Calling all atheists

reply to post by ColeYounger

A very well written opening post. It is almost frightening to see how easily people believe atheist rhetoric. Materialists have now retreated into a multiverse that there is no evidence for and argue that everything came from absolutely nothing. Any world view that retreats to such extremes needs to be rethought. Many atheists have bought into the simplistic view of religion that the pop science writers have spitefully promoted and imagine that people are religious because they believe in a book that was written in the Bronze Age. Most religious people don't have the time or interest to analyse the Old Testament. For most, religion is a more immediate thing based on intuition and consciousness. Personally I have no interest in the story of Noah - there is probably some reality behind it (the flood is reported in many cultures) and it has been dressed up as a religious story. These things are too far back in time to be reported accurately.

As for the fairy in the sky comments...they don't really help atheists to understand belief.

reply to post by tsingtao

naw, there are believers, agnostics and non-believers. most against christianity.
rarely against norse or roman or greek or even sumarians, egyptian, or any other believers.

This was a post for Pinke so I apologize for butting in but I felt the need on behalf of anti-theists to which you are calling out to say we are not isolating our opposition to Christianity. If it seems that way it's merely circumstantial, and more than likely due to the fact the majority of threads are related to that religion. We are in fact against the idea any religions are coming from any gods.

Since you brought up other religions and called out atheists…. I am curious as to your response to this. Not an unfamiliar question. If you don't believe in the existence of Vishnu or Zeus, if you dismiss their existence, how does that make you different than the atheist that dismiss's your god? Truly. Spell it out for me.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Lice00

 

I mean if going out of your way to be antagonistic to people just because you feel their beliefs have had some negative impact on our world

My feelings are not required that's an empirical fact.

makes you feel good then great. I just fail to see the big difference in the anti-theists and any other neo-nazi type hate group.

Makes us feel good? Hate group?

If that's all you gather from these situations then pay closer attention. This isn't about us atheists trying to win an internet fight or feel good. Maybe for some but that doesn't negate the issue! It's recognizing something that is damaging in society and believing in the idea the pen is mightier than the sword. Through debate and discussion change might be brought about. Happens all the time in other avenues of life. Or maybe it won't in most cases but later they might recall arguments and god-forbid question their beliefs accordingly. What feels good to me is the idea that people are free to collaborate ideas and have a discussion. Is this so wrong? It's fair game for the religious to spread the 'good word' but not the anti-theist to have a say? For them to do so it's analogous to a hate group?

what IS the issue?

you are welcome to your beliefs, can i call them that?

goes both ways for a hate group, don't it?

do you need to be spotted a couple points?

i got no problem with dialog, but what base are you people debating from?

your own ideas?

reply to post by tsingtao

and how has christianity impacted your world?

Our World.

I could spend the entire night on this.

Let's name one. Religious beliefs that quite clearly affect laws passed towards LGBT Rights.

That's a very obvious and tangible effect. If you need more I will provide. I can be more esoteric if you wish.

boymonkey74
reply to post by tsingtao

 

Anti theist..Iam one too

I believe in God but despise Religion for the same reasons Lucid has stated, Religion has brainwashed you and others to fall for someone elses version of the truth and that truth is so far beyond what God will be I and other anti theists will try and show others that Religion is a tool to make money for Preists, look in the 2nd book of the Bible you have to give money to priests to get into heaven...its a scam.
Figure it out yourself and stop being a sheep/slave heck the priests even have you calling God Lord..wonder why? for you to accept human lords much easier.

you have no idea, do you.

maybe you should watch fox more.

make money for priests?
i call God Lord, not any man.

who is the sheep here? are you not following someone? are you your own star or do you get inline?

as someone said, there are 30k somethings of christianity.
you people have anywhere near that number?

so who do you think are sheeps? or shoops. or lemmings? or whatever you want to call yourselves.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by tsingtao

 

God has unconditional love

Is God the embodiment of love?

If so, then Heaven is a place of love.

Is Hitler going to Heaven?

I assume you believe he is going to Hell.

Hell is an eternal place separate from Heaven.

Therefore eternally distant from love.

Hitler is not going to be loved eternally.

Thus God's love is conditional.

Hey I would agree with not loving Hitler (tho I wouldn't condemn anyone to eternal torture!). Still you need to recognize the break in logic here about 'unconditional love'. Clearly when there are prerequisites to being in god's good grace and entering eternal life in a loving paradise there are conditions to be met….

The travesty here is that it's not just the Hitler types that are *allegedly* going but good people too. People you said yourself you would happily transport by train.

edit on 6-1-2014 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

I ca understand where you see the disconnect because it is very big however there are many beliefs made from very misinformed statements .

The scriptures say ZERO about a "place" called "heaven.It is a religious extrapolation.It only written about the Kingdom (realm ) of the creator God.Sometimes called the Kingdom of "THE heavens"."Heaven" is not in the Greek manuscripts).These "heavens" are "ALL of mankind"...sometimes called "the temple of the creator God"...and yes it's metaphorical.It can't be "known" because it is not of this realm in another "age".

At the present time in the physical realm man lives in "their" heavens.Their "mind"(which is not "in" the brain..it is only a transducer)...the religious carnal mind has concocted the fantasy of "eternal heaven"...and hell..which is also not in the scriptures.There is no "place" that is the eternal punishment of hell.Hell is translated from 4 words the main one being "hades" which means the grave..the realm of the dead...the realm of imperception.

You are absolutely correct that the Christians are VERY wrong about these and about most(all) of their doctrines.My suggestion is... if you want to debate them about such issues ....do a little studying of the scriptures by subject(it is not necessary to become and expert..no one is ).Read it with common sense and extreme lack of prejudice.All of this is easily discoverable and very few of them know anything at all about it because it is hid from them.What they believe is all easily disproved with evidence by the book they believe in.

I understand the point the original poster made about the poking fun at the 'man in the sky' etc, but when one goes back to when the Hebrew and Christian bibles (and other pertinent books such as the Torah) were written and their tales, we get down to semantics.

The biblical religion seem to me to have been created to reach at least three very varied groups of people: We are told one group, the original priesthood who are really responsible fot it, were inventing and borrowing myths from other peoples and moulding them into an artificial history they would use to give a non-descript group of people an identity. Later to those who were initiated into its 'inner teachings' and then onto the rest of the 'general public so it had to be literal and easy to digest and in truth wonderous or otherwise the Priesthood would never have converted people away from the beliefs of their forefathers.

Today most of the cynical attitude towards gullibility in believing in things like 'born of a virgin' and 'the resurrection' are understandable simply because society wants proof. Today you have to prove everything you say and logic is the balance we use and it has overtaken intuition, gut feelings etc.

We also see the underside of the Priesthood which manages religion in the West and many of us don't want anything to do with its corruption, self protectionism and the groups of people who seem to profit, launder money and effectively, by using the cover of things like Papal Banking run the world at the exploitation of the people we learn through religious principals we should all be helping and caring about.

Personally I also feel there is a move back to the older ways and in a quiet, but assertive manner, the ancient belief in the principles of the Goddess is returning. I don't mean that we will revert but perhaps 'a balancing' is taking place. I know when I visit my local Henge I feel real spiritual peace and nourishment I certainly never got from any of the religious services I have attended in the past.

reply to post by tsingtao


No I don't follow anyone's version of God, I use my own god given mind to have a relationship with her.
I see the religious as lazy just falling for someone elses idea of God.
And no I will not watch Fox news seeing it is mostly right wing christians bashing anyone else who isn't one of them.

I'm an agnostic (leaning more towards atheist.)

I don't ever attack people for their views. Although sometimes I shake my head at some of the things I see people say pertaining to religion.

I don't exactly care what people believe. But at least don't pick up a book and read it, then all of a sudden thing you know all of the secrets of the universe or something. Just because it was a well written book, doesn't mean you should base your entire life on it. I find that to be very suspicious and gullible quite frankly. Human beings are completely full of it (for the most part.) And I find it suspicious when some guy walking around nicely dressed, with a big grin on their face, spouting off how they know all the tips, tricks, and steps to get closer to the divine, or make it to paradise (heaven.)

We don't even know everything about ourselves and our planet. Yet, we somehow know what has created the universe, where we're going, and any other age old question? Seems a bit silly to me honestly.

I've always encouraged people to look around all over if they want answers. Most people are only within a religious faction because they were born into it, or married into such as Jewish custom. It's no wonder why that is. People were never subjected to different ideologies.

I'm up for anything that makes sense, and can be plausible. I usually base my beliefs on probability. But it seems like too many people are desperately hanging onto the past. Nobody ever wants to redefine their culture or religion to fit into the 21st century. And that's one reason why I admire science. Sure, most of the time their just speculating, and are probably wrong. But at least their trying to push for a better universal understanding. I have never seen a religious faction trying to update any of their teachings with more modern methods. Instead, they usually just read the religious books and claim that this event is unfolding, and that we are entering some sort of divine prophesy. A whole lot of "I told you so."

So, in closing. as a agnostic/somewhat atheist, I really don't care what people believe. But before you come to an internal understanding, at least look around in many places, and ask your self a lot of questions. Don't just say screw it and believe in a certain faction because it's easy or "the other people are doing it."

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by tsingtao

 

naw, there are believers, agnostics and non-believers. most against christianity.
rarely against norse or roman or greek or even sumarians, egyptian, or any other believers.

This was a post for Pinke so I apologize for butting in but I felt the need on behalf of anti-theists to which you are calling out to say we are not isolating our opposition to Christianity. If it seems that way it's merely circumstantial, and more than likely due to the fact the majority of threads are related to that religion. We are in fact against the idea any religions are coming from any gods.

Since you brought up other religions and called out atheists…. I am curious as to your response to this. Not an unfamiliar question. If you don't believe in the existence of Vishnu or Zeus, if you dismiss their existence, how does that make you different than the atheist that dismiss's your god? Truly. Spell it out for me.

yeah, the age old question.
zeus, he was hen pecked by hera.

vishnu? brahma and shiva took care of local stuff.

anyone else that has human characteristics?

kronos? baal? quatsicoatile? (sp)

they were not gods.

reply to post by tsingtao


So in other words you dismiss their existence as nonsense for your own personal reasons.

Just like the atheist dismisses yours.

Thanks for proving my point.

why does it bother you to hear people telling you,
you are going to hell?

Read the thread. Again. Answered that a few times.

and why use hitler to "hypothetically" insult and attack me?

Why did you so gleefully talk about personally transporting atheists to eternal torture? To attack us?

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by tsingtao

 

and how has christianity impacted your world?

Our World.

I could spend the entire night on this.

Let's name one. Religious beliefs that quite clearly affect laws passed towards LGBT Rights.

That's a very obvious and tangible effect. If you need more I will provide. I can be more esoteric if you wish.

lol!!!! seriously? gays want to change the church?

why? marriage is only consecrated between a man and a woman. get a friggin civil union. did peter marry paul?

ya, get all esoteric on me. go for it.

"1,500 years ago, everybody knew that the Earth was the center of the universe.
500 years ago, everybody knew that the Earth was flat.
And 15 minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet.
Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."

mib

reply to post by tsingtao


Human characteristics? like Jesus...he was also not a God but just a decent fella.
What about other faiths Gods? Hindus for example a billion people believe in them but wait because it isn't your brand they must be wrong eh?.

reply to post by tsingtao

lol!!!! seriously? gays want to change the church?

You asked me directly for an example. Sorry it was not satisfactory for you.

I'll use another then.

Your religion instills a belief that we have definitive answers to ultimate questions. We don't. It's a bad belief. It's a great thing we have people that believe we don't yet have these answers and strive to find them.

boymonkey74
reply to post by tsingtao

 

No I don't follow anyone's version of God, I use my own god given mind to have a relationship with her.
I see the religious as lazy just falling for someone elses idea of God.
And no I will not watch Fox news seeing it is mostly right wing christians bashing anyone else who isn't one of them.

edit on 6-1-2014 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

yeah, i bet.

you are your own god, is lucid a bigger god than you?

are you equal?

i think he is a bigger god than you. hypothetically, that is.

how do you feel being a minor god?

reply to post by tsingtao


Who said I was God, I have my own God but I will not try to convert or preach about her, It is a personal relationship one I will not share with anyone.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Another is that they try and instil fear into us for being what we are..human, I accept the light side and the dark side of humanity but I know which feels right and which doesn't I don't need threats of eternal torment to be a decent chap.
Religion can make a good man do evil things and has done on many occasions.
Other people use religion as a tool to make others do what they want...my example of this is in the bible like I said...giving your money to the priests or you will not goto heaven.
God wouldn't have made any Relgion at all, I bet she weeps at the thought of it.