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2WitnessesArrived
Yes, I also believe I have noticed it also. Why is Christianity so attacked other than muslims, Buddhist, or any other religion on this site, we Christians must be doing something right . Keep up the work Christians our Lord will not let us down.
wildtimes
reply to post by Fraudfinder
wildtimes
reply to post by Fraudfinder
For someone who is not Christian but hangs out in these type of forums/threads that deal with the Christian faith and/or who starts threads about Christianity but yet they are not a Christian makes one to think they must have an agenda. It makes no sense why someone would start a thread or make a negative post concerning Christianity when they hate the Christian beliefs? AND frequently it is the same people who scream: “Stop pushing religion down my throat” but yet these same people hang around these religious forums and/or start a religious thread.
Yes, we have an agenda. To expose the truth of how religions are control tools, when and if they are.
MANY of us come here to try to wrap our heads around ALL of the various styles, dogmas, worldviews, thought patterns, and education 'religious' people have received.
You are correct in that this is NOT the "Christianty is Great" forum!! It is for discussion of ALL religiosity, faiths, and theology. As others have said, it's a HUGE endeavor to uncover all of the stuff that has been born from religion.
I COME HERE (and assume I'm probably one of those who YOU are accusing/assessing here) to learn, and to share what I HAVE LEARNED. Your 'reasons' as suggested below are ridiculous, and utterly biased.
If someone has such beliefs why even read the thread at all? Why not find another thread or better yet stop coming to these religious forums? Why is that? I can think of a few reasons why:
1. To receive ATS recognition so they get their with stars, flags etc... (how pathetic).
2. These people love to argue..... not debate. They like stirring the fire so it burns hotter. People who hate Christians and attempt to post their hateful remarks against Christ and those who chose to follow Christ.
3. A demonic attempt to influence Christians to rethink their beliefs and to walk away from their faith.
Those are "troll" reasons. Those of us who come here daily, make thoughtful, provocative threads based on FACTS, are not being "hateful." We ARE trying to "destroy" IGNORANCE.
You want a debate? LET'S GO!:
1) for flags and stars? PLEASE. ATS is about revealing where ignorance reigns, and how to overcome it. Those of us who protest Christianity also protest OTHER RELIGIONS, for very good, sound reasons - such as children being taught they are sinners and deserve hell. From an emotional perspective THIS IS ABUSE. Flags and stars indeed. (Your impotence is showing.)
2) don't debate, but argue? to stir the fire hotter? The FIRE SHOULD BE HOT, because far, far too many so-called "Christians" don't have the SLIGHTEST broadness of education and background to actually UNDERSTAND their "faith". IIRC, all of the sages (including Jesus) said that it is appropriate to ask questions. BLIND FAITH IS NOT. If you can't take the heat, GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN. (Your thin skin is showing.)
3) LOLOLOL!!! Yeah, demonic influences. To try to help people extract themselves from the lies, false hopes, shame and self-loathing that is being pushed down their throats, or that they have WILLINGLY ADOPTED. (Your ignorance is showing.)
I am not saying ATS is anti-Christ website just many of its members are. So to all Christians let this be a warning to you when visiting these religious forums at ATS. If you are new to the Christian faith and your faith in the Christian religion is not 100% secure I would recommend you stay away from these religious forums. They do not enlighten you but bring division and lies in their statements.
ALL OF THIS ABOVE is hogwash, as applied to my threads, posts, and approach. Any person who decides to adopt a faith later in life had BETTER have done their homework before making that choice, lest they be deceived, psychologicallt manipulated, hurt, and misled by predator preachers (of ANY faith).
PREDATOR PREACHERS are the problem. Those of us who see past their predatory preaching, and happen to KNOW that they are skewing actual scripture - whether they are Muslim preachers, Protestant preachers in skinny jeans, or Priests wearing frocks - are obligated to speak up!
My aim is to give "Christians" 'the rest of the story'. Allowing someone to enter a trap and saying nothing to stop them when you KNOW what lies within, is letting down your fellow man.
The fact is that MOST CHRISTIAN CHURCHES have skewed the original, universal teachings of Jesus, which were simply to live by the Golden Rule.
Threatening people with hell-fire, telling them they were born sinners and are unworthy of the 'grace' of salvation they were given ("you don't really deserve it and never will"; or, conversely, "the only way to gain it is by saying a certain phrase, recruiting others, tithing, and self-loathing until the day you die") is ABUSIVE. Having people praying for "End Times" lends itself to VIOLENCE, or apathy against VIOLENCE - which is everyone's responsibility to protest.
Being human is NOT A CURSE. It is A GIFT, meant to be explored and examined by the living, into all corners, free of fear and shame.
Having said that, "SHAME ON YOU" for telling people to stay out of those corners.
To new Christians: Yes, you will find challenges to your faith here. If you are too fragile to deal with those challenges, definitely find another forum. HERE IS NOT where you will find unflagging support for your 'beliefs'. HERE IS WHERE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE CHALLENGED, deconstructed, examined, and discussed.
Demons, indeed.
*facepalm*
Now, if you'll excuse me, I was about to make a thread about how Shariah law has been skewed into a tool for oppression. From an essay written by a Muslim leader. I would suggest evangelical Christians have a look at it. THEN, I'm preparing one for addressing how Western Christians are IGNORING what's going on in the Middle East TO THEIR OWN CHRISTIAN BRETHREN - in order to "hasten" the fantasy "End Times."
edit on 11/7/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)
Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
1 Timothy 2:1-2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
You have proven my point. Thank you.
WarminIndy
reply to post by Fraudfinder
FraudFinder
I mentioned the same thing also, but it's like everywhere there is a forum or comment section. Yahoo comments, youtube comments, you name it, it's out there. People are exercising their freedom of speech, of which neither you nor I can say they can't. We, in essence, must defend their right to non-belief as Christians who live in American. Render unto Caesar doesn't just mean money, and Caesar created this Constitution we live under. So, we have to render unto Caesar. What we can do, however, is show the truths found in Christianity.
Romans 13
Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
As much as we might disagree with what they say, we can't think they have no right to do it if our prevailing law from the higher powers, ordained by God, says they can.
But from their perspective, they don't understand Christianity with the multiplicity of doctrines and the duplicity of action and faith, in other words, they see that some Christians don't follow their faith. Do we have a right to speak out against other system that are dangerous? Absolutely we are, and we must if people are endangered within a system, but since they have higher powers they are subject under, then we can only share with them about our Lord Jesus Christ.
I am a Christian, but ATS is a microcosm of society at large, there are Christians on here representing every denomination and creed. I have to apologize to FlyersFan, because I didn't know she was a Christian before sharing with us she used to be a conservative Catholic. To her, I apologize.
But as they see the multiplicity of doctrines and creeds, they wonder and ask which is the right one to follow, and when the very fundamental sets of Christian doctrines are debated even among Christians, then we should get our heads on straight first before telling other people how to think.
Here's what Paul also says in
1 Timothy 2:1-2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
What is our duty as Christians in the world and ATS? All we can do is pray for them. As much as a I have a moral and legal duty as a Christian to defend their rights of freedom of speech, I do think it's fair for them to defend our right of freedom of religious expression.
People with religion troll those without it, hoping for reassurance in their own beliefs.
People without religion troll those with it, hoping for reassureance in their own beliefs.
It's pure insecurity on both parts.
rickymouse
Very good thread. I don't believe much in the necessity of organized religion in my life but I respect the need of others to believe in their religion. I believe in god but don't believe you need to go to church to believe in god. We are talking about the same god here, the god that was present in Jesus.
I do not fear god, I respect him. I try to be honest and truthful and do not like to kill unless I have to. I do not believe I am superior nor inferior to any other people here on earth. We are all on the same ship sailing through space. I have a great respect for god and to the planet that makes life possible. I think the planet is a living being comprised of the consciousness of all that lives on it. We are just cells of this living consciousness of the earth, and the earth is a cell of the divine consciousness.
I have a lot of religious friends. I talk about other things than religion with them because of the individual differences in everyone's beliefs. That does not mean I do not respect their beliefs as part of their lives. Much of the good in our society is structured off the good that comes from Christianity. I would rather be alive today with my beliefs than three hundred years ago when a person was forced to have to believe in a religion. This forcing does still exist today in some areas of the world.
So that is about all I can tell you. Your perception is right OP. If people do not want to hear about god or religion, they should stay out of the places that it is found.
wildtimes
reply to post by Fraudfinder
You have proven my point. Thank you.
No, I have presented a debate and challenged your 'assessment' of why people are here. YOU are the one running away. Lame.
Very lame.
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent.
A trap that leads you straight to hell.
You can NOT fool God, his son or the Holy Spirit.
Of course we are humans but many who say they are looking for answers are not doing it or they are just moving their lips spilling out hot air. Many don't want to know the truth and some try it for a week or two and then give up and say "Well I tried and it does not work; so that is proof there is no God." This is exactly what Satan wants you to do! It is a trap.
WarminIndy
wildtimes
reply to post by Fraudfinder
You have proven my point. Thank you.
No, I have presented a debate and challenged your 'assessment' of why people are here. YOU are the one running away. Lame.
Very lame.
To the OP, Wildtimes and I are an example of head-butting when it comes to religion. But it takes more than just a bull dog stance, as John Calvin took, our primary teacher is Jesus Christ, and what would Jesus say to them? He would say, if you do this in my name, it better be the right thing to do. We can't take His name lightly and we can't just do our own thing, then say it is in His name.
This is a John Calvin quote
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent.
Are they attacking Jesus, or are they attacking Christians that they don't perceive as living up to Christianity?
John Calvin was a coward, I will say that right now, because he approved the burning at the stake of Michael Servetus. He approved the burning of someone who disagreed with him. And that's not Christian-like.
If we we are the light of the world, but our light is neon and hung over a spiritual brothel, then what light are they seeing from us? To some people, Christianity has become a red light district...sorry to say, but yes. And then there are those with Black light, showing glow in the dark philosophies...
So what light is coming from us?
To Wildtimes
As we have debated, discussed, "argued", and given words of what we both perceive as truth, I do see your point. You don't want to follow a light that would lead you in a wrong direction. I respect that because I understand that.
I have to accept that you have life experiences that were individual to you and framed your worldview. I do understand that it is not Jesus you are attacking, it is the duplicity of Christianity. You are against people who say one thing and do another, in the name of their faith.
I understand it completely.
InhaleExhale
reply to post by Fraudfinder
A trap that leads you straight to hell.
so what was it like?
How did you escape?
You can NOT fool God, his son or the Holy Spirit.
so why are you trying?
Of course we are humans but many who say they are looking for answers are not doing it or they are just moving their lips spilling out hot air. Many don't want to know the truth and some try it for a week or two and then give up and say "Well I tried and it does not work; so that is proof there is no God." This is exactly what Satan wants you to do! It is a trap.
Satan wants you be as simple as possible like you have just been posting this garbage of a paragraph.
You are saying many are lying when they open their mouths yet not show one example because if you have any they wouldn't be solid and would be shown to be only your assumption as you cannot know what anothers intentions are unless they confined to you what that is, you state people say they are looking for the truth but its not what they are actually doing they are actually blowing hot air.
I feel a warm breeze reading your words like you might feel when others say they looking for truth.
Very Christian of you to make such judgements, I bet Jesus would be proud to have you in his flock
I ask all Christians to pray for Wildtimes and to ask God through Jesus name to send the Holy Spirit to him. For once he stands in front of God and sees with his own eyes is when he will understand. In Jesus name. AMEN
Fraudfinder
WarminIndy
wildtimes
reply to post by Fraudfinder
You have proven my point. Thank you.
No, I have presented a debate and challenged your 'assessment' of why people are here. YOU are the one running away. Lame.
Very lame.
To the OP, Wildtimes and I are an example of head-butting when it comes to religion. But it takes more than just a bull dog stance, as John Calvin took, our primary teacher is Jesus Christ, and what would Jesus say to them? He would say, if you do this in my name, it better be the right thing to do. We can't take His name lightly and we can't just do our own thing, then say it is in His name.
This is a John Calvin quote
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth is attacked and yet would remain silent.
Are they attacking Jesus, or are they attacking Christians that they don't perceive as living up to Christianity?
John Calvin was a coward, I will say that right now, because he approved the burning at the stake of Michael Servetus. He approved the burning of someone who disagreed with him. And that's not Christian-like.
If we we are the light of the world, but our light is neon and hung over a spiritual brothel, then what light are they seeing from us? To some people, Christianity has become a red light district...sorry to say, but yes. And then there are those with Black light, showing glow in the dark philosophies...
So what light is coming from us?
To Wildtimes
As we have debated, discussed, "argued", and given words of what we both perceive as truth, I do see your point. You don't want to follow a light that would lead you in a wrong direction. I respect that because I understand that.
I have to accept that you have life experiences that were individual to you and framed your worldview. I do understand that it is not Jesus you are attacking, it is the duplicity of Christianity. You are against people who say one thing and do another, in the name of their faith.
I understand it completely.
I ask all Christians to pray for Wildtimes and to ask God through Jesus name to send the Holy Spirit to him. For once he stands in front of God and sees with his own eyes is when he will understand. In Jesus name. AMEN
AND I know there are MANY pastors and preachers in the churches spewing lies and deceit but my brother rest assured that they will be dealt with and very harsh!
Do you too want to be a part of this flock?
Fraudfinder
I know the thread Religion, Faith and Theology and Conspiracies in Religions are not only about the Christian faith HOWEVER have you noticed that most/many threads at these two forums are about Christianity and the beliefs of Christianity?
Also take a look at who makes these threads. If you would pay attention, you will find that many (not all) people who start religious threads concerning Christianity and the Christian faith (which includes the bible) are not Christians. Have you noticed this? Do some research and you will find this to be true AND it appears to be the same people over and over again.
For someone who is not Christian but hangs out in these type of forums/threads that deal with the Christian faith and/or who starts threads about Christianity but yet they are not a Christian makes one to think they must have an agenda. It makes no sense why someone would start a thread or make a negative post concerning Christianity when they hate the Christian beliefs? AND frequently it is the same people who scream: “Stop pushing religion down my throat” but yet these same people hang around these religious forums and/or start a religious thread.
If someone has such beliefs why even read the thread at all? Why not find another thread or better yet stop coming to these religious forums? Why is that? I can think of a few reasons why:
1. To receive ATS recognition so they get their with stars, flags etc... (how pathetic).
2. These people love to argue..... not debate. They like stirring the fire so it burns hotter. People who hate Christians and attempt to post their hateful remarks against Christ and those who chose to follow Christ.
3. A demonic attempt to influence Christians to rethink their beliefs and to walk away from their faith.
I am not saying ATS is anti-Christ website just many of its members are. So to all Christians let this be a warning to you when visiting these religious forums at ATS. If you are new to the Christian faith and your faith in the Christian religion is not 100% secure I would recommend you stay away from these religious forums. They do not enlighten you but bring division and lies in their statements.
2 Corinthians 4:4 - Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
Those who follow Satan and his demons know what to do to bring doubt with your faith. There are many half truths on the internet and Youtube concerning the Christian faith. Be careful not to fall into their trap.
Ephesians 6:12 - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.