Dangerous Philosophy: Something Can Come From Nothing

I see Nothing as unlimited potential and the entirety of all that can exist in its pre-energetic state.

Nothing is what determines the appearance or non appearance of energy. It is the baseline internal dialog of potential itself.

Atlantican
I see Nothing as unlimited potential and the entirety of all that can exist in its pre-energetic state.

Nothing is what determines the appearance or non appearance of energy. It is the baseline internal dialog of potential itself.

Nicely said; in another system it's the seed of Shakti
within the emptiness of Shiva. Or Ying within Yang.

KPB

reply to post by infoseeker26754


Beautiful written.

I share your thoughts.

I think i finally got the evolution of it all. At first we have nothing. We even come naked into the world. After some time we manage to get something. After still more time we finally get all we need. This eventually triggers us to get everything we don’t need also. That’s when everything eventually turns into nothingness again, as nothing else means anything anymore. Thus we leave this world lonely and empty handed.

Peace to you too.

reply to post by Wang Tang


It could also be there there is nothing that "is not" and that it's true that something cannot come from nothing, but that therefore instead, must come from everything already always, as a variable of a supreme value whereby the manifest creation represents, not a capricious addition from nothing, but an intelligent and intentional subtraction from everything, as the absolute infinite formless potential out of which the everything begot something in order so that this life experience as it is might be possible by anticipation and arising from an original intent.

Meaning in other words that everything was made by the father (first father of creation) for the son because of the love between the beloved and beloved other without which there is no reason for there to be a particularized something and not nothing at all or the one non-particularized "thing" (absolute oneness) within which there is no possibility of a relationship or a shared mutual experience i.e.: very lonely, no friends.

The occurrence of life then isn't an absurd and meaningless occurrence, but has a reason and a purpose who's sake is love and the opportunity to experience, enjoy and to share, and to be known and to know or be recognized while recognizing the other recognizing us recognizing them (our mutual glorification).

There is no reason therefore to dissolve ourselves in this so-called nothing that is everything, but instead every reason to be accepted and reintegrated (forgiven absolutely) as we are, while also accepting others as we are accepted, loved, recognized, forgiven.

The dissolution of the self and the idea that everything is nothing at all, misses the point of life, imho.

"What does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his own soul?"

This is only reasonable, while at the same time honoring ourselves and one another as we are, and that's fun and enjoyable, creative, playful, humorous - a celebration even a triumph and a glory that we can all bask in and enjoy together.

Koinonia - intimate, mutual, participatory, communion (togetherness). That's what it's all about. It's the only thing that's worthwhile in the end, and it just so happens to be the only way to really have any fun and be happy, and joyful, even passionate and freely and fully self expressed in self acceptance, but not in any sort of egotistical or self-centered or conceited sense.

"If I seek only my own glory then that is no glory at all!"
~ JC


Cheers,

NAM

P.S. This wasn't "preaching" but basic reason and logic in perfect alignment with "Philosophy and Metaphysics", where in dealing with such things if we get it right and "ring the bell" something of value has been shared among us and more fully grokked, and that too is what it's all about, because then we're sharing real substantial "food" for our mutual enjoyment.

In other words - please don't try to sell me nothing or even everything. Let us simply enjoy each other's company and the meal at hand, one bite at a time, together and then there it is, a meal prepared for we ourselves from before the very foundation of the world!

In the beginning there was nothing. And then there was light - the light is seen and it is good.

In deep sleep there is nothing - not even 'you' know you are - 'you' do not appear to exist - no 'things' are appearing to exist.
Then the eyes open and there is light - the light does not 'make' any 'thing'. There is a light image - just one light image - the image is not a thing. The light image may appear as a sound/word (a word seems to separate the one light image into more than one) - a thought appears and then the thought is gone. The thought appears out of nothing and forms a word - the thought disappears back into nothing.


No 'thing' was ever made. 'Thinking' is 'thinging'. It is 'wording' which gives the impression that there are separate 'things'.
Really there is just the one image of light - which is not a thing - it is everything.

If one looks inside to find what one is then 'nothing' will be found.
Looking outward there appears to be 'something' to be seen.

Nothing and apparent something arise as one.

You are made of what everything is made of - so if you look deep within, if you go behind the thoughts and the sensations and go right back to the source of you then you will find what everything is made of.

helius
reply to post by infoseeker26754

 

Beautiful written.

I share your thoughts.

I think i finally got the evolution of it all. At first we have nothing. We even come naked into the world. After some time we manage to get something. After still more time we finally get all we need. This eventually triggers us to get everything we don’t need also. That’s when everything eventually turns into nothingness again, as nothing else means anything anymore. Thus we leave this world lonely and empty handed.

Peace to you too.

Except your last line makes it somehow Sad. In a way it could be, yet one should remember that the Nothingness will never Leave you Lonely. I was speaking on the Human part of the coin. Its like all the relg, science out there. Look at the mess we are in and if all would just stop and think as a group something would get done.

I was raised empty handed, for awhile though why me? What did I do to earn this; as most Humans think, yet as the years go by. I had to change my way of Being. Seeing things when others are told what to see. Most do not want to see things as they are. Since the pain that goes with it becomes overbearing at first.

If every other Living Thing out their can give up its Life; Earth, Plants, cows, dogs, bees, cats, bears, fish, ants, flys, birds, chickens, worms; anything that is Living for us Humans to learn something. Now how one wants to play with this is up to them since really, what Are we Here For? Man has moved to the top, so far up on the chain he thinks HE'S God!

So how long Playing god does it take to realise man is not a God! This is the Doom that awaits Man. If we are so special, are not the other Lifeforms also? Who actually died saying we are God? Who can say you can not Lose your Soul? Most books tell you this; one day a Judgement shall come over Man Himself, yet no one believes this!

When you die, you take what ever Nothingness you have learned to work with in your Life and have to explain what you actually Did with it. Or Nothing more then being reborn with more Nothingness to work with in your next life. If you Used all the Nothingness just for yourself, it becomes less, smaller and not much to work with in later Life's or in the one your living Now.

When you die, you take every experience in your life with you. Nothing more. What you leave behind is the Nothingness people can work with to move on their path. Shame though, if you leave nothing, you have never learned. Most people think it is Things to leave for others, yet what people Need is the Nothingness!

That is what is called advancing all Souls not just your own. Be pleased if you actually gave it your best, even on a bad day! If your on your death bed knowing this, even mans God will not judge you!

Being alone is okay, being sad is okay, having nothing is okay. In the end of it all, just allowing things as they are, helping when you can, is all anyone can really do. Expecting God to come down to Change the World for the better is about the lamest Idea Ever!

Try it! Call 911 and ask for God! Use you inner Cell Phone Oh it Works, yet you still have to deal with your problems first. Then a small Hand here, placed there, things changed. God will not Help the ones who will not try to help themselves in the first place!

Peace To All

infoseeker26754
Man has moved to the top, so far up on the chain he thinks HE'S God!

'Man' is a concept - an idea that God has.

All things appear in God.

This is my picture of the relationship between Somethingness and Nothingness.
From the all-too-neglected Book of Ecclesiastes:

The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.
All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.

The rising and setting of the sun is like our life, rising and shining brightly, and then setting into the horizon into Nothingness when it is over... but then the sun will always rise again, and fall again; it is an endless process.

The winds of fortune blow one way but will eventually blow the opposite way, so do not depend on fortune for your well-being for the winds are constantly changing directions.

We constantly try to fill our sea of knowledge and wealth but the sea is never full... our efforts are futile for in the end everything we have gained will return to the place where they came from, Nothingness.

Allow me to invite everyone to talk as though having concurred on concepts involved in our talking, and observing rules of thinking based on truths and facts.

Otherwise we are just into many words over nothing at all, the literal nothingness which of course we have still to concur on as a concept in our mind; but just the same we can already proceed to talk even though we still have not concurred yet on our to be agreed on concept of nothing as a concept in our mind.

Because as we talk, then in the process we will come to concur on what is paradoxically nothing, and be guided accordingly as to think and talk or not to think and not to talk at all over nothing altogether.


First, can we agree that the first rule of thinking based on truths and facts is that:

There has always existed something even in the imaginable status when there was no time and space and whatever else scientists are examining and talking about.

Please, let me read your reactions to my proposed first rule on thinking grounded on truths and facts.

Just for the present focus on my proposed first rule of thinking and thus also of talking.

Let us abstain from bringing in other matters, just for the present, because we want to be systematic and disciplined with out thinking and talking.



Pachomius

Koinonia


Christianity, properly understood, is like a super-overflowing Buddhism that might make you blush and laugh in our mutual glorification and self-other recognition, or simply put, the enjoyment of one another's company.

It's like a Buddhist party at a Wedding Feast, with everyone letting their hair down and celebrating the living, breathing PERSON in their midst even if, at times, that person turns out to be their very own self, reflected in the eyes of their fellow man.

There must be a Zen joke about this somewhere, will try to find it [leaves room].

Itisnowagain

infoseeker26754
Man has moved to the top, so far up on the chain he thinks HE'S God!

'Man' is a concept - an idea that God has.

All things appear in God.

Might be True, except one missing factor really. Why would God Create Man just to distroy everything else? I see a Flaw in this way of thinking.

So is Time being a concept of Man. Only you do not See Time running around killing all the other lifeforms do you? Not all Man, I mean!

reply to post by infoseeker26754


Eco Doom, or Redemption?

Wang Tang
3) Before the website www.abovetopsecret.com was taken, it was nothing. Nothing existed in its place. When this website was founded, it became something. Therefore, something came from nothing.

This website did not come from nothing. It was designed and built, and then launched onto the Internet by people. I think that what you're trying to describe is the fact that something can emerge to take the place of an absence of something (nothing), but that's not the same thing as logically proving that something came from nothing. Something physical can emerge from a true and literal absence of physical existence, but the key term here is physical. That said, matter is only one form of physical existence, so there's actually a bit of wiggle room to work with here before you start getting into logical roundabouts and tortuous semantics.

Pachomius

First, can we agree that the first rule of thinking based on truths and facts is that:

There has always existed something even in the imaginable status when there was no time and space and whatever else scientists are examining and talking about.

Please, let me read your reactions to my proposed first rule on thinking grounded on truths and facts.

Pachomius

No

There's the logical problem of infinite regression when you embrace that notion. It can't be resolved without sticking a god in there somewhere (which launches a whole closet-full of fallacies of its own).

Nope. That rule immediately shunts any discussion that allows it into the confines of human imagination and strands it there.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I'm Mad! Yet somehow my special room keeps me sane! Yet one must go outside and enjoy the play!

I remember at the age of 10, my mother took me to see one of them DR'S! Was out in 5 mins! So what seems to be your problem? Funny look and said I have none worth discussing. My mother has the problems really. May I go to school now? Although I was already walking towards the door!

Experiencing something you can not put into words has been around since I was 0. Being told otherwise that I have problems, Hello, don't we all? Its not a problem unless you actually call it one!

Alot of Good People out there put away because somehow they have the problem in the first place. Yet somehow I really do not thing the Gov would let this go to waste. When your IQ is over 130, you get a different view of things and the world as it is! Some could learn to handle the info if allowed given time.

As for the normal ones, most are actually losing their IQ's. List many ways this is done, it started with abortions, then Pills and now their is a pill even in the water! Was told long ago by an old woman that when it is time for man to grow another Einstine, Christ, Poffit shall be born! Since abortions, just think how many have been lost to just this!

Have to wonder really!

NorEaster

This website did not come from nothing. It was designed and built, and then launched onto the Internet by people. I think that what you're trying to describe is the fact that something can emerge to take the place of an absence of something (nothing), but that's not the same thing as logically proving that something came from nothing. Something physical can emerge from a true and literal absence of physical existence, but the key term here is physical. That said, matter is only one form of physical existence, so there's actually a bit of wiggle room to work with here before you start getting into logical roundabouts and tortuous semantics.

You are absolutely right. It is more appropriate in this case to say something can take the place of nothing. This would indicate a fixed balance between something and nothing in our world, because wherever a something takes the place of nothingness, nothingness takes the place of where this something used to be. However, this seems to go against our current theory of the expanding universe which indicates that "something" is constantly overtaking Nothingness.

Someone mentioned earlier that before this website existed, the website existed in the form of an idea. However, in the form of an idea the website did not physically exist, only the potential existed. On the other hand you seem to indicate that the website existed in terms of its physical components that would come together to take the place of nothingness. What do you think? Did the website exist only in terms of its separate physical components, only the idea behind the website, or both?

infoseeker26754

Itisnowagain

infoseeker26754
Man has moved to the top, so far up on the chain he thinks HE'S God!

'Man' is a concept - an idea that God has.

All things appear in God.

Might be True, except one missing factor really. Why would God Create Man just to distroy everything else? I see a Flaw in this way of thinking.

Can there be anything new if the old has not disappeared?
There can be no apparent creation without apparent destruction.
Life cannot move without death - they are hand in hand.

politicians do it all the time.

lol!

but this is not the time or thread for that, one.

only 1 person can create something from nothing.