I don't understand my mother

I have a friend who didn´t cope with her father at all. She picked opposite views to what her father had in every issue, they never managed to fix their relationship and when she was in adult age and her parents divorced she never saw her father again or talked to him. I have no idea when this started and why it started and neither did her mother who was a psychiatrist and couldn´t fix their relationship or help in any way.
Her father was a history professor and very right winged man, and she really didn´t have a side but because her father she pretended to be left winged just to cause him annoyance.

To those who think my friend was a childish and immature i can guarantee if that was a case it was only towards her father and nobody else nor in general. She works in medico-legal and if you are "f----d up" its not a place you would be accepted and people who get to work there also go through psychiatric tests be fore accepted.

Sometimes there are gaps which has been build over the years and no other than two who are main charachters in it, can fix it. Sure the task can be difficult but they or one of them really needs to want fix it and go on from there.

Even that OP seems to be young it doesn´t mean he/she is immature as you can have selective immature behavior towards certain people.

Hi OP, I've struggled with a very similar situation to yours for many years, with similar results: hatred, disgust, loneliness, isolation, depression, leading to interest in spiritual / unusual topics.
I've boucned back and forth with philosophies to try to deal with and understand why family and others treated me so poorly and coldly - I tried to be warmer, more loving to them, thinking that it was my fault - that I was born unlovable and cold and just treated in kind. I don't let myself go there mentally anymore, because it's just not true.
Here is the ONLY combination of philosophy and action that has been successful for me:
-Cut the hurtful people out of your life. You are still feeling an obligation to them, and you shouldn't, because they obviously felt no obligation to treat YOU kindly or lovingly. They have nothing to do with who you really are.
-Remember that your Earth parents are not necessarily your Heavenly parents or "spirit family". They're responsible for creating your Earth body, but not your spirit. Your real Father and Mother are in Heaven. Reserve your true love and respect for them, not for earthly #ups.
-Carlos Castaneda's explanation of Don Juan's concept of a "petty tyrant" helped me enormously. If you're not familiar with Castaneda's books, you might like them. They'll give you a fresh perspective on these issues if nothing else.
Feel blessed that you had several petty tyrants (some might even call them "buddhas") in your life to show you what NOT to do. They've provided you with the negative stimulus to become a deeper, more thoughtful, more spiritual person. One of my parents, who is a piece of human waste, told me when I was very young that he could be a "buddha" for me. It was a disturbing, inappropriate, terribly prideful thing for a grown adult to tell a small child, but he was right, when I look back. He has been an excellent model in my life for everything I hate, everything that disgusts and appalls me. Kind of gave me a concrete block to "push off" from.
Don Juan says that self-importance is the enemy of the [spiritual] warrior. Consider your advantage that you had petty tyrants in your life to make you feel worthless. Really. Use them for what they're good for. Squeeze every drop of guidance that you can out of them, since they haven't given you any guidance willingly.
People who have no challenges in their lives amount to nothing. You've said you're "unsuccessful", and I know what you mean - unsuccessful in typical worldly terms. But you CAN BE successful in more important ways. You have been given gifts in the form of petty tyrants. Not everyone gets such gifts - only those who have the potential to be up for the challenge.

Here are some quotes from Don Juan if you're not familiar-
www.whale.to...

"...a warrior who stumbles on a petty tyrant is a lucky one."--Don Juan

reply to post by introspectionist


PLEASE read my AD thread on ATS:

BO X ATS ATTACHMENT DISORDER THREAD LINK:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


And get the book ATTACHMENTS . . . by Drs Clinton and Sibcy


ATTACHMENTS: WHY YOU LOVE, FEEL AND ACT THE WAY YOU DO

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339042498&sr=1-2



ATTACHMENT DISORDER LINKS

ATTACHMENT DISORDER IN ADULTS:

www.buzzle.com...

Your mother sounds like more of an EXTRINSIC religionist than an INTRINSIC one.

There's a world of difference. You can research that topic. I've commented a fair amount about the differences but don't have those links handy.

The opposition has created for many decades a CULTURE OF ORPHANS

as Solyen says in MY FATHER MY FATHER.

Orphans are interested (desperately) only in 2 things: PROVISION--FOOD--AND SECURITY/SAFETY.

It is likely your mother has a serious degree of ATTACHMENT DISORDER, too.

It is rather epidemic in our culture--by the globalists' design.

reply to post by BO XIAN

PLEASE read my AD thread on ATS:

BO X ATS ATTACHMENT DISORDER THREAD LINK:

You've decided right out of the chute what the problem is? Really??? Yikes.

You, Bo, are a QUACK.


I'm done here. OP knows how to contact me if he pleases.

As can be seen here, there are many ways to approach this problem. Some people blame the person who has the problem, like blaming the victim, it makes the advisor feel safe and superior. Some people search quasi-religious/philosophical self-help lit. Some people try to probe the psyche of everyone involved and apply pop psychology. All of these solutions will get you nowhere. I tried them.

I'm just going to give you my opinion based on life experience. I have been where you are. My mother is now dead. She lived into her 80's. I'm in my 60's. You can not change her. You might be able to change yourself enough to cope, but probably not. You have limited solutions. You can sever ties and move on. Or you can maintain minimal contact and feel lously all the time. Or you can try to get what you didn't get from her until she dies. This is the one solution to avoid. You will never, ever get what you didn't get from her before. It is completely useless and self-destructive to try.

Best advice: do not allow her to win. She wins when you see yourself through her eyes. She is like a broken mirror. You are not her image of you. If it is possible for you to completely remove her from your life, that is the healthiest thing to do. After a few years without her, you might be able to see her differently, more objectively. You will probably be in a much better place. Try not to hate her. It helps if you can pray for her salvation and mean it. Don't blame yourself. Just think it's one area of life where you weren't so lucky. You got a bad break in that area, but you are really young. It doesn't mean your whole life will turn out bad. In fact, there are many advantages in having lousy parents, you definitely learn what not to do. You aren't broken enough to not want to be loved and give love. That puts you way ahead of your Mom. You have hope.

Do you have children?

I fully understand the cold distant parenting as I too was a product of that (I think it was in vogue during my childhood) and vowed to not repeat the cycle.

Then I found myself a single mom (and only parent) after a relationship where we both decided to have children but he found it too much responsibility/not so fun. A job shared is a job halved but a single parent has a job doubled so can you see the stress a single parent is under? The work is never finished outside or at home and, frankly, often kids suffer despite that being the last intention of the parent.

Another responsibility of parenting is making sure your children reach adulthood safely and with a skill set/manners/coping ability to be a properly functioning human and an asset to society. This requires sometimes cutting through the lala land / illusions of childhood (at an appropriate age of course) to get them to see that traffic can get you killed, rudeness can backfire etc. This is done because we love our kids and want them to survive well.

You will never have the same relationship to a parent as that gentle, spiritual parent to the general public because you have already been through her care and lack of care. Sometimes being not gentle or unkind can be so a child or even an adult can learn.

Every day I try to remind myself that it is not the things said or done that are remembered so much as the feelings left over and yet there are still times I have to be firm/ emotionally removed with my kids to get an important point across. I wish it weren't so. And nobody is born a parent, we learn as we go too.

This may not be what you mean but it is how I see it.

reply to post by wildtimes


You may lack such understanding and awareness. Or you may merely be writing obtusely or contrarianly.

BTW, It's impressive arrogance that appears to construe folks not marching identically to your drum as quacks. What Sweetness. That ASSUMES that you know all there is to know about me on such subjects and issues . . . AND it ASSUMES that you know all there is to know about such assessment skills and processes. Somehow, I suspect you don't know ALL THAT pile of stuff.

The evidence is not lacking.

The issue is not that hard to observe/detect from the evidence cited.

IT IS ALSO PLAUSIBLE that ADDITIONAL other things are ALSO going on. I just contend that the other things are HIGHLY LIKELY TO BE a SUBSET of the ATTACHMENT DISORDER.

Basically mothers WITHOUT significant attachment disorder DO NOT BEHAVE as the mother's described behavior outlines. THAT'S A SIMPLE FACT.

However, ATTACHMENT DISORDER is at the root of . . . more or less . . . the whole DSM IV pile of labels in the vast majority of the cases.

Perhaps you have not counseled as a psychologist for more than 30 years.

Or perhaps you merely went through the ORTHODOX protracted and expensive process to arrive at a test battery of supportive data to tell you what you already knew.

And even at the beginning of my career, my supervisors in my PhD program as well as at the field placement counseling agencies were a bit . . . incredulous at how quickly I accurately assessed root issues and problems.

IIRC, Psychiatrist Milton Erickson of Phoenix--the one who fixed impossible problems--often in 15 minutes or less . . . could correctly assess the problem in the first 2-5 minutes.

I realize not all counselors are up to that standard.

I see your incredulity exceeds theirs by orders of magnitude.

Whoop-T-Do. Color me unimpressed at your instant assessment of me as a quack.

Thanks for the insult, nevertheless.

In this case, the OP provided more than sufficient information to assess that ATTACHMENT DISORDER WAS AT LEAST a major foundational root of what was going on.
.

reply to post by Roisin



Excellent points. Great post and contribution to this thread, imho.

Though I don't know that the abused lot of so many of us is "bad luck."

There are tons of factors.

And, what IF we meet with Father God before we are born and CHOOSE TOGETHER the major features of our life--for our spiritual training and growth?

Certainly it's warranted to avoid expecting water from a dry well.

And, imho, it's warranted and healthy to be WISELY candid with mom where possible.

And, imho, while there's life, there's hope. ONE CAN use some minimal behavior mod with such mom's . . . reinforcing healthier communication and ignoring, extinguishing, walking away from destructive communications from mom.

It may not produce great change but any change can be wonderful. One merely has to keep one's expectations minimal.

wildtimes
reply to post by introspectionist

 

Other questions would be, how was she raised by HER parents, and what about you father? Is he around?

HOW INTERESTING.

I see YOU IMMEDIATELY WENT TO ATTACHMENT DISORDER YOURSELF!

You merely failed to label it so.

Yet you accused me of being a quack for doing so.

How impressive.

Sheesh.

introspectionist

I know that her childhood was quite rough and cold. She divorced my father.

Just one of those factoids is sufficient to insure that significant ATTACHMENT DISORDER is involved.

I encourage you to read the book . . . and/or give one to your mother.

reply to post by introspectionist

"To err is human...to forgive? Is divine"
The learning lesson has been yours, not hers. Learn to forgive and let go.

mysterioustranger
reply to post by introspectionist

 

"To err is human...to forgive? Is divine"
The learning lesson has been yours, not hers. Learn to forgive and let go.

Learning to forgive can be a huge obstacle. It certainly has been for me. Probably THE biggest roadblock in my life. But also probably THE biggest spiritual catalyst. Simply stating "learn to forgive" doesn't really help, since that is something I realized a long time ago was at the heart of it and have been working on ever since. For some people it comes naturally. But as I stated earlier, that time about "immaturity", which I think is similar, I feel blessed and chosen to have been "immature" or whatever, because I have been submersed in the shadow in a major way. Which for example my sister has not been. She might be better at adjusting, conforming, fitting in etc. but to be honest, as I said before, I don't wish to trade places with such people, even though I am working on forgiving, as I have said. My sister is an extrovert, I am an introvert, and I'm proud of it. I have seen personality tests and I can totally see my sister and myself in those tests. She is competitive, extrovert, social, popular, optimistic etc. It fits with everything she has ever done in life, and it also fits with her somatotype (body type) which is mesomorph (Sheldon's constitutional psychology, en.wikipedia.org...). I am the extreme ectomorph both physically and with the corresponding temperament/personality/psychology. Introvert/introspective/don't like sports/unpopular/interested in intellectual stuff etc. My personality type has it's downside for sure, but it has it's blessings too.

I'm currently working on a theory that my parents don't exist outside my mind. They're Jungian archetypes. Just like the Zionists and the Muslim immigrants only exist in my head, the politicians, the police, the media, the teachers etc. etc.

you are not supposed to understand your mother as the old saying goes they are right even when they are wrong they are supposed to love you unconditionally even if you are the biggest idiot on the planet .

but both of you are young and like a good wine will mature with age so dont sweat it and enjoy life every day of it

reply to post by introspectionist


Once you understand, it is much easier to forgive. That's why I promote studying your Family System before making ANY diagnosis...

You can do this as a lay person: simply google "Family Systems Theory". You are one individual in a group - your family. The system has been in place/evolving for generations, long before you were even a twinkle in your dad's eye.

You seem to have done a lot of your own legwork already, which is, again, admirable.

It is improper to try to slap a diagnosis or label on anyone at this point; highly unethical. First things first:
examine the system, the behavior patterns, your own coping mechanisms (e.g. pretending they only exist in your mind).

One needs to figure out how they bought in to whatever beliefs; called "Reframing", or "Narrative" theory -
these are the techniques I would recommend, and they are "self-help"-friendly.

SO MUCH information is on the net now. You are an intelligent person, with already some insight into your own personality and your sister's as well. Kudos for doing that.

My mother is passive-aggressive and lies to get attention. (lies at my expense).
I"ve learned to keep her at arms length. (more than that .. she lives a few hundred miles away).
She can't be trusted. It's just that simple.
And yes, it does tick me off if I think about it. So I try not to.
Sometimes we just can't have the kind of relationships with our relatives that we want to.
Sad but true.

My mother is judgmental. Everytime I am around her I get to hear all the mistakes I ever made since the day I was born. I get an emotional beating everytime I am with my family, and being around my mother is like being in a type of hell... so I stay away from them for the most part, sometimes I forget exactly what it was like but then I get around everyone again and remember, very very fast.

Everyone has problems of one type or another with their parents.

Its a matter of saying, "I am who I am and I don't need anyone to tell me I am a good and decent human being, because I already know that." And then move on with your own life...

reply to post by introspectionist


That's the way life goes sometimes. My mother revealed to me not long ago that they had planned to abort me!!! LOL Oh my gosh insane. But they changed their minds. But growing up my father taught my older brother how to be responsible, but not me. So I end up having to learn the hard way.

But later as an adult you start to realize that you can't blame anyone anymore at all for anything. You are where you are right now because of the choices you've made. Infact once you turn 18 you're an adult so anything you do at that point (even earlier in life) you can't put on anyone else. The sooner you realize that the better your chances are at getting to your goals and getting ahead in life. A lot of people play the blame game in life though. That's dumb. If you're parents gave you a place to live, food, and clothing then you're more fortunate that a lot of kids in the world. Everything else in your life consider it your duty to figure it out, learn to be responsible for your actions and be your own best friend so you can start getting on with life so to speak. That's my theory.

life could be worse....

People who distill this problem down to "learning to forgive," really have no insight at all into this kind of situation.

You can forgive an offense, a singular occurrence. You can forgive if the person expresses remorse and their firm intention not to commit the offense again. Even if the person DOES commit the offense again, if they sincerely repent and make another promise not to offend, you can forgive them. You can continue to forgive. You can continue to hope that change will come.

You will notice that the forgiveness involves the transgressor acknowledging that they did something wrong and promising to stop doing it.

Here we have a situation where a person is simply being themselves, but the very self that they are causes hurt to another person. It is part of the person's character to hurt the other person. It is inherent to their relationship that the Mother hurts and the child is hurt.

The Mother may not even realize how hurtful she is. The child could never simply name "an offense," because "offense" has been part of the dynamic since birth.

The Mother is not sorry for who she is and the child can not forgive her for who she is, and for having a globally negative, hurtful impact on their entire lives, for undermining the child's ability to see themselves as a decent, lovable, worthy person.

Forgiveness is really not part of this whole dynamic at all.

The relationship has been in place for the entire life of this poster and both of the parties have been enmeshed in it for more than 20 years. The relationship has developed over a very long time and both parties know their roles, and will more or less lock each other into fulfilling those roles. If there is any sort of evolution, the situation will almost certainly get worse. The mother will see her child aging and becoming more competent and autonomous and will kick up her undermining in an effort to get him back in line.

No. The only real solution is to break ties and remove yourself from this relationship. It really will never change into something that is even tolerable. The poster will never get what he wants from the mother and even if she could give him what he wants, which she does not have the ability or inclination to do, it would not do him any good now anyway. It's too late. He's a man. Walk away. Make a life for yourself. Love yourself. Keep steppin'

Ah, to be able to walk a mile in someone else's shoes.

I would suggest to you OP, that you should communicate, either verbally or in writing, with her about your childhood experiences and feelings just to, hopefully, get her story. It may help (or not) for you to understand what trials and tribulations she faced during that time. But, most importantly, it may help you to move forward and hopefully let go of resentment and anger.

I read somewhere once that the only true parent is life.

All the best,
InTheLight

reply to post by introspectionist

I don't understand my mother and I have a hard time forgiving her.

Are you trying to understand first to see if you should forgive?

If so wrong way round, find forgiveness in your heart and then understanding will come.

Its all in you, Maybe you need to forgive yourself first so that you can forgive others.

I think she's a hypocrite.

I am, being hypocritical can be that one sees what another is doing even though they do it themselves and tell them to wisen up even thought wisen up is not the advice you would give yourself.

Most people are one time or another.

I am very interested in spirituality so it seems like I have that in common with her. But I have a negative feeling about having that in common with her because I can't forgive her. For example there was a book I was thinking about reading, and then I saw my mother talking about it on her website. So now I don't want to read that book at all.

The issues are not your mother or what she did or didn't do,

You need to learn how to forgive otherwise nothing will sense the further in life you go.

Remember I am a hypocrite and giving advice from a hypocritical point of view.

It starts by forgiving yourself for any doubts you might have about yourself or your actions.

I struggle to find forgiveness for myself and it creates many obstacles that most likely wouldn't be there if I could simply forgive myself.