Dangerous Philosophy: Something Can Come From Nothing

tsingtao
only 1 person can create something from nothing.

This moment right now is no thing happening.
It appears to be something but it is not actually a thing.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


We surely could make use of a God to create mass and set everything in motion.

But perhaps there initially was several kind of nothingness(es) back then, and that the different kind of nothingness(es) somehow started to react with one another and thus gave birth to something (mass). Perhaps these kind of nothingness(es) was some kind of universal resources, and when they all started to react with one another, mass was created at an enormous speed and kept on doing this until all these nothingness resources eventually was exhausted.

Perhaps this uncontrollable reaction then eventually resulted in a big bang, and because there was only a limited numbers of these nothingness resources , and they all was used, more mass can never come into existence anymore.

That’s perhaps why we can’t explain mass. None of the building blocks that initially created mass no longer exist.

helius
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

We surely could make use of a God to create mass and set everything in motion.

But perhaps there initially was several kind of nothingness(es) back then, and that the different kind of nothingness(es) somehow started to react with one another and thus gave birth to something (mass). Perhaps these kind of nothingness(es) was some kind of universal resources, and when they all started to react with one another, mass was created at an enormous speed and kept on doing this until all these nothingness resources eventually was exhausted.

Perhaps this uncontrollable reaction then eventually resulted in a big bang, and because there was only a limited numbers of these nothingness resources , and they all was used, more mass can never come into existence anymore.

That’s perhaps why we can’t explain mass. None of the building blocks that initially created mass no longer exist.

All you have said implies time.
Forget time and look at what is real - what is here.
There is movement and there is rest now.

Notice that you never move but the environment moves. When you are in a car driving along a road - are you moving or is the scenery moving?

What is seen is moving but what is seeing is not.

helius


Perhaps this uncontrollable reaction then eventually resulted in a big bang, and because there was only a limited numbers of these nothingness resources , and they all was used, more mass can never come into existence anymore.

That’s perhaps why we can’t explain mass. None of the building blocks that initially created mass no longer exist.

The old science model says that the world is 'made' of little building blocks and it is assumed that there is a solid world. But where is 5 minutes ago? How is 5 minutes ago different from a dream - it is gone - never to be seen again - vanished.

All that can be seen is what is here, all that can be heard is what is appearing to be heard now.
Can sound and hearing happen without each other?
The perceiver and the perceived arise as one.

Lingweenie
Well that's the million dollar question;

"How did everything get here?"

Religious people will tell you that everything was created from some sort of deity. Although the common question that will arise is "Well, where did the deity come from?" And if something were to come from nothing, then how could something come from nothing, then turn around and create something from nothing?Claiming god(s) created everything just makes the concept of everything came from nothing even more confusing and complicated, rather than just saying everything simply came from nothing.

It's obvious everything came from nothing, since matter how to come into being somehow. Personally I don't really have a good answer for that. It's one of those things that is very hard to answer. And it may even be impossible to find out. Though I do have to say it is interesting thinking about it. I usually think about that kind of stuff pretty often.

Physicists have a number of theories about the creation of the universe:

1. The universe has always existed and always will exist

2. The universe came about when a super-massive black hole formed at the center of a galaxy in another universe. Our universe is actually the inside of a black hole.

3. Another theory is that two higher-dimensional surfaces (called branes), intersected and formed our universe at some point. All the sub-atomic particles are actually portals into different dimensions.

4. The universe is actually a patchwork of mini-verses all of which popped into existence and expand for a bit. We see this as a constantly expanding universe.

Itisnowagain

helius


Perhaps this uncontrollable reaction then eventually resulted in a big bang, and because there was only a limited numbers of these nothingness resources , and they all was used, more mass can never come into existence anymore.

That’s perhaps why we can’t explain mass. None of the building blocks that initially created mass no longer exist.

The old science model says that the world is 'made' of little building blocks and it is assumed that there is a solid world. But where is 5 minutes ago? How is 5 minutes ago different from a dream - it is gone - never to be seen again - vanished.

All that can be seen is what is here, all that can be heard is what is appearing to be heard now.
Can sound and hearing happen without each other?
The perceiver and the perceived arise as one.

Until you break out your Camera, now it is Forever!

Just Joking!

Peace

Itisnowagain

infoseeker26754

Itisnowagain

infoseeker26754
Man has moved to the top, so far up on the chain he thinks HE'S God!

'Man' is a concept - an idea that God has.

All things appear in God.

Might be True, except one missing factor really. Why would God Create Man just to distroy everything else? I see a Flaw in this way of thinking.

Can there be anything new if the old has not disappeared?
There can be no apparent creation without apparent destruction.
Life cannot move without death - they are hand in hand.

Somehow you missed the point. If We; Humans kill everything that is Living, How would life continue on this Planet? There are dead lifeless planets out there, Only would have to start all over again.

Could have this Planet full of life someday, not living in fear, everybody enjoying life to the fullest! Yet Death comes at a price! So does Life!

The universe came from nothing apparently. For all we know, there was no beginning, something was always there.

It just like A.D in our history timeline, it just a starting point which came from nothing. When really, so much before that time happened, but it was never recorded, or organized enough to do so.

Our science seem to have just started grasping of the unknown, the other side pretty much. Much like parallel symmetry in "Higgs Boson" theory.

Zeros can go lower where its a decimal point, or to where it like seeing more digits on the paycheck.

Nothingness seem to be patience sometimes.

Something is better then nothing.

infoseeker26754

Itisnowagain

infoseeker26754

Itisnowagain

infoseeker26754
Man has moved to the top, so far up on the chain he thinks HE'S God!

'Man' is a concept - an idea that God has.

All things appear in God.

Might be True, except one missing factor really. Why would God Create Man just to distroy everything else? I see a Flaw in this way of thinking.

Can there be anything new if the old has not disappeared?
There can be no apparent creation without apparent destruction.
Life cannot move without death - they are hand in hand.

Somehow you missed the point. If We; Humans kill everything that is Living, How would life continue on this Planet? There are dead lifeless planets out there, Only would have to start all over again.

Could have this Planet full of life someday, not living in fear, everybody enjoying life to the fullest! Yet Death comes at a price! So does Life!

Who knows what the universe has planned for this planet? I highly doubt humans will kill the planet and if they do then that is what they have been put here for. There can be no 'starting over again'. The universe is the one unfolding.

Itisnowagain

infoseeker26754

Itisnowagain

infoseeker26754

Itisnowagain

infoseeker26754
Man has moved to the top, so far up on the chain he thinks HE'S God!

'Man' is a concept - an idea that God has.

All things appear in God.

Might be True, except one missing factor really. Why would God Create Man just to distroy everything else? I see a Flaw in this way of thinking.

Can there be anything new if the old has not disappeared?
There can be no apparent creation without apparent destruction.
Life cannot move without death - they are hand in hand.

Somehow you missed the point. If We; Humans kill everything that is Living, How would life continue on this Planet? There are dead lifeless planets out there, Only would have to start all over again.

Could have this Planet full of life someday, not living in fear, everybody enjoying life to the fullest! Yet Death comes at a price! So does Life!

Who knows what the universe has planned for this planet? I highly doubt humans will kill the planet and if they do then that is what they have been put here for. There can be no 'starting over again'. The universe is the one unfolding.

One may never know. Some DNA left behind until someone comes and finds it someday. Or lands on another Planet carried by a rock, one single cell starting over.

Death and Live work togetter somehow.

reply to post by Wang Tang



quantum physics states that something comes from nothing all the time.

the base layer of all things in the universe is the "quantum foam". its just pure energy at a very high state. its both nothing and something at the same time. like how light is both particle and wave at the same time.

sometimes this energy pops up out of the foam and loses a bit of energy, condensing into a particle. for the most part, these particles are here and gone in stupid small bits of time, but sometimes they linger.

the particles that linger form new, larger particles as they lose energy, forming atoms. from atoms up you know already.

all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration.

I believe that universe is folded. There is a multiverse of galaxies besides our milkyway.
We know that black holes suck matter such as stars and debris, Crushes it into a single point.

Do we know where this matter goes? is it transmutated into anti-matter or teleported to a realm of non-existance.

Energy cannot be destroyed, it can only change form. And mass can only sustain its weight before it implodes from pressure. Everything is made from something, in the physical elements can cause scales of mass to appear intimedating when large or small.

What i believe is that the excess from blackholes is what fills our universe. Like how radiation has half-lifes.

I believe the compounds created from black holes have a very slow decay rate. But since black holes suck up only as much surface area as its eye many stars remain intact for quite some time.

So i believe all that blackness that blocks distant stars and cluters is folded anti-matter.
What i think anyway is where its crushed so tiny that it could even be smaller than an atom? wouldn't that be a mind trip.

Itisnowagain

infoseeker26754
Man has moved to the top, so far up on the chain he thinks HE'S God!

'Man' is a concept - an idea that God has.

All things appear in God.

You have some good ideas Itisnowagain, and it's a workable philosophy, and hard to argue against, but you may note in it a lack of passion, of joy, fun, playfulness, and love.

I too am a bit of a fan of Adi Da Samraj, but he screwed up in a whole host of ways. Ended up taking himself more seriously than others in playing "the avatar".

You're a good student of this frame of reference, which is no frame at all, but of what use is eternal life if we cannot have fun and enjoy each OTHER's company?

It makes sense what you say, but feels dead.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

NewAgeMan

Itisnowagain

infoseeker26754
Man has moved to the top, so far up on the chain he thinks HE'S God!

'Man' is a concept - an idea that God has.

All things appear in God.

You have some good ideas Itisnowagain, and it's a workable philosophy, and hard to argue against, but you may note in it a lack of passion, of joy, fun, playfulness, and love.

Could you tell me what you think is 'workable' with the philosophy I present?

(I would not even call it philosophy.)

i create things out of nothing, like lots of others.

music and foods, but i use tools that others invented. leo fender for one.

but when talking about creation of the universe, one has to go back to the basics.

what are we made of? we can explain why an iphone is made and how it works.

we can even explain how we work, to some extent.

but someone/something, God, is way above our pay grade.

is this the only universe or only the first time it's happened? i doubt it.

Itisnowagain
If one looks inside to find what one is then 'nothing' will be found.
Looking outward there appears to be 'something' to be seen.

Nothing and apparent something arise as one.

edit on 17-11-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

kasdjfksd, askdjfsalkdfj, lsdjflsadkfj! Bang on the money. Words do not do this knowledge any justice, and it's impossible to understand if you cannot see it yourself. The term 'grok' was mentioned, so I had to look it up. This kind of esoteric knowledge must be 'grokked' indeed

mutually arising and co-dependant. This is all a load of utter smack, but sometimes it's good to blab about the unblabable. Just don't go thinking you have an answer that you can explain to anyone else

Please allow me to insert my version of mindless garble into this discussion.

Here it is. When the flame burns completely out, the result = "nothing".

And there you have it. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by Wang Tang


I think your logic is wrong here.....


Firstly, before www.abovetopseceret.com existed, it was a potential domain name, to be assigned to a potential IP adress.

That server was original part of the earth, the metals is contains were mined and transformed.

ATS always existed, since the beginning of time everything that makes up this site has always been, it has just been transformed into what it is now.

Anytime you precieve something coming from nothing YOU are wrong and your definition of NOTHING is incorrect.


Nothing is a matter of perception, if you stuck me in an empty room I may say there is nothing in there, but that statement would be wrong on so many levels.

Space is full of charged particles, it is likely NOTHING has never existed and all that we see has always been in one form or another whether we can detect, preceive, or understand what it was.

reply to post by tsingtao


Do you know how large *a* universe is?

Do you mean whwn this the first cluster of galaxies made?

The span of space is endless and the farther we look beyond our own galaxy the more galaxies we find.

Perhapse galaxies swirl in mass like how individual stars swirl in mass as galaxies.

Or maybe every galaxy is spread out. Eitherway the span of galaxies surely would never end.
There are barriers within inter-galatic space such as cosmic winds.

Does a scale of a star grow bigger or smaller in these other galaxies far far away?
I would imagine many stars would be comparable to our own in the milkyway.

I don't believe that scale of a single object increases the farther you go, As a galaxy will always be a cluster of stars, with planets of various sizes swirling each individual star.

What we define as the universe. Is the expanse of space that holds all of these galatic bodies.



These are only what we define as a handful of galaxies, truely tho there is no specific number we could identify with the exception of everything within our feild of view, beyond that we do not have instruments yet far enough to take deeper photos.

What if you were to reach one of those galaxies, and yet take another deep space picture? Would it end?

Perhapse they call such an expanse infinite, It can span infinitely. But that doesn't mean if you go out that far you won't get lost...

You could continue flying in one direction never to return, but you will always run into something.




I don't believe in 1 big bang i believe in several big bangs. When anti-matter reaches its half-life it exausts the mass back into the universe and creates more galaxies and stars. Since the universe is infinitely large, All matter can continue to be *folded* by being crushed by black holes into anti-matter blackspace, but when it expands the energy within create a whole process of creation and destruction.

There are different forces that work like a black hole but superblackholes are created by the mass of singularities that clumped together as they lost stability from degrating. It may be billions of years before the end of a half life, and these forces are caused when there is displacement, such as when to much mass in one location causes it to collapse on itself. And the recreation of another galaxy through the death of another.

Forces from gravity + number of objects in question + the mass = A big mess
So the inbetween time, which we are in right here you can call it life or living is only a small fraction
compared to the displacement of matter as it transforms and is contained. Clearly there is an overabaundance of *nothingness* as you call it. But as i said i define this nothingness by extremely compressed matter floating around in its non reactive state.

I imagine its an element that would be immune to most chemical and elemental changes.
It would be its decay rate and certain curcumstances that it would be reactable with a physical compound. This is why the sky isn't randomly exploding frequently. If such elements being spat out by black holes were to be reactive it would be catastrophic for all existing life in the universe expanse.

But there by is no ending to the universe, it is infinte in age and creation.
Our galaxy may be new, and composed of previous elements that were once a galaxy before us.

But all matter will half life, not reacting anti-matter/energy and reacting physical matter/energy
a tiny ball of c-4 can show you just how expanding matter into energy works. Just as the Atomic bomb show us, that that empty space is only waiting to react with its physical elemental and energy counterparts. If it was truely nothing as one says is nothing, that there would be no reaction as nothing is present.

But alas, there can never be nothing by that definition because for us yes there may be nothing but for the totality of existance, Just because we cannot react with the seemingly empty space. Does not mean it does not exist.

Now i never watched this video. But it sounds pretty similar.

This is just what i believe is Anti-paradox, Anti-paradox allows the universe to exist without a begining or an end.

reply to post by AnuTyr


Thanks for a better understanding of it all! I do LOVE how you did not consider using Facts in your post!

Even if we took your post and X it by 10. We still would not even have a clue!

Just reminds me to keep my mind open more!

Peace