When was the Fall of Satan?

When did satan fall? was it before or after the creation of mankind?
What does the Apochryphic texts say about Satan?
(ive never read any apochryphic texts.)

In the book of revelation satan known as the devil and serpent is cast down to earth.
But is this a vision of the future that st. john had recorded and it hasnt happened yet,
or was the war in heaven in ancient past?

In Job, Satan still has access to the throne room of God, and is seen to be reasoning with him in debate.

Everything else depends on what form your Eschatology takes.

Some view revelations as an allegorical account of the persecution of christians during Roman times, Other that its a prophecy of the future.

So it really depends what your view of theology is, and who you follows interpretation of Revelations and the bible as a whole.

Classic view is Revelations is the future "end times" but that gets clouded due to replacement theology which took place in the early 1900's, in which the Church took the interpretation that they where israel. (a view still held by some christian sects)

So getting a simple answer is not as easy as it would seem on that whole topic.

As to the Apocryphal books, May I suggest the Book of Enoch for a very interesting take on the "Fall" of the angels in general.

I don't think Satan is actually against god, I think he is still his servant. We were led to believe he is bad because he tests the people to judge their worthiness. He tempts us. I think he is still is on good terms with god.

How would god know if we were good if someone wasn't testing to see if we were? Of course people blamed Satan when they took his bait. Now there may actually be another entity that is pure evil, but I do not think it is Satan.

The devil we own. It is not really a being I think but a trait of man. A deceiver, a trickster, a swindler. This is different than a thief. This is a person who enjoys the game more than the treasures. It is like the fox or the coyote and maybe even the crow. cunningness and dishonesty. It is a kind of person, these people all think similarly and their kind forms an entity that I suppose you could call a being.

Lucifer I do not know much about. He may be the evil one but I am not sure. Demons are crabby ones, possibly old spirits that have grudges against god and people.

I could be wrong. I do not fear Satan, even though I do not desire to do evil I still respect his test. It teaches me to be strong and keeps me aimed towards being a good person. I think if you flunk his test god destroys you.

I could have the names of these beings mixed up, with the changes in words over the thousands of years it is hard to know for sure who is who from the writings. I don't even know if the people writing these old writings were aware that there was a difference.

reply to post by rickymouse


Im no bible scholar, i havent even read the full book....but i jave to pull you up on this part

How would god know if we were good if someone wasn't testing to see if we were?

He is god, the all knowing creator of everything, the guy who watches over you 24/7, why would he need someone to test you...surely, he should know???

Thats all i wanted to add, this isnt my cup of tea and i dont want to derail the thread.

Pretty recent. 1914.

The revelations thing is a puzzler if you take the bible as prophecy.

In revelations 12, Satan is cast out in a vision of the future, in the form of a dragon, and falls to Earth to participate in the end of the world.

In Isaiah though, someone who sounds a lot like the devil, the son of the dawn, has already been cast down to someplace called Sheol- basically the pit or the grave- which sounds like an afterlife concept the Jews probably picked up in Babylon, but what do I know.

And in revelations, when a third of the stars fall down for the first time (it happens again when the dragon drags them down- it may be two references to the same event) one of the "fallen stars" has a key and unlocks a bottomless pit, out of which comes Apolyon- very solar sounding- probably the son of the dawn who was locked in a pit I'd say.

So, my not exactly a theologian take would be that we've got multiple devil figures at work in these prophecies who have been simplified into one devil for mass consumption, these different devils are all already outcast, but some are apparently in a pit and some are apparently still "above" waiting to be cast down.

reply to post by Belcastro

The "fall" of Satan is found twice in the New Testament, in Luke ch10 and Revelation ch13.
In both cases, i believe it is talking about loss of power.

In Luke ch10, Jesus sends out the disciples to preach, and when they come back he tells them "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven"- Luke ch10 v18
The implication is that Satan was "falling" while they were preaching and because they were preaching. it was a loss of power.

In Revelation ch12 Satan is "thrown down" from heaven, and the real key to understanding the event is the explanation given by the "loud voice" from heaven;
"They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony".
In other words, the power of Satan has been brought down by the death of Jesus on the cross ("the blood of the Lamb") and by the gospel message ("the word of their testimony").
The point is that forgiveness of sin has the effect of destroying his hold on sinners, which is the basis of his power.
So he "falls".

So the answer to your question is that the fall of Satan occurred when Jesus was teaching on earth and when he died on the cross.

PS I've done a thread on Revelation ch12 called "Satan fell from heaven", which deals with this very question.

Satan never fell.
At least, not on Earth.

Just look at the state mankind have been for thousand of years, and you will come to understand Satan has always lead us on this planet. So much evil everywhere.

Now, it's up to us to deliver ourselves from his chaos.

reply to post by Belcastro


The Red Dragon - Lucifer Azazel is not the most powerful Satan. They are ANGEL that disagree with other angels.

The Black Dragon is the true Satan and he never "fell" since he was never in heaven /light.

my understanding is that satan fell before the creation of earth. Jesus says "I saw..." in past tense, that it already happened, as mentioned in Isaiah. in Job, satan is pictured as having access to heaven; in fact his 'home' is earth (Jesus refers to him as 'the prince of this world' when talking to Peter). in Revelation satan attempts to force his way into heaven, presumably to take over, and is cast down so that he can't go back and forth any more (as in Job). forced to remain on earth, instead of having some freedom to travel, he takes it out on humanity.

reply to post by Belcastro


Satan goes between Earth and Heaven for now. He has always had access to Heaven and the throne of God. Satan is the "Accuser" and he goes before God and accuses believers. Think of Heaven as a courtroom with God the Father being the Judge, Satan is the Prosecutor and Jesus Christ is the defense attorney. Stupid analogy, but it gets the point across. You see in Job 1 where Satan is in Heaven standing before the throne and he convinces God to let him destroy Job's life.

Job 1:6-7(KJV)

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

and we see in 1 Peter 5:8(KJV) where Satan roams the Earth...

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Satan will soon be cast out of Heaven for good right at the start of the Tribulation. We see this in Revelation 12:7-12(KJV)

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Contrary to popular belief, Satan has never been to Hell, but he will be cast into the lake of fire in the end, after the millennial Reign of Christ here on Earth... after the final battle.

Revelation 20:10(KJV)

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Belcastro
When did satan fall? was it before or after the creation of mankind?
What does the Apochryphic texts say about Satan?
(ive never read any apochryphic texts.)

In the book of revelation satan known as the devil and serpent is cast down to earth.
But is this a vision of the future that st. john had recorded and it hasnt happened yet,
or was the war in heaven in ancient past?

It must have been just after God created Man and all living things.

Satan was asked to bow Down to Gods creation. But denied. This must have happened after genesis Chapter 1 and 2.

Satan comes into the Picture in Genesis Chapter 3. After everything is created.

reply to post by Belcastro


What if "satan" never fell at all... was never "cast out of heaven" as the good book says...

Perhaps he was appointed to a position... and he was sent to earth, as others have been

Akragon
reply to post by Belcastro

 

What if "satan" never fell at all... was never "cast out of heaven" as the good book says...

Perhaps he was appointed to a position... and he was sent to earth, as others have been

edit on 8-11-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Yup, lucifer is just an angel of Yahweh. Yahweh. Sends destruction creating peace and chaos.

arpgme

Akragon
reply to post by Belcastro

 

What if "satan" never fell at all... was never "cast out of heaven" as the good book says...

Perhaps he was appointed to a position... and he was sent to earth, as others have been

edit on 8-11-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Yup, lucifer is just an angel of Yahweh. Yahweh. Sends destruction creating peace and chaos.

Honestly I would trust satan over this YHWH character...

Just my opinion though... for what its worth

Akragon
reply to post by Belcastro

 

What if "satan" never fell at all... was never "cast out of heaven" as the good book says...

Perhaps he was appointed to a position... and he was sent to earth, as others have been

edit on 8-11-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Yup, lucifer is just an angel of Yahweh.

when does the bible say god invented gravity again?
has to have been after that...
just sayin

reply to post by rickymouse


luved it all up too this point "I think if you flunk his test god destroys you."

no we just get put back into the "everlasting fire ",,,that purifies, or refines our ass,, a little more.

or hell,,as its commonly know,, "lie too Mom, ,,yes/no..ummmmm",,did it ever work?
or were they "more in tune,,,,ooooooo"?? always wondered,, maybe i had a tell.
whack.

when was the war of 1812 fought...
im going to guess the fall of satan was...
in...the...fall

reply to post by Danbones


lest we forget

"Jesus says, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. ... Aramaic, Jesus would have said, essentially, “I saw Satan as Barack Obama."

u know there could be the False Prophet,,,ie radical islam,,
thats two outta 3
1.anti-christ
2.False prophet,,
3.?