Scalar Waves

reply to post by Arbitrageur


IIRC, the thing's quoted in Excalibur.

chr0naut


Firstly, the EM radiation is a different thing than the charged particle. The EM radiation is, by very definition, mass-less. Because it is mass-less, it cannot exist at below the speed of light, it would simply 'evaporate out of reality' (don't get hung up on this, it is simply a metaphorical description). Similarly, to travel at the speed of light mandates that it MUST be mass-less.

I know it is a different thing, but EM radiation does not exist without charged particles right, so it is said the EM field/Em radiation is coupled to charge particles, in a way that the acceleration of a charged particle causes the EM field to be detected/EM radiation to exist, which can in turn interract with charged particles. I wont get hung up about that, but its not digging into the situation, when I ask what causes it or why does the EM field automatically respond to accelerated charge particle at the speed of light, what kind of material reacts like that, how is it possible mechanically, principally?

The EM radiation itself is a self sustaining interaction between two fields (physically, at 90 degrees to each other). The electric field component induces a magnetic field component, which in turn induces an electric field and this cycle repeats very rapidly. At no stage does either field exist without the other, they overlap so that as the magnetic field approaches zero, the electric field approaches its maximum amplitude. At all stages, total energy is conserved and does not fluctuate except between states. In this way, they require no medium to propagate. They are totally self sufficient in each other.

The EM field itself is the medium. And according to science it exists everywhere...sounds like a medium to me. So what I was getting at in my first post you responded to, is to imagine an electron traveling in space, and although we cannot see an electron or the em field it is traveling through/with/in/on it is there, so try and imagine what it may be like too, and then the electron is accelerated, and at that point of acceleration, according to theory and practice, Em radiation is able to be detected traveling away from that point of electron acceleration right? This is what I was trying to comprehend, how the electron may be attached or coupled to the EM field, that when the electron is disturbed, no matter the direction of travel and speed of the electron, the EM field or medium the electron is coupled to, ripples in all directions away from that electron. I was also asking in a quantity and size like manner how much radiation is released when an electron is accelerated, not at what frequency, but at what quantity. think of a sphere, depending on the size of the points of a pen, 1 cm, 2 cm, 5 cm, 10 cm, will dictate how many points you can dot on the sphere; likewise what size is the coupled em field to the electron, how is it attached, this question may appear to not make any sense and it may not, but I think my train of thought is relevant.

So the picture science has painted for me is that if the electron were to be imagined like a sphere, that is someway attached to an all encompassing medium, and when the electron is vibrated in this medium, a sphere of medium vibration, a ghost/shell of energy 3 dimensionally ripples through the medium away from the electron. Is this accurate? But we know that its not a solid like shell of EM radiation that flows away, that sphere itself is a wave, which encompasses the frequency at which the electron was vibrated, if the electron is vibrated relatively slow, its a long wave length, relatively fast, shorter wave length. So because I never understood the Electric field creating magnetic field creating electric field etc. concept, now im picturing something like, there is only 1 component, but there are 2 distinct effects in how that one component reacts with itself... Because if the EM field is this 3d medium, in which an electron is vibrated, and a wave is sent through that medium from the point of vibration, then near where the electron vibrated, the medium would originally be displaced and replaced, a wave, could it be possible that (related to the size of dots question, quantity of em field that is touching the electron) the differences between magnetic and electric field and wave, is the interaction between the different points of EM medium touching the electron, and how they react with one another, so this has to do with the relativity of a wave, if you just imagine a simple wave, crest trough crest trough crest trough ... depending on the way in which you look at that wave, upside down or right side up the wave will be opposite to those positions, so in a similar way when those troughs and crests interact with the waves next to them (I know em field doesnt interact with itself,but that kind makes no sense, if there is just one medium, if we are facing one another in a vacuum and I vibrate an electron in my hand, and you vibrate an electron in your hand, what happens in between us, is it not double the em radiation, mine plus yours? Or because these things are so small and the em field/space so big they would never hit each other or line up perfectly enough, one always takes the high road the other the low, but wouldnt that be a form of interaction, theoretically if an experiment could be established with the tiniest of vacuums, an one electron was vibrated and the em radiation of it measured, and then another opposite of it, and then them both at the same time, the em field would not be vibrating in between them due to both of them, or this is physically unmeasurable experiment so you assume it doesnt interact with itself) could it be a trough interacting with a neighboring crest, the space between them is electric field, and/ a crest interacting with a trough is electric field, or crest and crest trough and trough, something like this?

reply to post by ImaFungi


There is no medium, and one isn't required. Other than, of course, vacuum. It sounds like you're trying to envision something being there to 'wave' in the sense that sound makes air vibrate.

There's not. Early on, science couldn't get past that, and that's where you get 'aether' from. But all the way back to Maxwell, it started becoming obvious that "aether" didn't exist, and wasn't needed.

ImaFungi
I know it is a different thing, but EM radiation does not exist without charged particles right, so it is said the EM field/Em radiation is coupled to charge particles, in a way that the acceleration of a charged particle causes the EM field to be detected/EM radiation to exist, which can in turn interract with charged particles. I wont get hung up about that, but its not digging into the situation, when I ask what causes it or why does the EM field automatically respond to accelerated charge particle at the speed of light, what kind of material reacts like that, how is it possible mechanically, principally?

Light, when propagating through empty space between stars, exists without an accompanying charged particle. The thing that kicked off the light oscillation, setting its amplification and frequency, may have been a charged particle in a star, but the light itself is independent once produced.

Also, the photon should not really be considered a physical sphere as is often imagined. A photon is the minimum packet size that an EM oscillation can exist in. When dealing with very low EM energies (at the quantum scale) we can "count photons" because if the size were to drop below the minimum threshold, it could not exist and so we only see what does exist as discrete packets of light.

Similarly, the electron as a physical sphere is a confusing metaphor. Perhaps a closer one to the mathematical description is that it is an area of electrical charge (which also comes in quantized, or discrete, values).

In the case of an atom, you could envision the electron like a cloudy halo surrounding the nucleus. As the whole number of electron charges increase, the cloud gets more opaque (and spreads slightly further from the nucleus). As the energy enclosed within the cloud increases, the distance it spreads outward from the nucleus also increases. Again, remember that this is a metaphorical description and don't take it too literally.

The EM field itself is the medium. And according to science it exists everywhere...sounds like a medium to me.

Electromagnetiic fields (also called charge) are very local. They aren't everywhere.

Bedlam
IIRC, the thing's quoted in Excalibur.

What's Excalibur?

I searched excalibur and found a Canadian Newspaper online but when I searched that for tom bearden and or zog I got nada.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


It might be zarg? Excalibur Briefing?

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


That's it. He wrote a serious AF paper on it and that was pretty much it, IIRC. Of course, the military had a scandal about 10 years back (you probably didn't hear about it) wherein it was discovered that an alarming number of officers had gotten their requisite college degree from Trinity like Tom had, and all those guys were invited to depart as well, so if ZARG hadn't got him that Trinity degree would have.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


"The Excalibur Briefing" is a concentrated collection of loony that shows you what Tom really believes.

reply to post by Bedlam

DenyObfuscation
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

It might be zarg? Excalibur Briefing?

Thanks. "zarg" is what I needed, as I wasn't finding zog. Close, but apparently not close enough for search.

reply to post by ImaFungi


Ok reading your description of an EM field looks like you inadvertently confused physics and relativity. Both look at an EM field differently mainly perspective. those circles or force lines are directions of current flow in relativity. Let me try to explain an EM field according to Einstein. Lets start with 2 wires and we string them parallel to each other and run a charge through it what happens? Well electons start traveling at the speed of light! This is very important because any slower and we wont get an EM field. So now we have our 2 wires and have 2 charges moving in the same direction on 2 wires.When current is flowing electrons (negative charge) are moving through the wire, and the protons (positive charge) in the nuclei of the atoms stay where they are. Now since the electrons in the other wire are moving the protons see the electrons as closer together because of relativity they see something called “length contraction“. The electrons will see the protons as moving and so experience the same effect. The end result is that every particle in both wires sees the other wire as have an opposite net charge. And of course are attracted to each other.Now we reverse one of the wires charges exactly the opposite happens and they repel so a magnetic field in relativity is just a side effect of space distortion. So in relativity its a distortion of space time that causes an em field.

Now the part i think you were confused about and i said your describing two different theories lets look at a bar magnet. To make a bar magnet we take our to wires make them loop back on to them selves forming a current loop. we take these two loops connect them at one point sort of like a figure 8 and that is the stored energy in a bar magnet. When we dump iron filings on a bar magnet we are seeing the current loops. This is the reason inn relativity you cant have a monopole magnet and why atoms themselves can generate magnetic fields since the electron traveling around the protron creates current loops.So in relativity there is no electromagnetic fields at all its an illusion.

Ill come back and explain how particle physics looks at it. or by all means someone else explain either way.Good nite all.

Bedlam
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

There is no medium, and one isn't required. Other than, of course, vacuum. It sounds like you're trying to envision something being there to 'wave' in the sense that sound makes air vibrate.

There's not. Early on, science couldn't get past that, and that's where you get 'aether' from. But all the way back to Maxwell, it started becoming obvious that "aether" didn't exist, and wasn't needed.

How is the EM field not a medium?

chr0naut

Light, when propagating through empty space between stars, exists without an accompanying charged particle. The thing that kicked off the light oscillation, setting its amplification and frequency, may have been a charged particle in a star, but the light itself is independent once produced.

Thanks, I know. What I think you are responding to here that I brought up, was my curiosity as to why Em radiation does not/cannot interact with Em radiation. If I am correct in thinking it is thought that it cannot/does not.

Also, the photon should not really be considered a physical sphere as is often imagined. A photon is the minimum packet size that an EM oscillation can exist in. When dealing with very low EM energies (at the quantum scale) we can "count photons" because if the size were to drop below the minimum threshold, it could not exist and so we only see what does exist as discrete packets of light.

Similarly, the electron as a physical sphere is a confusing metaphor. Perhaps a closer one to the mathematical description is that it is an area of electrical charge (which also comes in quantized, or discrete, values).

I wasnt imagining the photon as a physical sphere as I feel you think I did, which would be a physical sphere like a bb or baseball being shot from the physical sphere electron like a bullet. But I was more attempting to understand if when EM radiation is created from an accelerated charge if that EM radiation is created in all directions surrounding that charge, if so, that would appear as a sphere of em radiation continually increasing in area, as ripples in a lake do from a dropped stone, though in the example of EM radiation would be a 3-d lake, thus instead of a circle, would be a sphere. If that does not occur, is it suggested that EM radiation is only caused to exist as a sort of 2-d plane, so when a charge is accelerated instead of a sphere of EM radiation there is a circle of EM radiation emitted surrounding the charge?

I dont think imagining the electron as a perfect sphere or imperfect plays to much into this, but if it is not a perfect sphere it is some quantity of 'stuff' that takes up space, the idea of a sphere is convenient because if you had 5 samples of irregularly shaped quanta of varying mass and density and such, a sphere would be one ideal shape to compare their areas. Anyway, an area of electrical charge...what the heck does that mean, the electron is not an object unto itself, you are making it seem as if the electron is not a thing, but a result of surrounding things, causing an area of electrical charge to exist, is this a what came first, or what causes what, chicken or egg scenario? Like what came first the electron or EM field? Or is the electron made of the same fundamental energy/essence as all other matter/particles? Is the EM field made of the same fundamental stuff/energy as the electron and all other stuff? Before the big bang there was just 1 simple same pool of energy, and then that 1, turned into all this balanced and intricate complexity, fields and particles, and radiation, and areas of electrical charge?

So is the area of electrical charge a 2-d pool of vacuum? Or 3-d irregular shape of actual energy? Actual matter? Potential energy or matter? Result of neighboring fields twisting a force field into a stable area of electrical charge? If you say an electron is a 1d point particle I will never be able to trust your intelligence or science ever again, if you are planning on saying that, even if thats how science likes to picture it, think about how it is possible a 1d object might exist in 3d space, or even 2 d for that matter.

The EM field itself is the medium. And according to science it exists everywhere...sounds like a medium to me.
Electromagnetiic fields (also called charge) are very local. They aren't everywhere.

"The electromagnetic field extends indefinitely throughout space and describes the electromagnetic interaction." - en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by dragonridr


I am wondering how the EM field physical exists and appears,( to be clear. Everything that exists exists in some way...though we cannot detect or see things for reasons including our technological inability, or circumstantial impossibility, does not mean they are not there or exist in exactly the way they exist, which is a way we cannot directly observe and know), IF we could know and see and observe exactly how the EM field exists, what would be seeing and observing, how does it exist, what is it, how is it? Next, same questions for electrons. And then, step by step, planck length and planck second to planck length and planck second, what does the physical action appear as when an electron is vibrated and EM radiation is created. This is what I want to know. Also I want to know why EM radiation or the EM field cannot interact with itself. And then lastly I guess is what you attempted to describe, which is the nature of magnetism and electricity, which is also extremely interesting, so according to what you answer to the above, how does electricity and magnetism tie into that world view, And how is the EM field 2 separate fields that are connected to each other?

Because the electron, and EM field and EM radiation are certainly said and seen to exist, and be items, and things, energetic reactions, and stuff. I am wondering if youve ever seen a simulation or video putting into image what the math tells the physicists the electron, the em field, and em radiation appear as. Because in reality, the numbers, the math, = objects and events. So if you understand the symbolic words of electron vibrate in em field creates em radiation, if you understand the numbers that represent that statement, cannot you or any physicist in the world who knows this, not plug those words and numbers, into a simulation which represents the physical universe, that those words and numbers are taken from and suppose to equally represent?

dragonridr
Okay so NASA is a part of the scam and NASA is all confused, too.

No mary you are what the site from NASA is is there open disclosure your seeing raw research materials posted by actual scientist. Often times in raw research they have scalar mentioned usually when studying plasmas like the sun. So a scientist could get the bright ides to say scalar wave propagation in a solar medium. What he means is hes discussing wave propagation in a solar medium and this is his scalar data. just for an example.Doesnt mean he thinks there are scalar waves. Then someone with no clue finds this it ends up posted on scribe and hundreds of other websites as proof for some theory there trying to sell you.

Ive seen it several times in research they say scalar wave equation. it doesnt mean the waves are scalar because to have a wave they become vectors.This is only as complicated as you want it to be.

I just wanted to say that you are doing a fantastic job of explaining this! :thumbsup:



Mary, the actual math behind these seemingly simple things is extraordinary and beautiful. Its like art in motion.

There are numerous resources which you can learn this math, and better understand the topic you obviously enjoy. That math, by its very nature, has no bias and no opportunity for "indoctrination." How we interpret the overall data will be subjective, but the math itself isnt. We can come up with numerous systems to all display the same information.

Math is how we see into the actual process of what is going on around us. It allows us to see what gears are turning, and even use the same processes for our own advantage.

Math unifies both "alternative" and "mainstream" science and is just as relevant to both. It is the universal language in the most literal of ways.

Understanding it will lead to an even greater appreciation of the subjects of study that you obviously enjoy! It will also help you discern whether a particular data source has any veracity, simply by being familiar with the patterns moving the universe itself.

It wouldnt take extremely high levels of mathematic education either. You can probably get a good basic understanding by learning, and understanding, trigonometry, algebra, beginning linear algebra, and some physics. And physics can even be taught to yourself by using the math to explore the world around you! That education can be had, for free, from various different sources.

This doesnt have anything to do with turning you away from "alternative science," quite the opposite! It will raise your appreciation of the truly unique scientists like Tesla, and who knows, you may even become one yourself!

ImaFungi
reply to post by dragonridr

 

I am wondering how the EM field physical exists and appears,( to be clear. Everything that exists exists in some way...though we cannot detect or see things for reasons including our technological inability, or circumstantial impossibility, does not mean they are not there or exist in exactly the way they exist, which is a way we cannot directly observe and know), IF we could know and see and observe exactly how the EM field exists, what would be seeing and observing, how does it exist, what is it, how is it? Next, same questions for electrons. And then, step by step, planck length and planck second to planck length and planck second, what does the physical action appear as when an electron is vibrated and EM radiation is created. This is what I want to know. Also I want to know why EM radiation or the EM field cannot interact with itself. And then lastly I guess is what you attempted to describe, which is the nature of magnetism and electricity, which is also extremely interesting, so according to what you answer to the above, how does electricity and magnetism tie into that world view, And how is the EM field 2 separate fields that are connected to each other?

Because the electron, and EM field and EM radiation are certainly said and seen to exist, and be items, and things, energetic reactions, and stuff. I am wondering if youve ever seen a simulation or video putting into image what the math tells the physicists the electron, the em field, and em radiation appear as. Because in reality, the numbers, the math, = objects and events. So if you understand the symbolic words of electron vibrate in em field creates em radiation, if you understand the numbers that represent that statement, cannot you or any physicist in the world who knows this, not plug those words and numbers, into a simulation which represents the physical universe, that those words and numbers are taken from and suppose to equally represent?

OK ill try to keep this brief have a conference to prepare for i can elaborate later. First to answer your question it seems you're trying to find the cornerstone of the universe. What causes everything we see touch feel to exist. Well in relativistic physics the answer is speed and direction. Prepare your self we are entering the rabbit hole and its going to require you to think differently. When a particle moves at the speed of light it interacts very little with its surroundings. Everything we see touch feel taste is a particle being forced to move slower than its natural speed being 299,792,458 metres per second. This is accomplished by the Higgs boson which forces particles to lose some of their energy when interacting with this field. Every particle in the universe is in motion nothing is standing still and without the Higgs boson we would see nothing but empty space we'll correct that we would see nothing because photons would not exist.

So everything revolves around the velocity or speed and the direction of travel of a particle. Its interactions such as an Em field are consequences of a particle interacting with another particle who is also in motion. To answer another question here is a good time EM fields are always at right angles of the direction of the particle. they dont form a bubble or a sphere its a direction of force. If i have to sum up the universe with one big bow everything is dependant on the speed of light and its effects on spacetime!

dragonridr
To answer another question here is a good time EM fields are always at right angles of the direction of the particle. they dont form a bubble or a sphere its a direction of force.

By EM field here do you mean EM radiation? So say an electron is traveling some arbitrary direction at an arbitrary speed ------------------- and then it is accelerated (this is what causes EM radiation right?). So you are saying at the point of acceleration, EM radiation is caused to radiate away from the particle at 90 degree angles according to the altered direction, or speed of the particles new direction of travel? So when the particle is accelerated, firstly is the electron a 3-d object? Secondly, the EM radiation that is caused to radiate at right angles from the electron, is this 3-d radiation, and is there just one/two objects of radiation, if the particle is accelerated to a horizontal path for example, radiation string 1 going 90 degrees up, and radiation string 2 going 90 degrees down? So does the electron cause the em field that surrounds it, to have the most miniscule quanta of EM field, to interact from that point of acceleration, and that smallest quanta of em field is caused to do something by the accelerated electron, and what it is caused to do is called EM radiation? Which if the EM field is imagined to be a compressed 3d substance composed of intimately compressed electric and magnetic lines of force, which under relatively stable forms of electron travel, allows the local field to react in a stable manner, though when an electron is accelerated in this field, the electric and magnetic field lines which nearly infinitely exist everywhere, (and are connected from one end of the universe to the other?)they are caused to react in a manner that causes them to wave back and forth with each other, the nearest 2 lines of force to the accelerated electron, 90 degrees both ways, give and take one anothers energy indefinitely, and this is called a wave of EM radiation? And the reason the energy from this line of force interaction, if the EM field exists everywhere, (unless you are suggesting each electron only has 2 lines of force connected to it so that when it is accelerated those can be its EM radiation waves) doesnt leak into neighboring lines of force, causing a chain of reaction in directions other then 2 lines of force 90 degrees perpendicular to direction of travel is?

Also my last reply is very clear with what I wanted to know, please if you want to have a conversation with me, take the time to read my questions, they are very clear, In my last reply I made my intentions and inquisitions as clear and simply expressed as I possibly can and yet it still appears as if you did not read them at all.

ImaFungi

dragonridr
To answer another question here is a good time EM fields are always at right angles of the direction of the particle. they dont form a bubble or a sphere its a direction of force.

By EM field here do you mean EM radiation? So say an electron is traveling some arbitrary direction at an arbitrary speed ------------------- and then it is accelerated (this is what causes EM radiation right?). So you are saying at the point of acceleration, EM radiation is caused to radiate away from the particle at 90 degree angles according to the altered direction, or speed of the particles new direction of travel? So when the particle is accelerated, firstly is the electron a 3-d object? Secondly, the EM radiation that is caused to radiate at right angles from the electron, is this 3-d radiation, and is there just one/two objects of radiation, if the particle is accelerated to a horizontal path for example, radiation string 1 going 90 degrees up, and radiation string 2 going 90 degrees down? So does the electron cause the em field that surrounds it, to have the most miniscule quanta of EM field, to interact from that point of acceleration, and that smallest quanta of em field is caused to do something by the accelerated electron, and what it is caused to do is called EM radiation? Which if the EM field is imagined to be a compressed 3d substance composed of intimately compressed electric and magnetic lines of force, which under relatively stable forms of electron travel, allows the local field to react in a stable manner, though when an electron is accelerated in this field, the electric and magnetic field lines which nearly infinitely exist everywhere, (and are connected from one end of the universe to the other?)they are caused to react in a manner that causes them to wave back and forth with each other, the nearest 2 lines of force to the accelerated electron, 90 degrees both ways, give and take one anothers energy indefinitely, and this is called a wave of EM radiation? And the reason the energy from this line of force interaction, if the EM field exists everywhere, (unless you are suggesting each electron only has 2 lines of force connected to it so that when it is accelerated those can be its EM radiation waves) doesnt leak into neighboring lines of force, causing a chain of reaction in directions other then 2 lines of force 90 degrees perpendicular to direction of travel is?

Also my last reply is very clear with what I wanted to know, please if you want to have a conversation with me, take the time to read my questions, they are very clear, In my last reply I made my intentions and inquisitions as clear and simply expressed as I possibly can and yet it still appears as if you did not read them at all.

edit on 12-12-2013 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

i answered your questions by explaining the EM field. Lets try it this way an EM field is an illusion caused by relativity. So let me start by saying In an em field nothing is compressed were dealing with a distortion of space time. Remember rule number one in special relativity is if your stationary or moving the speed of light will always be the same. When dealing with electric currents our observers become protons and electrons and yes they are a 3d object.No em radiation is not a 3d object it is a reaction a particle causes traveling at the speed of light.

Let me try something different lets talk about energy im going to start with Cerenkov radiation this is caused if something were to move faster then the speed of light. You would see it as a blue flash, We see this when light travels through a medium such as water. The speed of light is slower through water then it is in a vacuum. Off hand not sure what it is but seem to remember it moves 25 percent slower. However we can pass an electron through that same water and it will move faster than light can through water causing a blue flash. This is how we see highly energetic particles and used in alot of physics experiments. The reason why i mentioned this is i want to talk about that flash of light. See this is caused by a particle traveling faster than light it is an effect. This shows us that the negative charge is surrounding an electron radiating outward. It is an electron out racing the charge it creates much like a plane causing a sonic boom when it out races the speed of sound. So now you can get the idea when an electron moves at light speed it causes a field to form around it much like our plane traveling just at the speed of sound. This bubble around are plane doesnt exist if we go slower. Only just at the speed of sound does this buble get created we move faster and the planes nose breaks the bubble. An electron moving at the speed of light creates its own bubble slower no buble at the speed of light its there.In special circumstances we can make an electron through a medium out race the bubble it created and we see light.

So now that bubble that is created is a force directly caused by the particle but is not a substance or a 3d object. Im seriously considering deleting this so as not to further confuse you but ill leave it for now and hope i wont be sorry i mentioned it.

ImaFungi
"The electromagnetic field extends indefinitely throughout space and describes the electromagnetic interaction." - en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 11-12-2013 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

The second sentence in that Wikipedia article refers to objects in the vicinty of the field. If the field were even, all pervasive and continued forever, without limit, then one could not describe any object as "in the vicinity of the field" because all objects would be, and to exactly the same extent.

The confusion you may be having is with the word "indefinitely". You are taking it to mean "infinitely". The word actually means "undefined". Thus the sentence is saying "I can't tell you how far the field reaches, because it is too variable and complex for me to explain".

chr0naut

ImaFungi
"The electromagnetic field extends indefinitely throughout space and describes the electromagnetic interaction." - en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 11-12-2013 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

The second sentence in that Wikipedia article refers to objects in the vicinty of the field. If the field were even, all pervasive and continued forever, without limit, then one could not describe any object as "in the vicinity of the field" because all objects would be, and to exactly the same extent.

The confusion you may be having is with the word "indefinitely". You are taking it to mean "infinitely". The word actually means "undefined". Thus the sentence is saying "I can't tell you how far the field reaches, because it is too variable and complex for me to explain".

Well no its wiki and trying to explain a difficult subject. Its information is only as good as the contributor which of course is anyone who takes the time to do it. What there trying to tell you is particle physics. And whats called force carriers like a boson for example.

reply to post by dragonridr


Yes that is interesting but I dont see how it relates to what I was asking. Reading back the last few previous posts of mine I see how dysfunctional my writing has been, In my mind I can clearly see the problems which I am asking and know they are relative, the fundamental problems and curiosities that would plague any physical universal system that exists, and I want to know about the one that does. So I will try to be more clear, and try not to rush my thoughts and pile on the questions, I dont think this forum is going anywhere so I need to take a deep breath. What is the EM field, how does it exist? Are you trying to say the EM field is the vacuum? Or is the EM field its own energetic entity? If it is its own energetic entity, how does it exist, what is it, Do you comprehend the importance of this question and reality in which it seeks to know, and do you know the answer? When I ask, what is it, I mean, if you had to draw it, how would it appear, like if a child were to ask what is an apple, it would help to describe it using sensual data such as taste, and historical data such as its classifications as fruit and plant and how it grows on a tree, but what would also help would be an image of an apple. Like wise, talking about the very real very existent EM field, can you find a good drawing of one? What does the math say the EM field must look like? Are the lines of force associated with it actual lines, like fishing lines, like a quadrillion fishing lines every quantity of space, and the lines go from one side of the universe to the other? Or are these lines really made of particles, so the lines of force arent connected objects?