biologies, best to say, 'that's interesting' and read more about this stuff from people like Carl Sagan, Frank Drake, Jill Tarter, Geoff Marcy, Sara Seager, etc.

I'll get to the rest of your post tomorrow.

I can only imagine two plausible threats we could possibly expect from an alien civilization.

One is to enslave and use us as laborers.

The other is to eat us...And in this later case, it would be probable that we would
not be the only species from our planet consumed.


All other scenarios are improbable.

An alien species that had evolved the technology to travel across the galaxy
must surely have conquered their instinctual urge to conquer or destroy.
Otherwise they would have destroyed themselves.

And at the moment we humans are at THAT stage of development.
We are poised with our finger on the button of destruction.

We will have to evolve and learn not to place our most precious resource,
which is our ability to create, on war.

We aren't there yet.

My point is, we will have to conquer our instincts before we can conquer
our galaxy...lest we kill our own species. I believe that is the test of
any species anywhere in the universe...to shed the instinct
and replace it with intellect.

reply to post by JadeStar


Excellent post JadeStar, and mirrors my thoughts and feelings exactly.

You put it better than i did though...nice one.

projectbane

Annunak1
reply to post by Thecakeisalie

 

There has already been contact between aliens and humans. we got nothing that we can deal with them except human slaves.

I for one would love to see the factual evidence of this meeting? I am not saying you are anything other than honest but I need verifiable facts of this event!!

I would very much doubt that any proof exists. Assuming it happend, it would have been kept very highly secret, minimal paperwork to leave a trail, and any that could not be secured forever, would have been destroyed.

Only word of mouth accounts, which are not proof of anything unfortunately, are pretty much all we're going to get on that meeting if it did actually happen.

reply to post by rival


It's a logical theory and one i've thought about too over the years, but really though any species that have advanced to the levels where they can manufacture such miraculous technology, and social structures that would need to be in place beforehand, would propbably not require fleshy, fragile Humans to act as slaves for them...machines, based on advanced nano-tech would be a more relaible labour force, admittedly Humans can self replicate and self repair (to a degree) but not instantly as machine forms based on nanotech say a 1000 years into our future.

Machines, instantly formed into 'body shapes' to ideally suit their purpose and then instantly reformed into another form for a different task would be a more logical options than using us.

As far as eating us..again, with advanced technology in our own relatively near future, we probably won't require to farm, kill and then eat other animals ourselves, as we'll be able to manipulate protiens and grow our own 'meat', not a cow or sheep or chicken, but a slice or slab of it whenever we wished to.

An advanced ET might not even require food at all, getting all energy through basic elements and minerals and something like photosynthesis maybe...or create their own forms of food by rearranging atomic structures of just about anything.

I don't think we'd have much to worry about from ET..more to worry about from ourselves.

ABeing
despite the variety of species that have come and gone on planet Earth alone over the course of 3.5 billion years, only one has ever reached a level of "highly" sophisticated technology. And that would be us of course.

It is entirely possible that another type of being evolved on this planet and reached levels of civilisation we can't even start to imagine. They may have left the planet a long time ago. We would have no memories of them, as our species probably would not even have existed in their days. And their buildings, machines, cities and other creations we fail to understand may all have eroded away. We have this crazy belief that "older civilisations" would leave traces - but maybe they simply did not fancy or see the need for huge monuments or stone buildings. Look at us: if our species would leave the planet (or be extinguished, whatever), I guess a few hundred thousands of years would suffice to erase any trace of us.

It's most healthy and intelligent to not be locked into expectations and opinions based on the (ghastly-corrupt, secrecy-based) existing political world, which includes religions (if that needs to be specified) and "mainstream" or reactionary, militantly materialistic science (as we know it), as examples. Basically, one shouldn't expect Contact, if it happens, to be either all sunshine and pink unicorns OR the same as some idiotic violent video game or bad sci-fi movie.

I could see "ET" moving in and basically (or totally?) taking over this planet based at least primarily, if not solely, on the ecological imperative. There's a point of toxicity and resource depletion of which this planet and all its life is clearly on a collision course. Yes, that's rightly or wrongly from a perspective that the right moral and logical course of action is to preserve and regenerate (as much as possible) a biodiverse planet, whatever it takes, whatever will REALLY do the job. Just because too many people on this rock have no problem with treating their home like a disposable diaper and worse, it doesn't necessarily mean that such an attitude is ACCEPTABLE in the overall universal sense.

Bassago
reply to post by Thecakeisalie

 

I've long said that the idiots who attached all the information about us (the golden record) onto the Voyager 1 should have be locked up. That had to be one of the stupidest things humans have ever done.

The argument that because an alien race is technologically advanced means that they would by definition be peaceful is ridiculous.

I'm in total agreement here with you. When they sent Voyager 1, they made a decision for the entire human race. And that should never have been allowed to happen. We gave up the potentially planet-saving advantage of stealth. It was just plain stupid, and so risky we should have erred on the side of caution instead.

The sad part is, that may not affect this generation, or the next or 100 after that, because it could take centuries or millenia before it is ever found. But when it is, and I believe one day it will be, the ramifications of that could easily spell the end for Earth. In an instant. Survival of the fittest is a universal theme. It doesn't stop at the Earth's atmosphere.

Life having to consume other life for mere survival is a flawed concept to begin with. And theists can put that right up their God-pipes and smoke it. Still, the OP makes some very valid arguments, and I thought it was a very interesting post. Fortunately, religion is just a human thing. I'll bet most aliens are smarter than that.

rival
I can only imagine two plausible threats we could possibly expect from an alien civilization.

One is to enslave and use us as laborers.

The other is to eat us...And in this later case, it would be probable that we would
not be the only species from our planet consumed.


All other scenarios are improbable.

But is eating us really all that probable?

That's like me gearing up, tossing a shotgun over the shoulder, gather 50 friends and have them do the same... Then go out into the forest to find an anthill, sit down and start shooting ants in order to eat them.

Aliens should have more than enough leverage to make us feed them instead (ie use us as laborers). Just station a bloody carrier with orbital cannons above the planet. What are we going to do, shoot some puny missiles at them? Wipe out a few nations and people will probably change their minds.

IF? there were beings found on a nearby planet that could with their minds generate time space reality changes (Worm hole and portals stargates) associated with what is perceived as imagination or deep thought manifesting or that had an eternal meta energy that can be utilized (as long as the beings are not aware) once captured/subdued, would humanity attempt to apprehend these beings or leave them be to their own practices if humanity could extend life in the human body longer by say 10,000 EA*RTH-SOL years?

@ times 1 feels like Existence is sort of a relay race one species advances and then from that species developments another species can be upgraded.

Consider a species was dominate and kept other species from getting out of control and protected them even. Removal of dominate species may provide access from another species less comfortable to interact with as the dominate species nonpresence creates a void.

If Amphibious, Insectoids, other Mammals, Reptilians or biological suited Energy beings were Guiding and Overseeing humanity genetically and Spiritually (in a joint process) and then somehow were removed or left after war or after completing set genetic/spiritual process goals.
The removal or exit of such energies could cause a vacuum of power and influence and another species who sat outside the galaxy, due to their "interaction levels" outside their species being high risk level so forced to remain OUTSIDE, now comes inside the areas they were not permitted to interact within for many periods as the Amphibious, Insectoids, other Mammals, Reptilians or biological suited Energy beings kept them away.

They would then become new influence or interest in this region and may see other uses or needs for EA*RTH & other SOL space inhabitants Humans included.

This is why the more AWARE some may become its important to SEE beyond the shell or environment suit containing the Energy within. For some deemed evol or that are feared here by humans due to them being different may be protecting this little SOUL growth chamber-hive-installment-lab-nest and its many inhabitants from less peaceful energies forced to stay away...

Sad part is many humans wouldn't realize until an absence of their presence was felt globally. And the new presence came in.
1 can imagine galactic wars being spawned from such activities.

It would be wise to block some transmissions from exiting EA*RTH or other inhabited space so far out from broadcast point. Intelligence would place a transmission filter far enough out to capture the past/present electronic audio and video wi fi data transmissions (how could Humans tell?) if this was the case w/o being way out in the regions said to be where transmissions reached by now?
The gold plate would make a nice collection piece for outside observers watching the humans develop and advance as they smile at the development stage of humans or frown due to humans not knowing who they may almost of contacted ignorantly.

This is all subjective in discussion but felt it was something many may not consider as they postulate the OTHER CREATOR Creations that may be in the local vicinity of man dimension or distance wise.

An Angel like being has to be designed to defend against demon like beings if needed and so may carry attributes and characteristics of perceived demonic behaving kinds but internally and consciously are completely different in intent and agendas commanded or followed.

Bassago
reply to post by Thecakeisalie

 

I've long said that the idiots who attached all the information about us (the golden record) onto the Voyager 1 should have be locked up. That had to be one of the stupidest things humans have ever done.

The argument that because an alien race is technologically advanced means that they would by definition be peaceful is ridiculous.

That disk is meaningless anyway. Radio waves from Earth travel much faster and they get more information about them. And I believe understanding radio waves could be easier for them than understanding the golden disk. You have any idea how far the humanity's first radio waves are compared to where Voyager 1 is?

And if they have technology capable of interstellar travel, they most likely have very advanced instruments to gain information about us, like 1 000 m wide telescope. We humans planned 100 m wide telescope "Overwhelmingly Large Telescope", but it was too expensive and difficult to make. Aliens could easily have such things.

And that Golden Disc will be impossible to find after long time, even for aliens. After it runs out of power and it floats in interstellar space, its almost invisible. It doesn't have large surfaces to reflect light anywhere, it doesn't even get the light. And by the time if arrives to another Star system, we will most likely be gone already, or became space civilization. Even with alien technology, how you would find small car from absolutely dark space?