Labor As Seen from Down Under: Fair Wages and Decent Benefits Profit Everyone

reply to post by nwtrucker


Immigration has RUINED every civilization..

Why would someone build something for his people if every other people will come and plunder it?

the only reason the western world was great is the people the built it were great.

Look at all the countries where people immigrate from.. Those are people from some ultra crappy place..

I do NOT want to be around third worlders, they turn stuff third world. It is HOW THEY ACT..

Look at the countries that people are from.. pick the nice countries with CIVILIZED people that act/talk/walk the same and you will not hurt the society.

reply to post by HanzHenry


I gotta disagree.
quickly looking at seek there are plenty of jobs available with generous conditions.
You still cannot be fired without due cause, I've watched total idiots come in and do nothing, however management cant fire them without giving them training, proper guidance, instruction and opportunity to prove themselves.
You still get 10% ADDED to your income for your super account from your company.
You still get 4 weeks leave
and tax sits around 25% for the average income earner.
and our average wage is around $70k (
Consider the US exchange rate is around 91c.
How many Americans would like a job that pays 91% of $70k with 4 weeks pay?


We've got it sweet. Personally, I agree with the 1 week trial period. If your committed enough work for a week, then we'll talk. Hell, the employer might throw in a few lunches here or there and it could become a great working relationship.

Problem with Australia, is anyone under 30 thinks they are owed a job and owed an income and owed respect. No ones willing to do the hard yards, sacrifice their weekend booze ups, not get in an HSV and go do burnouts throughout the suburbs, all today's kids are lazy, selfish and misguided.

The main people that are going to be made redundant in today's Australia are retail workers.. ie Harvey Normans, Myers, dick smith type outlets.. because online shopping will remove the shopfront concept.

The people that earn $150k per year fly in fly out.. the projects stopped coming in about 12 months ago.. the current projects will be finished in 18-24months.. all those top dollar blue collar types will drop down to the $80k that they're jobs at.

Anyone who does a job at a computer that doesn't require direct hands on or face to face contact are at risk.. because our greedy CEO's have seen the results outsourcing does for profits!

Our mining boom finishes when China setups their iron ore operations in South Africa.

The money and the future is going to be in shale oil in the desert and off shore gas fields.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


I see it here in the USA.. now that the economy has flat lined, no one can get paid a decent wage because the immigration has doubled the number of bodies/workers looking for a job!

and the rent has doubled, because supply/demand due to the flood of people. And one can NOT live cheaper, or else you are stuck in an immigrant neighborhood with the trash that goes along with it.

If the people of Australia, and the US, UK, etc.. would have VEHEMENTLY been VERY unfriendly to the immirgants that came, they would have left, and BILLIONS more wouldn't be on the way.

And the 2 class society (haves /have nots) is exactly the future everywhere, and Pay/Benefits will continue to go down..

WHy? because the corps/owners are able to bring in cheaper foreign labor!

that means less for the natives.. and something BETTER for the foreigner!!


the ultimate screw job for the FUTURE generations of the people that built the societies and a WIN for the immigrants!

that sends me into an almost ----cidal rage!..

because the ELites have pitted different people against another. and the immigrants will ALWAYS choose something better, no MATTER who it HURTS!.. because it is "more for their family"...

at the expense of those that should be able to sit back and say "hey, there employer, pay us decent our it ain;t getting done".. that is how pay/benefits RISE..

watch.. decrease in pay/benefits ALWAYS coincides with INCREASED IMMIGRATION..

then, IF stuff is ever able to recover to prosperity, those that immigrated will share in it.. SICKENING!!!

reply to post by HanzHenry


I see your point. I'd just restate it to "over" immigration, not immigration. New blood is acceptable...even desirable, to a degree.

Australia has a nice thing going right now. mainly self-contained. Similar to Canada in that exports are more natural resource based than manufacturing, per say.

Resources based economies have the luxury of charging market prices. Manufacturing based economies have competition in labor costs, and depending on the greed factor of the gov'ts, heavy costs to bear.

The only flexibility is in the labor costs.

But, again, it's only a factor, not the root cause. Self-interest has trumped national interests. Cheaper labor, a bigger base to cover Social Security's coming shortfall- white papers were printed almost simultaneously in Canada and the U.S. back in the '70s stating massive immigration could be the cure for the coming social security/social insurance shortfalls.

So we have both political parties and the gov't pushing high immigration.

Over immigration is the symptom, not the cause. It wouldn't be occurring if we had leaders, both in gov't and the private sector who had morals higher than a pimp. IMO.

I, feel free to disagree, find it counterproductive and -- no...

I honestly don't know what to say or how to handle deliberate diversion and heaping hate on 'others' in a thread. I thought that just ignoring it might be best but it seems cowardly somehow in a thread you've started.

I suppose I left it open by asking what was wrong without being specific. Some will use any opening to ruin the conversation, I shouldn't be surprised by it. In certain circles this behavor is taught and praised and is a symptom of a very sick system.

I'm sorry, I'd hoped for civilized discussion and not a barrage of hate.

The world burns, around the Commonwealth....

And we are still wondering who is REALLY running the show?

Agit8dChop
reply to post by HanzHenry

 

I gotta disagree.
quickly looking at seek there are plenty of jobs available with generous conditions.
You still cannot be fired without due cause, I've watched total idiots come in and do nothing, however management cant fire them without giving them training, proper guidance, instruction and opportunity to prove themselves.

edit on 29-11-2013 by Agit8dChop because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-11-2013 by Agit8dChop because: (no reason given)

Yes you can in many states look it up Google is your friend one is NJ FL PA all can fire you without any damn reason whatsoever and there's others I am sure. Actually there are 43 AT WILL EMPLOYMENT states.

nwtrucker
reply to post by akushla99

 

Obviously, you miss his point. Immigration made these countries. Excessive immigration, hurts it.

Rather simple really.

There's over one million LEGAL, documented workers, allowed into the U.S. each year. This does not include the illegal immigrants. IT IS A FACTOR. A little loony to let that many in and legalize the illegals when you have many millions unemployed.

I can't list all the things that have gone awry here, it's too depressing, but, take some solace in the fact that the vast, vast majority of Americans are good people and will not give up. Not their personal dreams, nor the nation's.

Whether it gets fixed or not remains to be seen. What consequences face us and the world before and if it does get fixed is scary to think about.

Wish us luck.....

No...I don't 'miss the point'...

What I see is a very false sense of 'ownership' of a country/countries that were founded under colonising empires...added to this is the fact that, the generations that now claim ownership, and attribute the problems of a global situation - to a more than normal shifting of populations around the globe...as if this has never happened before - and that your forebears did not arrive in a country, under the same auspices...is a very narrow-minded appraisal of the situation, based on an assumed 'ownership'. Every person you will meet, will be the son or daughter of an immigrant (or a grandchild, great-grandchild etc)...we are ALL immigrants (when you go far enough backwards)...what parameters you use to claim ownership, is the problem...merely positing that folk should just get back to where they came from, is puerile and waaay ignorant, and does not address a problem that these so-called 1st World Nations, with thier superior intelligence and technological advancement, and thier liberal - anyone can make it - ghost attitudes - should be able to solve without resorting to an institutionalised form of racism...

Å99

reply to post by akushla99


Therefore, our solution is zero restriction on immigration? Wide open? One world order? Let your lack of results in Haiti, at least, economically, be solved by migrant workers to other countries and send monies back home?

Sorry, but no thanks.

There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Balance.

Combined with other factors, the advantage in going to an industrialized nation for work is diminishing daily.

Lower wages, less opportunity AND the slow destruction of our economies and therefore, MY lifestyle and my children's and my grandchildren's.

What was true 100, 50 years ago is no longer true.

OVER-immigration is a factor.

I for one, am not "bending over" based on your well selected "truths" and allow without comment the idea that emigration is some "right" without some control.

That control cannot come from outside the country in question, otherwise that "control" would be specious.

Deal with it.

If some here think that ALL people should be able to immigrate wherever. JUST BECAUSE in the past, the Euro/Anglos were advanced enough to take stuff from others and build it into something they would not have been able to build still in this era?

really?, because in the past... so, the immigrants from LOSER COUNTRIES should be able to take stuff from them?

Fine.. where is my sword, because if that IS the case...

Can the Euro/Anglos start the killing/plunder/pillage again?

GAME ON!

nwtrucker
reply to post by akushla99

 

Therefore, our solution is zero restriction on immigration? Wide open? One world order? Let your lack of results in Haiti, at least, economically, be solved by migrant workers to other countries and send monies back home?

Sorry, but no thanks.

There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Balance.

Combined with other factors, the advantage in going to an industrialized nation for work is diminishing daily.

Lower wages, less opportunity AND the slow destruction of our economies and therefore, MY lifestyle and my children's and my grandchildren's.

What was true 100, 50 years ago is no longer true.

OVER-immigration is a factor.

I for one, am not "bending over" based on your well selected "truths" and allow without comment the idea that emigration is some "right" without some control.

That control cannot come from outside the country in question, otherwise that "control" would be specious.

Deal with it.

That's your only thinktanked solution?...coming from 1st world education?...shut the gate?
Paranoia can make you see everything as NWO - even the result of paranoiac thinking.

Luckily, you're not camped and kitted in a luxurious japara-tent, or, salvaged cardboard for walls...walking 2 kms for just water each day, to feed your children...s'funny, we never hear from shanty town residents of the world on these boards...net must be permanently down...what are you watching on the idiot box tonite, in air conditioned comfort, with the fridge permanently on, clean tap water from the faucet, flushable and sanitised toilet facilities (unshared), locked shower cubicles - heat lamp and fan running with clean towels ready - washed in the 5star machine, built by lower paid workers...drive around in air conditioned - autoglide - powerwindow, carriages - watching the world go by through the square window as if it were a movie you could walk out of, getting angry at the screen...

You're right...shut the gate...I don't care a hoot either...not like it's my problem I left too late to deal with, and now I'm stuck on one solution...I'm alright jack, and I want to keep it that way, don't want no filthy, do nothing for money, foreigners in my back yard...its my sandbox dammit!

Å99

You're right...shut the gate...I don't care a hoot either...not like it's my problem I left too late to deal with, and now I'm stuck on one solution...I'm alright jack, and I want to keep it that way, don't want no filthy, do nothing for money, foreigners in my back yard...its my sandbox dammit!

works for me dude.

My ancestors build a sandbox through GENERATIONS of LOST COUSINS, aunts, uncles, etc..

You are DARN RIGHT!! those lost branches from the family tree were NOT in VAIN.

they were for OUR PEOPLE.


IF some foreign person can DICTATE what you do with your OWN SANDBOX, in YOUR OWN YARD..

I say, fine.. old school rules..

BARBARIAN and VIKING ancestry UNITE... GAME ON!!

plus, I think my people are BEAUTIFUL.. I want my grandkids to look like my people. What is wrong with that?
I have blue eyes, my wife and children have different shades of blue eyes. And cousins that have blue, green, hazel, eyes. And red hair, blond hair, brown hair, black hair, etc.. all colors.. like a rainbow.

I truly want to live ONLY near PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF.. even genetically.. is that EVIL?

Australia's Economy

reply to post by akushla99


what if I like things in my sandbox a certain way.. As long as its mine why can't I have it my way?

I think my people are special and don't want outsiders to co-mingle.

If that is the case, why not?

if not here.. then fine.. I will leave.. what if where I go, through some 'divine intervention' my new sandbox in a far off place is BETTER than ALL THE REST?

should I then too allow foreigners to try and dictate there also?

reply to post by HanzHenry


LOl, nice try, but it won't work. I didn't say "close the door". Merely, control it. Limit it. Besides, guilt trips work only so long. It doesn't take much brain power to recognize that one nation,or a few, can't save the whole planet's victims.

The U.S. does more than it's share of immigration and, in my opinion, too much, considering the current economic situation.

Ultimately, population redistribution is not a solution, it merely defers the problems...it solves nothing.

akushla99
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

I don't know how or why, the US achieves, ministrates and justifies its twisted...'fair days work for a fair days pay'...

If 'incentive' is pay alone...the US would seem to be utilising a kind of slave labour model, that, requires the worker to be eminently grateful for what they are given...and this seems to fly in the face of 'anyone can make it' - platitudes.

I'm not familiar with the internal workings of the labour model in the US, so, have very little to go on, or care for, since it is contradictory.

Aussies tend to have a secret pride in the 'convict' mentality - especially when you learn that, most of these 'convicts' were deemed so by dent of hunger, or, necessity (from the old country)...there is a healthy string of fairness running through its...sensibility - and yet, Liberal-minded factions always try to usurp that fairness, by, adopting the royal 'We'...and trying to pass it off as wealth for the common man, when, in reality, legislation can bog that message to the Nth...

Å99

It was called the "American Dream". You came over to the USA as a poor immigrant with nothing but an old suit and the shoes on your feet, found somewhere cheap to live, a minimum wage job that kept a roof over your head, fed the family and sent them to school. Then they could go to college and live the middle class dream, and they had made it.

But now, not even the minimum wage job pays for food as farmland has been taken out of production for housing, bio-fuels or even just for conservation purposes. So the cost of food and housing has gone up, while salaries have gone down due to all the additional competition.

reply to post by FyreByrd


It also depends on where you are working. There are states that offer higher pay rates than other states. For example in Casper Wyoming starting to work for Domino's Pizza (or Pizza Hot now I can't remember which) the starting pay was $15 an hour. A lot of people really have no idea of what has been happening all over the country, but in the 6 years I lived in Wyoming/Montana and got to see Utah and other states I saw big changes for the worst in Casper Wyoming.

It was only 8 years ago that if you would rent, or buy a house the price was cheaper than it is now. I made many friends living in Casper, and people from al over the world, and many of us started by renting apartments, although for the first 6 months my company was paying for my room at the hotel, and it was a nice hotel.

Anyway, I finally found an apartment to rent, and it was a very large apartment with a large kitchen, large living room and walk-in closets. When I moved there the rent was $410 a month... Then the bad news came. Some big company from California thought that people in Casper Wyoming were earning too much money and they tought that they could increase the price of the real state. They bought apartment complexes and other real estate and within about 4-6 months their rent doubled and the prices of other real estate also went to the roof. Back in 2005 you could buy a pretty cool house for $134k, now you probably won't find anything that good for under 200k.

Casper is becoming more and more "progressive" and sorry but it's the truth, that is what has been causing the raise in real estate among other things.

Try getting a stake/claim in BML land, if you know anything about precious metals/stones, and you will find it hard, almost impossible to do now. It can still be done, more so if you have friends in high places, but most often than not the Progressives will make claims that "the entire area should be just a treasure for everyone for the good of all" while on your back they give the claim to a large corporation...

What I don't know is if the previous owners of the real estate were forced to sell, because for some reason different owners did sell almost at the same time their real estate. I wish I knew more about it because it was a shame what happened in Casper. But anyway, I can always go live in Utah, which I am planning to do.

I am Australian, have lived in Australia most of my life and have also lived in the USA for around 10 years so I have seen life in both country's with my own eyes.
Some of you are are right, over-immigration does not help for most part BUT it is another symptom, its not the cause. In this day and age those from other country's are really a part of the system we live in. Like others have tried to state, It is from those people we get cheap clothes, food and other stuff. Stuff we need to survive and could not produce on "home soil" as cheaply or efficiently (ok, that could be debatable). But immigration is just one symptom but ultimately it doesn't matter what symptom you are talking about, if you follow it to its root, you find the real problem is greed. Human nature is such that the more you have, the more you want. I am not saying that your greedy because you think immigrants suck from the system that our ancestors built and we inherited but rather I am saying the problem is the greed of those that have it all. The richest people in the world, the so called richest 3%. It is the greed of those people that make the rest of us suffer. World society has always been engineered, it is seeded into the public consciousness that the problems we face are due to over-population, immigration, scarcity, race, religion and a whole host of other things, when in fact these things are meant to keep us from seeing the truth and to keep us pitted against one another. Educate yourself on groups such as Bilderberg and how they keep the masses controlled and under-foot. I am completely against what they do and what they stand for but I have to admire how successful they are at doing what they do. They are damned good at it. We used to be divided into groups of nationality but now days its an illusion. The reality is we are one group and that group is humanity and out of humanity there is rich and the poor. The rich/poor divide is getting wider everyday and unless we do something about it soon, it will be too late.

HanzHenry
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

what is wrong?

All the slimeballs that have went along with the current system, went to some computer tech school or something.
All those that chose to work within the corrupted system are the ones against it, because sure, they aren't at the top. But they feel good knowing there are others "doing worse".

You will see all the sheeple: nurses, IT, sales, etc.. all those people who worked a long time in the CORRUPT SYSTEM to get where they were somehow think that since they took the PUNK route, they should "be doing better than"... say someone who flips burgers.

Well, I have seen those DeVry and University of Phoenix people, their careers are no more respectable than a toilet scrubber at Wendy's. And, they do NOT deserve to be paid more..

so i went to school, got a degree, and dont deserve more than a toilet scrubber? im a punk?

guess what sparky. i can and have scrubbed toilets. anyone off the street can do that job. lets see them do my job with no training or experience.

that being said, the guys at the top should not make 700x more than the bottom, nor should the bottom make poverty wages.

fair pay does not mean equal pay.

HanzHenry
reply to post by akushla99

 

certain people one time past immigrated and built things FOR THEIR PEOPLE..

so, then because they did.. others should be allowed to take what was built by someone else?

Immigrants push wages down and cost of living goes UP..

deny that,, I DARE YOU!!..

why should a group of people be FORCED to SUBSIDIZE the improvement in quality of life for ANOTHER? and at THEIR OWN EXPENSE!!.. FFS!!

when one group of people builds something it IS NOT for OTHERS!! it is for THEIR OWN PEOPLE!!

ffs..

so tired of the immigrant.. played out excuse..

STAY WHERE YOU ARE FROM AND BUILD YOUR OWN..!!!

edit on 29-11-2013 by HanzHenry because: clear

They are FROM this planet and I'm pretty sure they STAY on this planet, do you not think in a fair world a human should be able to call anywhere on this planet home, considering they was born on this planet. I'm from UK and I have absolutely no problem with people coming here from other countries and working, they have just as much right as I do to provide for their families as that is all they are doing, we are all people of the planet earth, the sooner that is realized the better instead "hes different than I am because he was born on a few thousand miles away so he shouldn't be allowed here to work" Honestly it's just one step down from racism, 2013? Hah, Sure doesn't feel like it.

One more thing, before I get replies with "But it ruins the system bla bla bla" Then don't you think the system is already ruined? Time for a new system aye? after all until the world starts catering for everyone as a whole and not treating people differently because they are on a different rock, then there is ALWAYS going to be wars and maybe if there was no wars, wealth, food could be spread equally and maybe people would not feel the need to put their lives in danger trying to get into a different country to provide for their sons/daughters.

I'm sure you people going on about how wrong it for people to illegally go into your country never go to sleep hungry do you? so really how bad is it affecting you?