Fluoride row: Byron Bay votes to uphold ban in water supply

Hi,

Just read this from The Guardian...

I'm very glad to hear that more and more areas in Australia are voting against fluoridation of the water supply. I can't remember the other towns/cities that have stopped it but I wish they would stop it across the board.

www.theguardian.com...

Awesome news I reckon!

reply to post by Cruff


Yes, it is good to see people voting about something they fear. I love when I see this.

If it was about the forced medication of the masses I would understand. This is about fluoride the poison that is going to kill everyone! (cue evil laughter).

Love it.

They deny free medicare in most of the world.
They could put vitamins in the water supply and really do some good, but they dont.
They allow the sale of extremely unhealthy teeth rotting food.
etc
etc
Unless a person has already ingested so much fluoride they can no longer think straight, then surely they must be able to see that it just doesnt add up!

They dont care about us!
If they did they'd offer free medicare and they'd see that every child on the planet gets a decent meal every day. There's just so many things they could do to improve peoples lives but they DONT WANT TO!
So surely you gotta wonder why they are so INSISTENT that we all have a daily dose of fluoride?
Fluoride set you up for long term illness later in life, but more importantly for them, it hinders critical thinking, and thats why they want us all drinking it every day.

reply to post by VoidHawk


Indeed! Good points.

I sent a letter some time ago to my local council about it and I eventually got a letter back from the Health dept saying yadda yadda good teeth...etc etc etc.

From all that I have read, it's just industrial waste. Yummy!

reply to post by VoidHawk


Every one of your points is valid and makes a tonne of sense, except for the last two lines.

Other than that, we see eye to eye.

reply to post by superman2012


Everyone should watch this vid.
If you havent got time then at least listen to the proffesor who's on for about 15 mins at the beginning.
Later in the vid we hear from the people who actualy put the stuff into the drinking water, and they tell you just how bad this stuff is.
An Inconvenient Tooth.

reply to post by VoidHawk


Thanks for that. I haven't seen that doco - will have to check it out later.

Kudos to Byron Bay! What a beautiful place, and they got brains and wish to keep them too.

reply to post by VoidHawk


Everything could potentially kill you if you drink/eat enough of it. Hell, even if you do the wrong action towards something usually benign it could kill you.

Drink water. Healthy.
Breathe water. Deadly.

Add moderate amount of salt to food. Delicious.
Eat a pound of salt. Deadly.

The fact is that there are no facts that prove that adding fluoride into water (at levels deemed acceptable) have EVER hurt/killed anyone.

Remember, facts. Not your friends friend who got dental fluorosis from water. I want to see data.

I get it though. People have been fearing this since the stories of the Russians when it was first introduced. Not enough information out there = panic and fear by people that go by word of mouth.

superman2012
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

Add moderate amount of salt to food. Delicious.
Eat a pound of salt. Deadly.

By putting that poison in the water the following is true.
Fact - Once you put it in the water supply you force people to take a medicine, so there's no informed consent.
Fact - Once you put it in the water you cant control the dose.
Fact - Once you put it in the water you cant control who gets it, that means the very old, the very young, the very sick, people with poor kidney function, etc, and there's no supervision, so no doctor checking for side effects!
Fact - They medicate without knowing whether you may have an adverse reaction.
Fact - They medicate without knowing your age.
Fact - They medicate without knowing your weight.
Fact - They medicate without knowing whether you have any health issues.

A doctor cannot medicate anyone without knowing all the above! Thats true isn't it!
Whether you've seen the science is irrelevant because ALL the above is more than enough reason why it should not be in the water!

You said

The fact is that there are no facts that prove that adding fluoride into water (at levels deemed acceptable) have EVER hurt/killed anyone.

I suggest you watch the vid I posted above.

reply to post by superman2012


So why do they add fluoride to water then. I study the actual evidence of stuff like this, and the evidence does not show that it even helps teeth. You could twist the evidence to fit. I studied foods and medicines that contain fluoride compounds. I studied the levels in foods naturally. There is no need to add fluoride to water, it is present in everything. Fluoride acts as a diuretic and it also is an active part of many medicines that settle people down. Diuretics can cause mineral deficiencies. It can effect people's intelligence by depressing thyroid and cellular function. That is why it is in certain meds.

rickymouse
reply to post by superman2012

 

So why do they add fluoride to water then. I study the actual evidence of stuff like this, and the evidence does not show that it even helps teeth. You could twist the evidence to fit. I studied foods and medicines that contain fluoride compounds. I studied the levels in foods naturally. There is no need to add fluoride to water, it is present in everything. Fluoride acts as a diuretic and it also is an active part of many medicines that settle people down. Diuretics can cause mineral deficiencies. It can effect people's intelligence by depressing thyroid and cellular function. That is why it is in certain meds.

edit on 28-11-2013 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)

You know why they add it. We have gone over this many times.

Poor people cannot afford tooth care.
Bad teeth can lead to a plethora of health problems.
Poor people cannot afford health care.
Taxpayers pay for their health care.
It is cheaper to try to aid them in dental care.

Fluoride is present in MANY foods. Not to the level that it would affect anyone though. Arsenic is also in MANY things you ingest...not to any level that would harm you though.

I'm sure you have a scientific source for your claims? The only ones I have seen before are the ones that make a claim that cannot be measured, that it affects your pineal gland and destroys your aura or something just as unprovable.

Thanks in advance for the credible sources!

reply to post by VoidHawk

By putting that poison in the water the following is true.

Sorry, but I will go line by line to address them.

Fact - Once you put it in the water supply you force people to take a medicine, so there's no informed consent.

I have never once stated that people shouldn't have a say nor should they be medicated without consent. If they were not ignorant to what they were drinking, they have many choices.

Fact - Once you put it in the water you cant control the dose.

I think this is the most ignorant statement I have seen in regards to fluoridation. Why do you say that? You control the dosing BEFORE you put it in the water. There is no way to control the dosing after mixing it in. That's like adding flour into a cake mix and then trying to make less flour after you are done mixing it in. It makes no sense.

Fact - Once you put it in the water you cant control who gets it, that means the very old, the very young, the very sick, people with poor kidney function, etc, and there's no supervision, so no doctor checking for side effects!

No you can't control who gets it. The people can choose to drink it or not though. There are no instances of people getting hurt/killed with the proper dosage going out into the water supply. Not one.

Fact - They medicate without knowing whether you may have an adverse reaction.

If someone is allergic to fluoride in the concentrations that are in treated/properly dosed water, they better watch out. Fluoride is naturally occurring in many foods and in water.

Fact - They medicate without knowing your age.
Fact - They medicate without knowing your weight.

These two go together and right in with the "most ridiculous" argument.
What, pray tell, do either of these have to do with fluoride in water?
What? Babies get the same dosage as adults?
Oh right. Yes that is right. However, they are not getting the same AMOUNT as an adult. If I mixed 1 cup of milk into 10 cups of water and then poured out 8 cups and then 2 cups, the ratio of water:milk would be the same.
That argument makes no sense and is just more baseless fearmongering.

Fact - They medicate without knowing whether you have any health issues.

You have ANY sources (again, credible ones) that show fluoride interacts with any other health issues?

I suggest you watch the vid I posted above.

Won't matter. No one has ever been able to give me a case/study showing that properly dosed fluoride in water treatment has ever hurt or killed anyone.

...but then there's this...

Whether you've seen the science is irrelevant

...which tells me that no matter how someone can shove your face in facts, you will shut your eyes tighter and tighter the closer you get.

Of all the people in all the cities in all the world give me one example of a person getting hurt/killed by properly dosed water fluoridation.

I'll wait...
(ps-I've done this before and received zero replies)

superman2012
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

By putting that poison in the water the following is true.

Sorry, but I will go line by line to address them.

Fact - Once you put it in the water supply you force people to take a medicine, so there's no informed consent.

I have never once stated that people shouldn't have a say nor should they be medicated without consent. If they were not ignorant to what they were drinking, they have many choices.

Fact - Once you put it in the water you cant control the dose.

I think this is the most ignorant statement I have seen in regards to fluoridation. Why do you say that? You control the dosing BEFORE you put it in the water. There is no way to control the dosing after mixing it in. That's like adding flour into a cake mix and then trying to make less flour after you are done mixing it in. It makes no sense.

Fact - Once you put it in the water you cant control who gets it, that means the very old, the very young, the very sick, people with poor kidney function, etc, and there's no supervision, so no doctor checking for side effects!

No you can't control who gets it. The people can choose to drink it or not though. There are no instances of people getting hurt/killed with the proper dosage going out into the water supply. Not one.

Fact - They medicate without knowing whether you may have an adverse reaction.

If someone is allergic to fluoride in the concentrations that are in treated/properly dosed water, they better watch out. Fluoride is naturally occurring in many foods and in water.

Fact - They medicate without knowing your age.
Fact - They medicate without knowing your weight.

These two go together and right in with the "most ridiculous" argument.
What, pray tell, do either of these have to do with fluoride in water?
What? Babies get the same dosage as adults?
Oh right. Yes that is right. However, they are not getting the same AMOUNT as an adult. If I mixed 1 cup of milk into 10 cups of water and then poured out 8 cups and then 2 cups, the ratio of water:milk would be the same.
That argument makes no sense and is just more baseless fearmongering.

Fact - They medicate without knowing whether you have any health issues.

You have ANY sources (again, credible ones) that show fluoride interacts with any other health issues?

I suggest you watch the vid I posted above.

Won't matter. No one has ever been able to give me a case/study showing that properly dosed fluoride in water treatment has ever hurt or killed anyone.

...but then there's this...

Whether you've seen the science is irrelevant

...which tells me that no matter how someone can shove your face in facts, you will shut your eyes tighter and tighter the closer you get.

You say people have choices so dont have to drink it. For a few that may be true, but for the vast majority, they have no choice. Most bottled water contains fluoride.

I said when its in the water the dose cant be controlled. you replied with

I think this is the most ignorant statement I have seen in regards to fluoridation.

Really? Well its only you and those pushing this agenda that think like that. From the day a child is born it will be ingesting fluoride, and it will do so until it dies, and lets not forget that the poison that's put into the water is not the same as naturally occurring fluoride, it contains many contaminants including extremely toxic heavy metals, which it further adds to by stripping lead from the water pipes.
Tell me, if a person has only their tap for their water how do they control the dose? They cant.

You said

There are no instances of people getting hurt/killed with the proper dosage going out into the water supply. Not one.

How do you know that? How CAN you know that? You cant! All you can do is continue to repeat it in the hope you can cause doubt.

You said

If I mixed 1 cup of milk into 10 cups of water and then poured out 8 cups and then 2 cups, the ratio of water:milk would be the same.

Exactly. The baby being smaller gets two cups. Adult gets eight cups. The dosage strength is the same, the baby is receiving the same dosage as an adult. Think about that! A new born being fed carcinogens, and you think thats ok and accuse me of fearmongering!

You said

You have ANY sources (again, credible ones) that show fluoride interacts with any other health issues?

I suggested you watch the vid that I posted. It features a professor who like you, used to be pro fluoridation, until he looked at the data! It features dentists who looked at the data, and best of all it features the guys who actually put this poison into our water supplies. But you think you know better than all of them, you said it yourself when I suggested you watch the vid because you said

Won't matter. No one has ever been able to give me a case/study showing that properly dosed fluoride in water treatment has ever hurt or killed anyone.

I offered you data and you refused to look, Maybe that's why your ignorant to the dangers of fluoride?

superman2012
Of all the people in all the cities in all the world give me one example of a person getting hurt/killed by properly dosed water fluoridation.

I'll wait...
(ps-I've done this before and received zero replies)

There are plenty but you refuse to look.
Oh and by the way, there is no " properly dosed water fluoridation"

reply to post by VoidHawk


Indeed!

Some very good points.

The other thing is that this crap is industrial waste. If lets say hypothetically, a company that makes paints has some chemical waste that they have to get rid of and it ends up in our water supply...even if they were to say it's perfectly healthy and will make your hair shinier, there is no damn way I would accept it even if they found some scientific evidence that it is ok.

Unfortunately, right now here in Sydney, we don't have a choice with fluoride. I live and hope.

reply to post by VoidHawk

who like you, used to be pro fluoridation, until he looked at the data

Actually, I used to be very strongly against water fluoridation because I bought into all the fear they were dishing out for free. I started digging a little deeper and saw there was nothing but fear. They do need to do more testing on this to see the long term effects, but there is zero proof, as of now, that water fluoridation harms anything in anyone.

A new born being fed carcinogens, and you think thats ok and accuse me of fearmongering!

Yes fearmongering with a CAPITOL F. Where is your credible source that water fluoridation is carcinogenic?

There are plenty but you refuse to look.

For over three threads now, you have refused to provide a source for YOUR claim. I don't have to prove that your claim is invalid, you have to prove that which you claim, is valid.
Edit: I have tried to find one in regards to properly dosed water fluoridation. Either Google is censoring them from me, or they don't exist.

Oh and by the way, there is no " properly dosed water fluoridation"

Yes there is. Look up the MAC's in your area. Do a little research and find out what is in your water and what they take out of your water. Why are you so fixated on fluoride? Do you know the other chemicals that are added into your water?

How do you know that? How CAN you know that? You cant! All you can do is continue to repeat it in the hope you can cause doubt.

How can I know that? How CAN I know that? I can because there are zero cases of anyone getting hurt by that. I know that because not A SINGLE website that is anti-fluoride has A SINGLE case on there. You think that wouldn't help their cause?

Like I said.

Show. Me. One.


Edit 2:

The dosage strength is the same, the baby is receiving the same dosage as an adult.

That right there shows me you have zero understanding of this.

Cruff
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

Indeed!

Some very good points.

The other thing is that this crap is industrial waste. If lets say hypothetically, a company that makes paints has some chemical waste that they have to get rid of and it ends up in our water supply...even if they were to say it's perfectly healthy and will make your hair shinier, there is no damn way I would accept it even if they found some scientific evidence that it is ok.

Unfortunately, right now here in Sydney, we don't have a choice with fluoride. I live and hope.

Do a tiny bit of research. It isn't industrial waste. Paint is hardly a good comparison against fluoride.

reply to post by superman2012


www.fortcollinscwa.org... This fluoride is in a better form than is added to the water, it is accepted better by the body. Now adding fluoride to water that already contains fluorides is bad. We do not need that much fluoride, Molybdenum is essential for fluoride uptake, it would be better to supplement with molybdenum....Except that would corrode the water pipes. Here is an article about Molybdenum. I listed an article that is easy to understand for everyone. Molybdenum works to help the body uptake naturally occurring fluoride. www.3fatchicks.com...