Legalizing illegal immigrants is the solution to Obamacare

Surprised to say but this hadn't really occurred to me before. Now seeing it put into words it makes perfect sense. This amnesty push has a third leg so to speak. 1) Increase the democrat voting block 2) flood the labor market with cheap workers and 3) fund obamacare. It makes perfect sense.

Legalizing illegal immigrants is the solution to Obamacare: Democrat

Rep. Jared Polis said Friday the key problem with health care right now is that illegal immigrants aren’t included in Obamacare, and said part of the solution is to pass a bill granting them citizenship rights.

The House is debating a GOP-written bill that would allow Americans to keep their health plans that have been canceled under Obamacare, but Mr. Polis, a Colorado Democrat, said the chamber should instead be looking at ways to make sure everyone in the country is covered by the Affordable Care Act — including illegal immigrants.

I've got to say, these guys are slick. This has probably been part of the plan from the beginning. It certainly helps explain why the great push for amnesty for illegals.

The following explains some of the mental gymnastics behind the amnesty - obamacare thinking.

But Mr. Polis said leaving them outside of the health mandate means that they end up using emergency care, but don’t end up paying their own bills — leaving the rest of the country to pick up those costs.

He said the solution is to pass House Democrats’ bill, which would grant a long-term pathway to citizenship for most illegal immigrants. The legislation is known by its bill number, House Res. 15

“If we can pass HR, 15 people who are here illegally will have to get insurance on their own instead of forcing Americans to pay for their insurance,” Mr. Polis said.

Really? People who are already here by breaking our laws are going to concern themselves with following a new insurance laws? I don't think so.

Additionally one has to wonder, since admittedly these illegals are using our facilities and burdening the citizens why they don't just fix the real problem and send illegals back to their home countries? Let them apply for citizenship like legal immigrants do and follow our laws to begin with.

let me ask you....if you were an American citizen living in france, would you expect the French taxpayers to pick up your healthcare tab, or would you be required to buy your own insurance for that healthcare?....this is what the argument is about.

reply to post by Bassago


What a bunch of garbage. This is insane...

I have no problem with people coming to this coubtry legally, but the ones who are here illegally, need to go.

How would it work if a bunch of us illegaly migrated to another country? I bet the laws woukd be upheld and we wouldn't be given citizenship.

But hey, there are plenty of jobs available, right? So yes, great idea, lets legalize the illegals because they are good for paying for insurance and working in one of our abundant jobs... /sarcasm.

jimmyx
let me ask you....if you were an American citizen living in france, would you expect the French taxpayers to pick up your healthcare tab, or would you be required to buy your own insurance for that healthcare?....this is what the argument is about.

Let me ask you... are you proposing an american citizen in france is there legally, or illegaly?

jimmyx
let me ask you....if you were an American citizen living in france, would you expect the French taxpayers to pick up your healthcare tab, or would you be required to buy your own insurance for that healthcare?....this is what the argument is about.

If I was illegally in France I'd expect them to arrest and deport me.

American citizen living in france

reply to post by jimmyx


If they were living in France I think their visa would of ran out, and the Key is an "American Citizen", besides in European countries they have a different way with dealing with this.

Why do most of the Illegals coming to America, hoping to find a job and medical care and to have an anchored baby.

Its a problem that no one want to address because they are afraid that they will hurt some ones feelings, to bad ours are hurt all the time because of all the BS that Washington is trying to cram down our throats, they let us up long enough for air and do something else just to send us back down.

What about people who have literally payed over $20,000 USD in legal fees and rigamarole and waited over 4 years to become a US citizen? They have high technical skills the US can use, yet they have to fight tooth and nail to get in. Whereas if your skill set is menial, you can just hop a fence. What a smack in the face.

Why not replace unskilled illegal labor with robots? That's what Japan and Germany did in the early 90s.

You mean theres money in it for the Insurance Bankers,,I thought it was all about helping poor people...boy was I sucker...

reply to post by Bassago


1986 - Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) granted amnesty to 3 million illegal immigrants
1990 - Immigration Act of 1990 increased the number of legal immigrants and visas
1996 - IIRAIRA - sets waiting time before applying for citizenship after deportation, makes deportation easier
2001 - DREAM Act first introduced by Republicans Dick Durbing & Orrin Hatch in Senate and then later in the house by Democrat, Rep Luis Gutiérrez
2005 - Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act proposed by John McCain and Ted Kennedy (fails)
2005 - Border Protection, Anti-terrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005 (passed by House)
2005 - REAL ID Act of 2005 change ID standards, provisions for beefing up barriers at borders
2006 - Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (R-PA) Sen. Arlen Specter (passed by Senate)
2007 - DREAM Act re-introduced by Republicans Dick Durbin, Charles Hagel and Richard Lugar
2009 - DREAM Act re-introduced a group of 6 Democrats, 2 Republicans, and 1 independent
2011 - DREAM Act re-introduced by Harry Reid. This time John McCain, Lindsey Graham and other Republicans didn't support it.

That's just a short list. In any given year immigration reform is a hot button topic that politicians use to garner votes from various groups. Notice how the DREAM Act in particular went from being a Republican proposal to a bipartisan proposal before finally became a Democratic proposal.

Makes you wonder if either side really cares about immigration beyond pandering for votes. Hard to believe that it has anything to do with the PPACA unless of course you're one of those people who sees everything as revolving around Obamacare.

Bassago
2) flood the labor market with cheap workers

Flooding the market with cheap workers = less expendable income for the people already here which ='s poor Legal and Illegal people, working or not, which ='s MORE people on Medicaid which = more money from the backs of the middle income (what's left). Besides the drain on all the other resources in this country.


This is a LOSE LOSE situation!

reply to post by theantediluvian

Makes you wonder if either side really cares about immigration beyond pandering for votes.

That's pretty much what I'm seeing here. Then there's also the push by big corporations like Walmart for cheap labor.

The one issue that doesn't get much attention is the problem with getting skilled labor for high tech companies and I've seen this first hand. It's a problem with too much emotion being handled by self serving politicians and (some) companies with very greedy agendas.

TheMistro81

jimmyx
let me ask you....if you were an American citizen living in france, would you expect the French taxpayers to pick up your healthcare tab, or would you be required to buy your own insurance for that healthcare?....this is what the argument is about.

Let me ask you... are you proposing an american citizen in france is there legally, or illegaly?

if you were living and working there illegally, and you got so sick you needed hospitalization...who would pay?

reply to post by jimmyx

if you were living and working there illegally, and you got so sick you needed hospitalization...who would pay?

Obviously the legal citizens of that country would get stuck with the bill. At which point after the illegal was treated he/she should be arrested, deported and sent a bill.

Heck for that matter send the bill to the appropriate countries embassy and demand payment. If they don't pay take them to court like was done with Venezuela to recoup damages. Imagine the money taxpayer could get back if it could be reclaimed.

reply to post by Bassago


So we pass another 3 to 4000 page immigrant law that no one has read or can explain so we can see what's in it just to get another law that was passed that no one read to see what was in it to work.

Sounds to me like Colorado has more recall work to do.

reply to post by Bassago


In regards to cheap workers, you just reminded me that the media has recently been buzzing about raising the minimum wage. I think if amnesty is granted and the minimum wage increased, then many of the low-skilled immigrants may soon find themselves priced out of a job. Not to mention a lot of regular citizens in the low-skilled worker demographic.

reply to post by theantediluvian


Not only that people can't seem to agree on what problems illegals are actually causing. always crying the same mantras.

THEYRE TAKING OUR JOBS---------THEYRE LIVING OFF OUR GOVERNMENT
Which is it are they working or are they living off the government?

People are so full of crap they're taking jobs away from Americans. Please. Like anyone is fighting for that job washing dishes at the olive garden.

Or the American who hires illegals to work all day in the dirt and sun building fences or something for minimum wage.

reply to post by alphaether


Great point. The problem with combining a minimum wage and legalizing a large number of low-skill illegal immigrants is exactly that. I have a BS in economics and a masters in finance, doing that is a recipe for huge economic problems.

I've said this before in more detail in other threads, but I'll say it briefly here because I think it's germane. The two political ideologies of the democrats and republicans have both slowly evolved, either deliberately, or accidentally, into a perfectly wrong blend of ideas. On almost every major issue republicans take a stand on, they contradict that stance by taking the opposite stance on a fundamentally identical but superficially different scenario. The democrats do it just as much if not more. Both sides have good points, but on those good points they constantly contradict themselves.

Three examples.

Republicans promote "capitalism" and a "laissez-faire" economy. But then either turn a blind eye to or actively promote the integration of corporate peoples into sectors of government. To compound this they also tend to support corporate lobbying of government. A government mandated economy through corporate lobbying or infiltration is by definition no longer capitalism. Perfectly the wrong blend and fails a logic test.

Democrat Ideology: Claim that homosexual citizens ought to have the same civil rights as straight citizens, in other words are for everyone having the same rights and access. However, they are for affirmative action, in other words are against everyone having the same rights and access. Perfectly the wrong blend and fails a logic test.

Democrats and Republicans debate maternal choice for abortion the death penalty respectively. They are both identical from an ethical (moral being subjective) perspective. Both are instances where the state sanctions murder given that a very specific set of criteria are met. Either it's okay for the state to sanction murder, or it isn't. The question as to whether killing someone on death row or killing a cluster of embryonic cells is murder becomes moot. Either the state has the authority to permit it, or it doesn't.

This double speak and cognitive dissonance is perfectly exemplified by your post regarding the minimum wage and legalizing illegals.

I usually agree with your assessments Bassago but not on this one.
Look at the premise here: Blackmailing the public in to accepting the dream act in order to make them start paying their way when it comes to healthcare. That's the bottom line, the public knows it and would absolutely explode if they tried to sneak an amnesty bill by on a late night vote.
Even sheep have their limits and this is it.
Unless, that situation were somehow part of their strategic planning?
You can never ask too many questions about your government.

reply to post by SasquatchHunter


The thing about it is that they actually can do both. In taking jobs, they've effectively priced out a large segment of the population from low-skill jobs. That means more teenagers and blue collars without employment, this has a negative side effect of increasing crime. In living off of the government, since they are illegal, they quite literally use tax payer money in sending their children to public schools, using hospitals, using police services, anything public funded. And since they are illegal, they aren't obliged to pay taxes, and as a result really do live off of the government without contributing.

It has happened multiple times around the world in the near and far history. It typically cripples the economy over time, and unless sweeping action is taking to deal with it, can shatter the economy and society permanently.

Greece is a good example. However, their problem wasn't started by illegals, although they have an illegal problem now. To put it quickly, too small of a population was paying for too large of a population. The people who worked and owned businesses literally couldn't support the people who didn't anymore. In Greece, it was one legal segment of the population unable to support another legal segment of the population. Look at the financial hell that country is in right now. To compound it, the EU immigration laws have flooded Greece with a ton of amnesty seekers and illegals looking for a "better place". There's no more to take. As a result, you've now got a political party resembling national socialism (Nazi) polling in first place and a desire to kick out anyone who isn't overtly greek. It looks a LOT like the fall of the Wiemar republic in Germany. People didn't learn then and they didn't learn now, and so it is repeating.

reply to post by Galvatron


Your post deserves it's own thread.
Everybody here needs to read what you wrote there.
Sorry for the OT