Labor As Seen from Down Under: Fair Wages and Decent Benefits Profit Everyone

reply to post by LocalGenius


Should a group of people be FORCED to live near people they don't like?

Where can someone go that only wants similar people around? If a group of people want to live only around their own kind, why can't they?

The wages/benefits of the OP are a DIRECT result of the people that built that system. And THEY should be able to discriminate against whatever outsiders they want to. THIS is HOW the level of life was BETTER than other places.

This is HOW the quality of life got better for certain people. Because, NO OUTSIDERS were allowed to come a eat from fields they did not sew the seeds.

THAT IS THEFT..

MAKE THE IMMIGRANTS STAY WHERE THEY ARE... and make their own better..

HanzHenry
reply to post by LocalGenius

 

Should a group of people be FORCED to live near people they don't like?

Where can someone go that only wants similar people around? If a group of people want to live only around their own kind, why can't they?

The wages/benefits of the OP are a DIRECT result of the people that built that system. And THEY should be able to discriminate against whatever outsiders they want to. THIS is HOW the level of life was BETTER than other places.

This is HOW the quality of life got better for certain people. Because, NO OUTSIDERS were allowed to come a eat from fields they did not sew the seeds.

THAT IS THEFT..

MAKE THE IMMIGRANTS STAY WHERE THEY ARE... and make their own better..

edit on 1-12-2013 by HanzHenry because: bb

It's totally ok if you're Amish

HanzHenry
reply to post by akushla99

 

what if I like things in my sandbox a certain way.. As long as its mine why can't I have it my way?

I think my people are special and don't want outsiders to co-mingle.

If that is the case, why not?

if not here.. then fine.. I will leave.. what if where I go, through some 'divine intervention' my new sandbox in a far off place is BETTER than ALL THE REST?

should I then too allow foreigners to try and dictate there also?

When you're sick and tired of where you are now, and it becomes insupportable...YOU will be the foreigner eInstein...you're gonna wanna hope they take your type...

Kindergarten mentality...

Å99

ldyserenity
Australia's Economy

Nice article - thank you for sticking to the subject.

HanzHenry

MAKE THE IMMIGRANTS STAY WHERE THEY ARE... and make their own better..

LOL - at ya, not with ya.

They are immigrants if they stay home.

I'll leave it at that.

HanzHenry
reply to post by LocalGenius

 

Should a group of people be FORCED to live near people they don't like?

Where can someone go that only wants similar people around? If a group of people want to live only around their own kind, why can't they?

The wages/benefits of the OP are a DIRECT result of the people that built that system. And THEY should be able to discriminate against whatever outsiders they want to. THIS is HOW the level of life was BETTER than other places.

This is HOW the quality of life got better for certain people. Because, NO OUTSIDERS were allowed to come a eat from fields they did not sew the seeds.

THAT IS THEFT..

MAKE THE IMMIGRANTS STAY WHERE THEY ARE... and make their own better..

edit on 1-12-2013 by HanzHenry because: bb

No one is "Forcing" you to live near anybody, nor would you need to, you could always move? Also why wouldn't you like them? have they insulted you? hurt you? Why should they have to stay where they are, do you not get it man? this is our planet we should have the natural right to live where we want, but we don't. we should not enforce these rules, we should be against them, it's freedom, we don't have it, but I guess you're told you do so you believe that? :/ Wake up brother.

13th Zodiac
I am in Brisbane myself. Look 5 years ago I would have whole heartedly agreed with the sentiment of this post. Yes you are still 100% correct in in the facts and figures. But the gap is closing, this country is circling the drain right now. The Wheels are falling off. Many would be greatful to be abused at wallmart right now. The figures given of the US vs Australia really aren't reflective all the other circumstances of today. For example the unemployement rates, the real rates. Not the crap they tell you.

Workers in Australia are rapidly loosing all these earned conditions and employers are manipulating the high unemployment. Example a young girl at my wifes work, was told to work for free for a week as a try out?
This is unheard here in Australia and regarded as illegal. However employees are scared to do anything about it in todays employment climate and no she was not a imigrant either.

This is just scratching the Surface of the problems.

I'm in the US, my job hasn't paid me for the past month. They decided to save money by basically telling some of their employees that they consider expendable that we weren't being paid for a month. If we want to still have a job so we can be paid the following month we still have to show up to work. Considering employment opportunities are slim to none in town, no one stopped showing up. On the idea of trial work periods, I've done plenty of free weeks through temp agencies. What ends up happening is one can show up, do a great job, and still not be hired after the week. The reason is it's cheaper for the employer to just get a new temp every week that they pay almost nothing for (just a fee to the temp agency) than to actually get a good employee. Then we have the entire concept of unpaid internships as well, I've never done one but have friends that have. In certain industries they're expected, and in many cases you actually have to pay out of pocket for the internship as college credit that's required to graduate.

That's just the way it is here.

ldyserenity

HanzHenry
reply to post by LocalGenius

 

Should a group of people be FORCED to live near people they don't like?

Where can someone go that only wants similar people around? If a group of people want to live only around their own kind, why can't they?

edit on 1-12-2013 by HanzHenry because: bb

It's totally ok if you're Amish

that is an extremely DISRESPECTFUL response. Only one group of people deserve the right to live how they wish?

really?.. So, Everywhere else that a people has built something nice any immigrant from the world over should be allowed to FILCH off part of it?

HanzHenry

ldyserenity

HanzHenry
reply to post by LocalGenius

 

Should a group of people be FORCED to live near people they don't like?

Where can someone go that only wants similar people around? If a group of people want to live only around their own kind, why can't they?

edit on 1-12-2013 by HanzHenry because: bb

It's totally ok if you're Amish

that is an extremely DISRESPECTFUL response. Only one group of people deserve the right to live how they wish?

really?.. So, Everywhere else that a people has built something nice any immigrant from the world over should be allowed to FILCH off part of it?

Let me ask you a question buddy... What exactly have you built? Now unless your a builder of some sort I'm guessing the answer is nothing... You just think you're entitled to everything where you live because your mother gave birth to you there? If anyone is being disrespectful here it's you mate. How can you be so blind to not see yourself as EQUAL to every other human on this planet despite where you was born... It doesn't make you different, your blood is red just like everyone else's.

How would you feel if one day you woke up decided you want to pack your bags and make a new life for yourself in a new country but they wouldn't let you, I know personally I'd feel like I have no freedom at all.

First of all...the American Dream is alive and well. The problem is that some people think that dream is handed to them on a silver plate. It isn't. It is something you can achieve if you work hard and make smart decisions. Unless you consider that in America, you can also decide to sit on your ass and do nothing. If that is your dream...you can do that and survive.

And on the pay topic. No business can afford to pay people more than they are worth and more than they contribute to the company. If adding a cashier doesn't increase your income, your profit or to the happiness and satisfaction of your customers...it is a waste of money. Paying someone more than what works numbers wise toward these goals makes businesses go out of business. I'm sorry...but there are people out there worth much less per hour than the minimum wage. Its a fact and most of you have seen these people.

But thank God that there are places like Walmart where people without skills and/or people who are in transition to better jobs have some place to make money other than bleeding the other people dry. Don't believe me? Look around the world and show me anywhere where people make a "good living" without skills, without working hard, etc. where the country isn't falling apart...it doesn't exist.

PS: Politics doesn't count...thats a different thread

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE


show you?

How about before globalization.

The western world was great before that. 1960-1995 ish.. AMerica was PRETTY DARN sweet.

So was Australia, Uk, everywhere.

Just because a bunch of third worlders over populated their countries with too many kids per family, doesn't mena that those that had BETTER ANCESTORS should have to in ANY WAY, suffer ANY even MINUTE level loss of quality,

Even if it means others share on your sweet life.. Nope.

it becomes ALL third world..

HanzHenry
reply to post by WeAreAWAKE

 

show you?

How about before globalization.

The western world was great before that. 1960-1995 ish.. AMerica was PRETTY DARN sweet.

So was Australia, Uk, everywhere.

Just because a bunch of third worlders over populated their countries with too many kids per family, doesn't mena that those that had BETTER ANCESTORS should have to in ANY WAY, suffer ANY even MINUTE level loss of quality,

Even if it means others share on your sweet life.. Nope.

it becomes ALL third world..

Obvious that all these comments are coming from a pretty undeveloped part of the brain...'better ancestors', 'a bunch of third worlders'...cretinous and imbecilic comments...

Å99

The timely aspect of this discussion is that right now the money junkie mining magnates, like Jabba the Rinehart, are pushing for lower wages in Australia, while the catering industry for the abolishment of penalty rates (e.g., double-time for weekends / public holidays). They were actually discussing the U.S. wage system for waiters / waitress on radio the other day, and how you must tip hapless U.S. restaurant workers lest they literally starve!

Some who had worked in the U.S.said they didn't mind the system because you could 'lease' a table from a restaurateur and reap all the tips that came from it, reportedly earning $500-1000 per day / night. The problem was, A) it sounded like a bunch of bullshít, and B) even if true, it was certainly the extreme exception to the rule; with 99.99% of waiters and waitresses living on or below the poverty line.

Here's a recent article on the subject matter entitled, 'USA - Down in Jungleland', from the Foreign Correspondent TV program.

WeAreAWAKE
First of all...the American Dream is alive and well. The problem is that some people think that dream is handed to them on a silver plate. It isn't. It is something you can achieve if you work hard and make smart decisions. Unless you consider that in America, you can also decide to sit on your ass and do nothing. If that is your dream...you can do that and survive.

And on the pay topic. No business can afford to pay people more than they are worth and more than they contribute to the company. If adding a cashier doesn't increase your income, your profit or to the happiness and satisfaction of your customers...it is a waste of money. Paying someone more than what works numbers wise toward these goals makes businesses go out of business. I'm sorry...but there are people out there worth much less per hour than the minimum wage. Its a fact and most of you have seen these people.

But thank God that there are places like Walmart where people without skills and/or people who are in transition to better jobs have some place to make money other than bleeding the other people dry. Don't believe me? Look around the world and show me anywhere where people make a "good living" without skills, without working hard, etc. where the country isn't falling apart...it doesn't exist.

PS: Politics doesn't count...thats a different thread

edit on 12/2/2013 by WeAreAWAKE because: (no reason given)

how about australia for starters.... you know the example given in the opening post
fast food workers are being paid about $17.50 and the companies are doing just fine and with negligible cost being added to the products being sold
youre right an emplyer cant pay more if the numbers dont work but the fact is even some of the most unskilled jobs today are producing profits more than large enough to merit an increase in wages
and if minimum wage had kept up with inflation and cost of living it would be hovering around $25/hr
or are you going to tell me flipping burgers in the late 60s early 70swas somehow worth over three times as much as it is now (not that wages that high can be supported any longer thanks to this fun little race to the bottom weve found ourselves in that stagnant wages and outsourcing for the cheapest possible labor played no small part in creating)

but hey i got mine jack and thats all that really matters

It's all about greed...

I'm an employer in Australia.

I funded my own business, we have existed for almost a year and a half.

I currently have 5 employees (I need this many to have an effective team), and they're a great team... however...

I made a decision "not" to play by the systems' "rules", and everyone in my business gets paid the exact same wage.,, including myself.

The problem is greed... I work 12-16 hour days, (I dropped 30k to my current wage in order to strive for equality). My employess all are working their highest paid job ever... yet by law, they work a 38 hour week, and if they work more I have to pay them overtime... meaning they get paid more than me (I can't afford to pay myself overtime).

The system has set up a mindset of "get what you can, and screw the boss".

... so... I try doing something right, and the employees reap my hard work... where is the personal investment and altruism of everyone?

What do I do? Strive for equality?... or join the pack, offshore my labour, and pay myself the lion's share?

A connundrum.

Interesting thread.

puzzlesphere
It's all about greed...

I'm an employer in Australia.

I funded my own business, we have existed for almost a year and a half.

I currently have 5 employees (I need this many to have an effective team), and they're a great team... however...

I made a decision "not" to play by the systems' "rules", and everyone in my business gets paid the exact same wage.,, including myself.

The problem is greed... I work 12-16 hour days, (I dropped 30k to my current wage in order to strive for equality). My employess all are working their highest paid job ever... yet by law, they work a 38 hour week, and if they work more I have to pay them overtime... meaning they get paid more than me (I can't afford to pay myself overtime).

The system has set up a mindset of "get what you can, and screw the boss".

... so... I try doing something right, and the employees reap my hard work... where is the personal investment and altruism of everyone?

What do I do? Strive for equality?... or join the pack, offshore my labour, and pay myself the lion's share?

A connundrum.

Interesting thread.

Kudos to you, for putting your money where your mouth is, literally.

I remember a time over 10 years ago, where I worked for @ 10-15 years cash on hand. Then...I was doing the job of 2 people, underpaid and emminently dispensible. I made sure I was Indispensable, and that my skills were not flippantly passed to Thai workers (who were paid half of what I was paid - which wasn't much)...This was more to protect my intellectual property (system) that was deemed unskilled and free for them to have me pass to a worker paid half what I was. I remember having huge arguments with owners over this...'You should pass your skills!'...my solution was always 'you pay me a trainers wage, for teaching someone MY system, so that when you sack me, at least I have something to go on with'...(employer) 'It's an unskilled job, why would we pay you a training wage?'...(Me) 'then, if it is unskilled, what is it you want me to teach them?'...

The situation has reversed somewhat, in that, employers are inundated by legislation that supposedly protects the workers...and much of this legislation is begrudgingly followed anyway...my current position is governmental, and the 'letter' is followed, but is bogged down by mandated processes, that are window dressing...this has to be a major waste of time and money and resources for the employer...and a joke for the employee...

I was a business owner for a time, but found that workers were more interested in facebook than work (on business provided phones)...these were 'local' workers...the 'she'll be right, mate' attitude writ large, at someone elses expense...

Å99

HanzHenry
reply to post by LocalGenius

 

Should a group of people be FORCED to live near people they don't like?

Where can someone go that only wants similar people around? If a group of people want to live only around their own kind, why can't they?

The wages/benefits of the OP are a DIRECT result of the people that built that system. And THEY should be able to discriminate against whatever outsiders they want to. THIS is HOW the level of life was BETTER than other places.

This is HOW the quality of life got better for certain people. Because, NO OUTSIDERS were allowed to come a eat from fields they did not sew the seeds.

THAT IS THEFT..

MAKE THE IMMIGRANTS STAY WHERE THEY ARE... and make their own better..

edit on 1-12-2013 by HanzHenry because: bb

You sound like a child...

Do you feel the Afrikaneers should leave South Africa, I mean obviously they aren't wanted around there?

The quality of life got better because we were allowed to abuse those people in third world countries and steal their resources.

Everyone is a immigrant, I'm pretty sure you're a immigrant where ever you currently live.

Lastly, the IMMIGRANTS probably could make a better way if the U.S. and other countries would cease stealing their resources!!! Do you support all countries pulling out of Africa and allowing them to govern their own resources.

As a matter of fact you can ignore everything else I typed and answer this: Do you support EVERY country pulling out of Africa and allowing Africa to govern its own people, land and resources?

HanzHenry
reply to post by WeAreAWAKE

 

show you?

How about before globalization.

The western world was great before that. 1960-1995 ish.. AMerica was PRETTY DARN sweet.

So was Australia, Uk, everywhere.

Just because a bunch of third worlders over populated their countries with too many kids per family, doesn't mena that those that had BETTER ANCESTORS should have to in ANY WAY, suffer ANY even MINUTE level loss of quality,

Even if it means others share on your sweet life.. Nope.

it becomes ALL third world..

Are you even aware WHY America was so sweet? It's because we had an advantage, a headstart on the other countries after WW2 and we were abusing their resources and keeping them down with the help of the CIA.

By the way your ancestors may not have been better, they may have just been more evil and deceitful than indeginous people.

LocalGenius

HanzHenry

ldyserenity

HanzHenry
reply to post by LocalGenius

 

Should a group of people be FORCED to live near people they don't like?

Where can someone go that only wants similar people around? If a group of people want to live only around their own kind, why can't they?

edit on 1-12-2013 by HanzHenry because: bb

It's totally ok if you're Amish

that is an extremely DISRESPECTFUL response. Only one group of people deserve the right to live how they wish?

really?.. So, Everywhere else that a people has built something nice any immigrant from the world over should be allowed to FILCH off part of it?

Let me ask you a question buddy... What exactly have you built? Now unless your a builder of some sort I'm guessing the answer is nothing... You just think you're entitled to everything where you live because your mother gave birth to you there?

How would you feel if one day you woke up decided you want to pack your bags and make a new life for yourself in a new country but they wouldn't let you, I know personally I'd feel like I have no freedom at all.

I have paid through the loss of branches from my family tree. Countless loved ones whom are NOT there due to the price of my family. (societal speaking) Their sacrifices were for THEIR OFFSPRING.. not those the world over.

YES, as a member of a society that is BETTER than OTHERS... it is MY SOCIETY, and because I was "born there" then YES..

Someone born somewhere has MANY MORE rights than a foreign invader.. you don't agree? How about I come crash on your couch and eat out of your fridge..

I mean, I am only hungry and looking for better... for me and mine.

Why are you "entitled" to the food in your fridge?

HanzHenry

LocalGenius

HanzHenry

ldyserenity

HanzHenry
reply to post by LocalGenius

 

Should a group of people be FORCED to live near people they don't like?

Where can someone go that only wants similar people around? If a group of people want to live only around their own kind, why can't they?

edit on 1-12-2013 by HanzHenry because: bb

It's totally ok if you're Amish

that is an extremely DISRESPECTFUL response. Only one group of people deserve the right to live how they wish?

really?.. So, Everywhere else that a people has built something nice any immigrant from the world over should be allowed to FILCH off part of it?

Let me ask you a question buddy... What exactly have you built? Now unless your a builder of some sort I'm guessing the answer is nothing... You just think you're entitled to everything where you live because your mother gave birth to you there?

How would you feel if one day you woke up decided you want to pack your bags and make a new life for yourself in a new country but they wouldn't let you, I know personally I'd feel like I have no freedom at all.

I have paid through the loss of branches from my family tree. Countless loved ones whom are NOT there due to the price of my family. (societal speaking) Their sacrifices were for THEIR OFFSPRING.. not those the world over.

YES, as a member of a society that is BETTER than OTHERS... it is MY SOCIETY, and because I was "born there" then YES..

Someone born somewhere has MANY MORE rights than a foreign invader.. you don't agree? How about I come crash on your couch and eat out of your fridge..

I mean, I am only hungry and looking for better... for me and mine.

Why are you "entitled" to the food in your fridge?

Really? Explain to me when an "Immigrant" Has ever walked into your house and crashed on your sofa and ate from your fridge please. I'm from the UK and we have alot of people who are here illegally and I've not once heard of that happening, most of them come here and work and provide for themselves so what you just said is very ignorant man, it's kind of pointless debating with you because you just have your heart set on hate for absolutely no reason at all. Also no, I do not agree that just because I was born in UK I should have "many more rights" A mindset like that to me sounds like racism, they are HUMAN just like me so we should have equal rights no matter what.