Yes .. the Holy Spirit of the 'Trinity' is in Christian Scripture

DISRAELI
reply to post by Akragon

 

Now you're getting into the whole Trinity doctrine.
As I understand the title of this thread, it was specifically about the Holy Spirit, so I will confine myself to that topic.

The holy spirit being God is the OP's topic... And in the Trinity doctrine all three are equal...

There is absolutely no support of this idea in the bible... There is nothing that says the holy spirit is equal to God, aside from extremely vague associations as you've clearly stated... Moreover there is no support of Jesus being "equal" to God either... at least not from his mouth...

FlyersFan stated that one should pay close attention to a verse that specifically uses "the formula"... which Paul does not use... and was added after the fact which I stated in my original post.

other then that she was making a point that the Holy spirit is mentioned in the bible....

that much is quite obvious... yet the associations that the Holy spirit is in fact "God" are spurious to say the least... and by no means equal as the Christian Creed states

in any case I think I've said my piece

reply to post by Akragon

That was my point.
The Spirit being equal with God was on-topic.
Jesus being or not being equal with God is not.

DISRAELI
reply to post by Akragon

 

That was my point.
The Spirit being equal with God was on-topic.
Jesus being or not being equal with God is not.

How can the spirit be equal with God... IF God is greater then all as Jesus stated?

reply to post by Akragon

If the Spirit IS God, then the Spirit is equal with God.

DISRAELI
reply to post by Akragon

 

If the Spirit IS God, then the Spirit is equal with God.

IF the Holy spirit is God as you stated... Why does Paul never address him as such?

Paul was the main man of the Christian church... Yet he makes no association with the holy spirit being equal to God... Nor does Jesus... OR any of the apostles.

The issue of "equality" is addressed by Jesus... he said NONE are equal to his Father... Not even Him

SO if Jesus "the son of God" isn't even equal... How can the comforter (paraclete) take precedence over the son?

Akragon
IF the Holy spirit is God as you stated... Why does Paul never address him as such?

Paul was the main man of the Christian church... Yet he makes no association with the holy spirit being equal to God...

1 Corinthians ch3 v16
1 Corinthians ch2 vv10-11

reply to post by DISRAELI


Lets have a look...

1 cor 3
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1 cor 2
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

So according to Paul...the spirit of God IS the holy spirit... Thus What dwells within us is equal to God because it is the "spirit of God" that is within...

SO we are equal to God... as I've said previously on the last page

Akragon
So according to Paul...the spirit of God IS the holy spirit... Thus What dwells within us is equal to God because it is the "spirit of God" that is within...

SO we are equal to God... as I've said previously on the last page

No, Paul treats the "spirit of a man" and the "Spirit of God" as different things.
The similarity is that the "Spirit of God" relates to God as closely as "the spirit of man" relates to man.
But there is a difference in relation to ourselves;
The "spirit of a man" is native to him.
The "Spirit of God" indwells man only as a visitor.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Yet Jesus who is "apparently" one with the holy spirit and the Father... said

I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Seems like a permanent visitor to me...

reply to post by Akragon

One who comes from outside the house is a visitor, even if he stays permanently.
The contrast I made between "visitor" and "native" was evidently about origin, not about length of stay.

reply to post by DISRAELI


perhaps...

but if he is with us always would that not be even before birth?

IF not then it is not "always" as he stated... it is sometimes... even eventually

Unless of course our "spirit" is created at birth... which also contradicts what Jesus taught...

reply to post by Akragon

If he had meant the statement to be retrospective, he would have said "I was" not "I am".

reply to post by DISRAELI


No.. because that was a name given by the "angel of the lord" to moses... it wasn't just a statement on his part

Ehyeh asher ehyeh literally translates as "I Will Be What I Will Be...

IF he said "I was"... that wouldn't be the correct name...

the name is referring to his pre existence... which also means he must be with us even before this incarnation not just as a visitor...

ALWAYS... like he said

reply to post by Akragon

He's not even using the "name" at that point.
The literal word order in the Greek is "I with you am".
This is a straightforward present tense of the verb "to be", meaning "from now onwards", the focus being on "to the close of the age".
That has relevance to the situation, while your ingenious doctine would have been irrelevant at that point.
But we are in danger of getting away from the topic of the thread, which is the New Testament teaching about the Holy Spirit.

reply to post by DISRAELI


I agree we are drifting a bit...

Though if that is the case would it not mean the "Holy spirit" is with us Always from that point on?

reply to post by Akragon

I don't see why not. There is no suggestion that the Holy Spirit will be taken away once sent.
But you must recall that "with you" (both in the case of the presence of Jesus, and in the case of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit) is addressing believers, not every individual in the world.

VoiceInTheWilderness
The New Testament authors didn't come up with the doctrine of the Trinity. To say so shows that you haven't done your research and study.

I didn't say that it was new in the New Testament.
What I did was show how it is there, because it was said on another thread that it wasn't.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Alright... Well my friend its been a pleasure chatting with you about this

IF I continue on from this point in our discussion we will most definitely derail the thread

Im going to go back and give you a few stars for being so very pleasant in this debate

thanks brother

Akragon
The holy spirit being God is the OP's topic... And in the Trinity doctrine all three are equal...
There is absolutely no support of this idea in the bible...

If the three are one ... then they are equal because they are all from the same source.

It is the Spirit which testifieth that Christ is the truth. For there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the WOrd, and the Holy Spirit. And these three are one. 1 John 5:7

DISRAELI
The Spirit being equal with God was on-topic.
Jesus being or not being equal with God is not.

Well ... if they are three in one, then they are all one in essence so I'd say that all three
can be discussed. I"m focusing in on the Holy Spirit, but I think Jesus could be a part of
the Trinity discussion ... since He's part of it.

Akragon
IF the Holy spirit is God as you stated... Why does Paul never address him as such?

Don't get me started on Paul. He's not my favorite person from the bible ...

reply to post by FlyersFan

If the three are one ... then they are equal because they are all from the same source.

yes but as I've stated in my OP in your thread... that passage is not from John...

it was a later addition...

The Comma Johanneum