is Apple becoming a sellout?

Using and judgng Apple computing equipment verses the products of companies depends on what you are using them for. As a musician, the iPad is currently the only choice, for a number of reasons (which I have gone into a fair amount of depth on another thread), and any other tablet will give an inferior, if not unusable result.

Things like pricing, appearance, brand recognition, and so- on are a matter of pesonal preference. Where it ultimately matters is with regards to performance and functionality. In my case, and for my own purposes, the iPad is indeed superior to any other tablet currently on the market. This can and will change as tech companies compete for the dollars of the consumer, but currently if you want to use MIDI on a tablet, Apple is the only game in town.

reply to post by cuckooold


I completely agree there are good and valid reasons to choose an Apple product. Those reasons apply to probably 1% of the people who buy Apple though.

cuckooold
but currently if you want to use MIDI on a tablet, Apple is the only game in town.

edit on 24-12-2013 by cuckooold because: iPads may be great for MIDI, but they absolutely suck for typing on.

Its like i said earlier..
If you are an artist then you will lead towards a MAC.
If you are in the business/IT world then you will lean towards Windows and Linux.

reply to post by opethPA


I do most of my music on a PC; the PC is used for recording, linking my hardware synthesisers together, virtual instruments, as well as the bulk of my composition. The iPad however fulfils the job of wireless MIDI controller with amazingly low latency.

Probably 90% of the musical work I do requiring computers is done on PC. There is little (if any) difference in performance between the platforms, and I do not lean one way or another, except in terms of efficiency of performance.

Music making on desktop computers is fairly mature, and in my opinion the differences between platforms are largely cosmetic. Tablet computing is still in its infancy, hence large disparities in capabilities as they slowly become more focused, in the way in which consumers use these devices . If Google decide music making abilities are a worthwhile selling point they will no doubt upgrade their hardware. Apple have always provided for musicians, at least as far back as the Apple IIe, and continue to to do so up to the current day with their tablets and phones.

I am in no way a fan-boy for Apple, and I have plenty of criticism (as do many) about ways they lock down their systems that other manufacturers do not. I will however acknowledge that they have a beautiful aesthetic with many of their products, and in terms of creating a unified whole ecosystem which caters for all their current hardware, I consider them heads and shoulders above the rest of the competition (if it can be called that), with regards to this aspect. I see huge potential negative implications (and have experienced a couple myself), but I believe they've created a system that helps focus and incorporate our electronic devices (yes, largely Apple, but other devices can play albeit in a slightly more limited way) into our lives in a way that we can (hopefully) rely on the hardware without having to be so computer savvy (my mother can use her Mac-book, iPad, and iPhone without too many difficulties and requires little help - she's 73 and seldom used computers until Facebook came along and Apple's Facetime so she can talk to her grandchildren).

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Buying a smaller and lighter product generally incurs a cost premium as much more effort needs to be made to get the system small enough. Ultrabooks are always more expensive than Sleekbooks, Vivobooks, and regular notebooks. This is why I am emphasising that the Macbook Air is an ultrabook and that ASUS is simply not.

If you brang the size of the Macbook Air up to that of the ASUS and fitted a cheap 15.6 inch 1366x768 screen, made the case thicker to allow for a slow, power hungry, hard disk, then removed the expensive Haswell CPU, the Macbook "Air" would end up costing significantly less than it does now. It would then become a rather mediocre product, like the ASUS, rather than something special, which is what Apple is all about.

So, saying the Macbook Air is overpriced because some low-end cheap and nasty ASUS laptop has a similar processor is like saying the ASUS is overpriced because for $650 I could build a faster desktop computer. It doesn't matter. There is a reason it costs as much as it does, it is primarily related to the form factor and SSD. Compare it do other similar products like the ASUS Zenbook Prime, Dell XPS13, HP Spectre XT. You'l find that they all cost similar to the Macbook Air.

Also, the real life responsiveness of the systems will not be equal because the Macbook has a PCI-E SSD whereas the ASUS only has a slow HDD. If you owned a computer business then I am surprised you wouldn't find a SSD significant.

You compare the different screens of the two, yet completely leave out the fact the ASUS is a TOUCHSCREEN. You mention it, then ignore it later.

This statement doesn't make any sense. I "completely leave out" despite mentioning it?

Unless you have specific touch-enabled applications in mind, we can’t recommend paying too much extra for a touchscreen. However, considering they’re now being included on even budget laptops, touchscreens do offer a fresh way to interact with your computer.

apcmag.com...

I ran a quick search on JB-HIFI and Kogan Online, extremely popular consumer electronics stores, to find products similar to the Macbook Air:

www.jbhifi.com.au...

www.jbhifi.com.au...

www.kogan.com...

www.kogan.com...

Arguably the Macbook Air is the worst product there - but it is also the cheapest.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I don't see how you can possibly be serious making such a comment. This thread is absolutely full of people bashing the sort of people who buy Apple products. Here are some examples:

Overpriced and trendy does indeed sell too, because Asch Conformity.
Make everyone think that everyone else is buying it and everyone will.

Implies that people who buy Apple products are what most users would consider to be "sheeple".

To me the type of person who buys an Apple product is the same type of person who will spend £150 on a pair of jeans because they have the right label on them- the sort of person who equates more cost to greater quality.

Apple users care only about product image, rather than actual product quality.

Only people with no clue and no idea of what is trending will every buy an apple product because they are so behind the times they think its the best thing out there.

Apple users are idiots.

Being a Mac user isn't about having fun, it's about showing you're "better" then others. You're more "socially aware". I can't stand it and have become more and more reluctant to pull out my MacBook Air in public. (Seriously.)

Apple users think they're better than everyone else.

Aside: This is highly ironic since this thread is full of Apple haters who think they're better than Apple users.

This drives me nuts. I deal with an awful lot of seniors who's hipster children/grandchildren who buy them Apple products for whatever reason. Usually they repeat the tired lines of "Apple is easier" or "Apple can't get viruses."

Apple users are hipsters.

its not a coincidence that the only people who own apple computers/phones/tablets/MP3 players; are also the people who seem to know little about how to use computers or modern electronic technology in general.

Apple users are idiots who know nothing about technology.

You know so much better than these children, great thanks for keeping it real.

Apple users are children.

These were all before your response. Yet the moment somebody comments that people who bash Apple products can't afford them you state:

So this discussion isn't about the pro's/con's of the various devices, but rather is a display of social class?

Apparently bashing the type of people who buy Apple products OK, but any commenting on the type of people who hate Apple products get a knee-jerk reactionary response. How selective. In any case, I think it is entirely fair to say that those who bash Apple users or products are often extremely snobby people who think they are better than other people. This thread proves it. (and unlike them, I have more than anecdotal evidence to back this up).

If you really want to talk about the pros and cons then please go ahead and talk about the pros and cons?

reply to post by paranormal78


AFFORDABLE? Seriously? That is what apple has been about?

Don´t get me wrong, I have my iphone right here, so I don´t want to bash apple. But that company has NEVER been the cheap alternative to anything. It has always been more expensive than comparable PC´s. And that has never changed.

It has always been sold anyway, because people who don´t know much about pc´s could maybe use them more easily and with less fuzz than a pc.

But it has NEVER been cheap.

Just had to get that off my chest.

C0bzz
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Buying a smaller and lighter product generally incurs a cost premium

Pretty much every point you make can be summed up in one word. Wrong.

I already proved the ASUS is almost the same weight. The Mac Air 13" is 3lbs. The ASUS 13.3" is 3.3lbs.

Everything else is near identical. The ASUS has 6gb RAM vs. the Mac 4gb.

The Mac costs nearly twice as much.

ETA: I found the ASUS you listed as a "match" for $900. Just because you choose a place that has it for an inflated price doesn't make it more expensive. Also the Transformer Book is not a match for the Mac Air .. it's a completely different type of product.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Pretty much every point you make can be summed up in one word. Wrong.

Just saying it's wrong doesn't actually make it wrong. All you have done is make nonsense claims that a cheap laptop is somehow comparable to something more expensive when it doesn't even have a SSD.

I already proved the ASUS is almost the same weight. The Mac Air 13" is 3lbs. The ASUS 13.3" is 3.3lbs.

ASUS VivoBook S300CA does not include a SSD, instead has a big power hungry HDD. It does not have a Haswell processor. It is thicker (so no, it doesn't have the same form-factor). It has a worse screen albeit it is a touch screen. ASUS says it has "up to 3 hours and 35 minutes" of battery life whereas the Macbook Air has up to 12 hours.

ETA: I found the ASUS you listed as a "match" for $900

I live in Australia. Those prices were from Australia. They were the cheapest price here. Pay attention. However by running a search through major US stores I did indeed find the same laptop for $900 USD.

www.tigerdirect.com...

It was $100 off and had a 128 GB SSD. So normally it would be $1000. The Macbook Air with 128 GB SSD is $1100 in USA. $100 price difference. Big whoop. I would rather the ASUS because FHD screen.

Also, anyone can search around the net for an outlier price. In future please provide links to prevent being misleading.

Wikipedia has a list of Ultrabooks using the same platform as Macbook Air:

en.wikipedia.org...

Average price of the base model is $1205 (usually with 128 GB SSD). Macbook Air 128 GB is $1100, has better battery life than all of them, lacks a touchscreen, in general has a worse (non FHD) screen, and can't be transformed into a tablet like some of them.

reply to post by C0bzz


Asus Zenbook Prime UX32VD
$950, 128gb SSD, and has a dedicated Nvidia GeForce GT 620M graphics card, not simply the onboard video.

As well as a FAR superior screen in terms of quality as well as the fact it is a touch screen.

The one area the Mac will win though will be battery life.

C0bzzASUS VivoBook S300CA does not include a SSD, instead has a big power hungry HDD. It does not have a Haswell processor.

I never mentioned that one. Asus VivoBook S550CA-DS51T was the one I mentioned. It has a Haswell processor, the exact same one, I provided the specs back on page 1. It's a slightly lower performing version and is half the price. I then listed a better performing version for $950.

reply to post by MystikMushroom



On the point of quality and reliability I had to replace the screen on my iPod Touch after one year because the light stopped working.

A few months later it started locking up on me and resetting itself to factory settings.

Then the iOS update made my two year old $300 device incompatible with 90% of the App Store.

That's some landmark durability and longevity right there.

Meanwhile my 10 year old flip phone still works great.

Oh, can't forget the Bluetooth it wasn't supposed to have until suddenly it did. Reminded me of on-disc-DLC. It's there, you just can't use it until you pay extra for it.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Your not making any sense nor you are not being coherent at all. Let's go through things:


You first mentioned the Asus VivoBook S550CA-DS51T on page 1. here.

I then explained why the Asus VivoBook S550CA-DS51T was inferior to the Macbook Air (2013) since it was a much larger product, did not have a SSD, and had a different form factor. here.

You then mention "the 13.3"" ASUS" with no further information provided. here.

I further explain why the Asus VivoBook S550CA-DS51T was inferior to the Macbook Air (2013). here

You repeat something about "The ASUS 13.3"". here.

I find the 13.3" version of the Asus VivoBook S550CA, the Asus VivoBook S300CA, and explain why it too, is inferior. here.

Now you are claiming:

I never mentioned that one. Asus VivoBook S550CA-DS51T was the one I mentioned.

Which is moronic. It means the discussion has gone in a full circle.

You mentioned "the 13.3 inch ASUS". The S300CA IS "the 13.3 inch ASUS" that most closely resembles the S550CA. It is effectively exactly the same, just the screen size and weight are different. And both are inferior, which I have already shown.

ASUS have probably released dozens of 13.3 inch laptops, I cannot magically tell which exact one you are referring to.

. It has a Haswell processor, the exact same one, I provided the specs back on page 1

Core™ i5-3317U is not a Haswell processor, it is an Ivy Bridge processor, a die shrink of the preceding Sandy Bridge.

I then listed a better performing version for $950.

And had a 128 GB SSD. The 128 GB Macbook Air 2013 is $1100. Which isn't the 50% to 100% more expensive as you were claiming (although it was superior to the Macbook Air). Also you did not provide any link to the product itself. When I run a search for newegg, staticice, and amazon for the UX32VD w/128GB SSD, the cheapest UX32VD which has a 128 GB SSD I could find by searching was this:

amazo n

Unless you get something on sale, you are not likely going to find anything cheaper anything that's on newegg, amazon, and staticice (search).

$1130, on sale from a regular $1,492.99. Which isn't the $950 you were claiming or the Apple is 50% to 100% more expensive you were claiming before that. And yes, at $1130 it is better value than the $1100 Macbook Air, since it has dedicated graphics and a better screen yet massively inferior battery life, but it's just not a massive difference. Aside: Macbook Air is likely getting a major update in 2014 to its display.

Nobody in this thread has shown that Apple products are overpriced.

I am going away for a week so this will be my last post, but in any case I think this discussion has gone on long enough.

reply to post by C0bzz


Mac is WAY overpriced for ALL of their products. You can find a rough equivalent for MUCH cheaper!

I put together a rig for $450 from newegg specials years ago, overclocked the $%^&* out of it, and was outbenching the Mac Pros at the time that were going for $2,499!!

Now, was it as stylish... no, but I'm not paying an extra 2k for style.

I even threw OSX86 on top of it, ie hackintosh

There is no good reason to buy an apple product.

reply to post by webedoomed


Please show how Apples current lineup of computers is something that is overpriced.

We have already shown the Macbook Air isn't.

Maybe now the Mac Mini, or the Macbook Pro?

I could perhaps agree that the iMac or Mac Pro are overpriced, the rest, nope.

I'm left scratching my head.

I don't think life-long PC users understand or know what I mean by "reliability".

I have NEVER had to replace, repair, reformat, defrag or do anything to my Macbook in the 3 years I've had it. My older Macbook only needed a new battery and an OS update (which was free).

I'm not constantly tinkering with system settings, or watching CPU loads and memory management. I just open it up and go. When I had a custom built PC in college, I was frequently using the "three finger salute" (Ctrl+Alt+Delete).

If Steve Jobs should be remembered for ONE thing, it's that he helped make technology work for the user, not having the user work FOR the technology.

reply to post by C0bzz


I'm not sure that they're that over-priced these days.

They have nothing unique about their products to be over-pricing as they did in the past.

They used to hid behind deceptive marketing about their IBM-powered "supercomputers".

Now it's just the same internals as the rest of PCs, so there's nothing they have that can be priced over the top.

reply to post by C0bzz


You went through an awful lot of trouble to try to establish some kind of justification via moral equivalence. Of course you are right in that those statements were not the most proper. BUt they weren't made by a moderator, and I didn't feel like I was being told to just simply eat cake.

If you want to say you are better than someone because you are smarter than them, I am fine with that (although I may not agree). The moment you imply that there is a superiority due to financial means, however, I will speak up. Every single time. Especially to a moderator, who I hold to a higher standard of behavior.

paranormal78
I have noticed numerous attempts by apple becoming a 'sell out'. They used to be all about making an affordable practical computer product. personaly I like Apple and their good products. But lately they have been rushing the release of new Iphone modles. Its not even cool anymore, its starting to get irritating. The puplic got the popular iPhone 4 and 4S in 2011. Now this year everyone was exited about the iPhone 5. Now all the sudden they bring out the 5S and 5c this seems to be happening after the death of Steve Jobs. I just hope they don't rush the 6 or 6S.

edit on 24-12-2013 by paranormal78 because: (no reason given)

Are you for real?
Apple wants to suck up the worlds money and enslave you in a Chinese factory for a few dimes.They don't care about you,me or anybody.

Their products are over priced pap and used to fleece suckers.

Do you worship Steve slave wage Jobs in your bedroom?