Bullying is Murder

I don't agree on having any laws on cyber bullying because this is 'merika where you have the right to not get offended by law but yet it's still the same country that free speech exists in the constitution. It's the parent's responsibility to teach their kids about bullies and how to deal with them, and also it is the kid's responsibility to just block others if they are being bothered. It is also the parent's responsibility to raise their children right, if they don't the children turn into bullies which is the case 99.999999...% of the time.

When you add these laws because "think of the children", you give more power to the government, and people in general that can use it more for bad than it can ever do good. Saving one life isn't worth the after effects of regulating this, and it will not stop cyber bullying. What it will do is enable people to sue each other for being "offended" or "emotionally scarred" over nothing.

Think about it this way. You're 13, you post on a forum and someone says you suck. You tell your mom and because your mom is a sue-happy person she goes out and sues the forum and the person that said "you suck" for emotional damages. This is terrible and it's bad parenting, but it happens all the time. To pretend that bullies don't exist is stupid since when you leave college and enter the real-world you end up with co-workers and bosses that are bullies.

Americans wash their hands like 30x a day, get flu vaccines every year because of paranoia, and censor everything on TV and what's more amusing is the most common allergy, breasts. My gripe here is that the majority want a royal lifestyle but don't care what the cost is. This is why the US is the highest in debt both on a personal level and on a federal level. These little laws and regulations is what is dumbing down America and why a simple toy like a magnet or food like kinder surprise are illegal.

If you want a bully that is harmful, look around at all of those that want to control your lives. The ones that want to control what your children can and can't do and take away responsibility from everyone. Those are the real bullies that needs attention, not a 10-year-old being mean to a fat kid. We all had bullies and only 1 out of 50,000,000 victim will ever go on a shooting spree (not an actual estimate but it's probably close). Usually these mass-murderers have mental disorders prior to bullying, which is probably why they were bullied in the first place. I digress, the real bully is the government and the people that want to regulate your lives.

i work long hours at 1 job.

My son doesn't bully because of his character. I know this because I am up his ass, even if i am working.

There is no excuse for being a weak parent. None. I will refuse to listen to any.

reply to post by JayinAR


I always bullied kids back in elementry and jr high. that's what kids do. They want to assert there dominance at that age. All it is is like 2 kittens wrestling around. One want to beat on the other. But now a days they call it bullying. Now a days you can't even run in the play ground. Yet the g=v is allowed to bully adults 24/7. It's sad.

I refuse to accept bullying for any reason.
Also, I disagree that in your face bullying is worse than cyber bullying. In your face bullying is often times carried out in a more private setting. Bullies don't generally like lots of witnesses around because it increases the chances of being caught, by say a teacher.

But consider this, I was reading a story the other day about a 15 year old who was raped. When she went public about what had happened several of her female peers took to twitter with statements like "that's what you get for being a skank."

Now that bullying is fill-on public domain where everyone is free to laugh, re-tweet, what have you. It is emotionally devastating and is entirely unacceptable! It tells kids "if you are raped don't bother reporting it because you will be ridiculed and ostracized by your peers."

IMO cyber bullying can be far worse than real, in your face, bullying.
Plus, real life bullying is easily dissuaded by physical violence. (Sorry, I know many don't want to hear someone condone violence, but it worked for me and my bully. I picked a fight with him and although I didn't clearly win the fight, he never bothered me again, instead opting for weaker targets.)

spartacus699
reply to post by JayinAR

 

I always bullied kids back in elementry and jr high. that's what kids do. They want to assert there dominance at that age. All it is is like 2 kittens wrestling around. One want to beat on the other. But now a days they call it bullying. Now a days you can't even run in the play ground. Yet the g=v is allowed to bully adults 24/7. It's sad.

The government having a monopoly on force is a compelling topic, but not what is at play here (unless we are to dive into that darker part of the human psyche on the whole).

JayinAR
I refuse to accept bullying for any reason.
Also, I disagree that in your face bullying is worse than cyber bullying. In your face bullying is often times carried out in a more private setting. Bullies don't generally like lots of witnesses around because it increases the chances of being caught, by say a teacher.

But consider this, I was reading a story the other day about a 15 year old who was raped. When she went public about what had happened several of her female peers took to twitter with statements like "that's what you get for being a skank."

Now that bullying is fill-on public domain where everyone is free to laugh, re-tweet, what have you. It is emotionally devastating and is entirely unacceptable! It tells kids "if you are raped don't bother reporting it because you will be ridiculed and ostracized by your peers."

IMO cyber bullying can be far worse than real, in your face, bullying.
Plus, real life bullying is easily dissuaded by physical violence. (Sorry, I know many don't want to hear someone condone violence, but it worked for me and my bully. I picked a fight with him and although I didn't clearly win the fight, he never bothered me again, instead opting for weaker targets.)

While I fully am on board with parents needing to improve their skills....you must also understand that part of that is breaking this whole "Green Ribbon" culture we have created for ourselves.

Bullying hasn't gotten worse. What has gotten worse is the number of ways that it can inundate ones life. When I was a kid, bullying ended when the school day ended. Home was a respite. Now, that respite is gone.

But consider as well that a society that has removed the fire that toughens our skin, the effects of bullying are more traumatic just from the "wuss factor". No one loses, everyone participates. Of course, there is still the blue and red ribbons for first and second. Maybe a yellow one for 3rd. Everyone else gets a Green Ribbon, because hey....participation is all that matters in life, right?

Part of the problem can be helped reducing the bullying. But jsut as big a piece of the formula is shedding the Green Ribbon Society in favor of raising our kids to live in the real world, where there are winners AND losers in every deal. Otherwise, all the power is given to the "Alpha's" of our kids social groups. They never have to learn to grow tougher skin, either. But it doesn't matter when you are the apex predator.

reply to post by JayinAR


There is a part of me that is grateful (to a small extent) for being bullied at school. It taught me to stand up for myself. My nickname was "Troll" back in high school. This was before the internet, but I was short and pretty muscular back then, I was a natural target. It didn't help that I wasn't a townie either. I was also a anti-bully bully.

I was in plenty of fights and while I didn't always win them, they usually looked pretty rough afterwards.

Couple that with problems at home and it finally came to a head. I had to get away from it all and dropped out of school. Probably the best/worse decision I have ever made. I only go home to visit family nowadays.

But I just can't see how cyber-bullying can really affect some one to the point of offing themselves. Why don't they just turn the damn thing off? Are today's kids really that fragile? Or mentally ill? I hate suicide with a passion. I don't understand it and have very little sympathy for those who commit it.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Oh, you know as well as I do people aren't turning off our mobile devices. Haha
We are like zombies for these damn things. Maybe not everyone, but I'm convinced social media and such is as addictive as drugs to many, many people.

JayinAR
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

Oh, you know as well as I do people aren't turning off our mobile devices. Haha
We are like zombies for these damn things. Maybe not everyone, but I'm convinced social media and such is as addictive as drugs to many, many people.

And that is also why a small part of me hopes that the grid collapses during the upcoming GRIDEX even though tens of thousands would die. But I try to think of it as a reset...though that's not very comforting either.

People think they are being bullied now? Wait until there is no power.

And as another poster said, the parents are responsible as well. They must monitor what their children are doing. And if a parent/child confrontation is needed, then it must be done in a calm manner. Then again, teens are teens and rarely listen. Actually I did, but I never let my parents know that. LOL

For those that are unfamiliar with me - a few years ago we had problems with my first grader getting bullied at school. There should be some old posts regarding this. My son didn't tell us, his twin brother finally told us. My son was scared to tell us. Once we found out, we went to the teacher. She saId she'd keep an eye out. Nothing. We went to the principal. Nothing. Our son told us that everyone thought he was making it up or lying. His brother, bless his heart , was trying his best to protect him by making sure he was never alone. Now keep in mind these are 6 year old kids! Then one day I was in the car pool line and the assistant principal came up to the car and said my son had been crying and lying in a fetal position on the floor since lunchtime. I AM A STAY-AT-HOME MOM!!! No one from the school called me. My baby boy had been hit and had a nail jammed into his legs several times. We took pictures and met with the principal the next day (and kept both boys home). The principal told us that they never actually saw the other boy doing anything, and whenever my son would "complain", they would ask the other boy about it and he would convincingly deny it.

To make an even longer story somewhat shorter, my kids never went back to that hell hole. We were going to sue, but was talked out of it. The principal ended up expelling the other kid. We never did anything or went to any events when we knew the other boy would be there. My "friends" thought we over reacted. I blamed myself for not doing more sooner. That kid ended up sexually abusing one of the children of one of my "friends" the following year. HE WAS SEVEN.

2 years of therapy and one move out of state, my son is a fairly normal 5 th grader at a wonderful school. We have to watch him, however, because he has a mean streak that shows itself every now and again. So far, we've been able to call him on it. And I will never ever trust any teacher or principal to make sure bullying isn't present, no matter how much they say that they have a "zero-tolerance".

reply to post by TDawgRex

Then again, teens are teens and rarely listen. Actually I did, but I never let my parents know that. LOL

Of course you did.
Teens just like to "act" like they're not listening. That's their job, as adolescents...to establish their own identity - self-identification. Without it, people never really mature.

I recall when my son (an oppositional child, but NEVER beaten), my husband and I were out fishing. Son was about 15 at the time, perhaps 14...or 16. But....

he caught a small blue-gill, and as he gently unhooked the fish, holding it in one hand, and removing the hook with the other, he looked into the fish's eye and said, "Now. What did we learn?"

That moment is emblazoned on my mind, and always will be.

Kids like to ACT like they're not listening, but THEY ARE. And adults should NEVER doubt this.

Evidence: Your statement above.

reply to post by Eryiedes


THANK YOU for posting those videos.

As a retired social worker specializing in Children & Families, I can attest that the Family System IS the source of generational bullies...

particularly the second vid, and I heartily recommend that ALL MEMBERS watch it.

It makes me sick to my stomach when people say, "My ass got beat, but only when I 'deserved' it."

NO!!! No child 'deserves' to be beaten, and this to me is CRYSTAL CLEAR.

It ALSO extends to religious upbringing. If a child is brought up to believe that God is a bully and will toss them in "Hell" without a second thought for "being bad" and "born a sinner"..... they WILL ACT IT OUT on others.

I have been bullied for a large part of my life; from my teens until I finally left the workforce. I had tremendous success with my "clients" (helping them parent and learning new coping skills), but my COLLEAGUES were bullies, even up into my 40s. It takes guts to stand up to a workplace bully and say, "This is inappropriate and needs to stop!" and then walk out of the room....

but it is necessary.

Yes, all 'bullies' are hurting inside....and that is a fact. We MUST stop parents bullying their kids - and we MUST stop parents instilling "fear of a tyrant God who will throw your 'azz' in Hell". It TRAUMATIZES PEOPLE.

I'm really glad you've joined ATS, Eryiedes. A welcome and educated, sensitive and sensible voice. Thanks for being here.

---------------------------------------

TO JAYinAR:

THANK YOU for this thread.
S/F. Brilliant contribution.

I applaud you.

Earlier I mentioned "self-identification" as a developmental "job" of teens.

There is also "Differentiation" - which means establishing where one's family ends and oneself begins. The two, of course, are perpetually "mixed in"...

but it IS possible to deconstruct one's upbringing and background and arrive at a place of Self that is separate, unique, strong, and DOES NOT NEED TO BULLY ANYONE.

reply to post by wildtimes


Namasute,

Thank you very much for the kind words.
I'd love to take credit but I'm just a monkey on a keyboard with far too much time on his hands.
All credit for this should go to the videos author, Stefan Molyneux.
At the risk of sounding religious:

"I am just the messenger"

-Peace be with you-

JohnPhoenix
reply to post by JayinAR

 

Stopping the bullying will Not solve the problem - because thats easy to say, too hard to implement.

THE PROBLEM is parents are not teaching the children to let this crap roll off their backs. Internet bullying is silly - If your child cannot distinguish between someones opinion and something they should really get upset about - they have no business being on the internet.

Teach them the internet is like a movie or tv show - it's not all real and factual - much of it is make believe - you have to look at everything told to you that way before you research to find the truth. Nothing people say to you over a social system should effect you in any way - just like the movies.

Live bullying is a little harder because it's someone actually in your face. You either need to teach your kids to fight back if it comes to blows for defense only ( get the upper hand but dont be the aggressor) or to ignore the thug and walk away. Even if it's a young teenager in school - I'd be more proud of my kid for returning a punch to tell that bully he's no easy target - even if he gets suspended, than see my kid walk away and continue to be bullied by the other kid.

How do you stop live bullying? You fight back. It's the Only way to make someone leave you alone while saving face and your pride.

Whats wrong with people today they don't want to teach the kids to defend themselves - thats just as damaging - many times more so - than the bullying itse;f because now the kid will be an easy target all his life because you the stupid parent taught the kid not to fight back.. i see it happen all the time. Not teaching your kid to defend himself is a BAD PARENT.

What would you rather have.. little Johnny have a bloody nose for a day or little johnny have a bloody nose every week? Go run and tell a teacher? Nope.. doesn't work, this will only cause the bully to resent the athority and continue to bully the kid more for it.

edit on 26-10-2013 by JohnPhoenix because: sp

Bravo Sir !

The ultra - overly sensitive crowd are apparently living in a bubble far beyond any I have experienced.
Bullies pick on the weak, correct ? That is their nature/nurture . I believe [ in large degree ] " There are no victims only volunteers " DON'T BE A VICTIM ! Pretty simple stuff. I'm sure our government loves the anti-bully silliness. Makes the next generation much more compliant. When did " Don't Fight Back " enter into the human experience. Jeez we are raising a bunch of cry babies. " In Fifty Years we'll All Be Chicks "
By Adam Carolla

reply to post by dazbog


No offense sir, but the only person apparently acting like a "crybaby" here is you.
Sleep tight Romeo.

-Amitaba-

reply to post by dazbog


You obviously failed to review the literature offered in the OP. There is a link between mobbing and mass murder.

Go ahead and keep justifying your desire to "pick on the weak" though.
Its people like you that keep us from having nice things. So "bravo sir."

I first read/heard about the Amanda Todd story yesterday. Poor girl made one mistake, was honest about it, and was bullyed to death. Surely this is a topic media needs to focus more on!

I remember when I was in school we had about two students who were known bullies. They usually got suspended and then that was it. One girl she was a bully all the way thru HS til she dropped out. She was just a mean person.

Bullying today has gotten out of control with the use of the internet and social media. I also think alot of the programs teens watch DO NOT help.

Take the show "Bad Girls Club." This is a show about so called "bad" girls and ALL they do is fight and bully. They make it "cool" to be a bully. It's pathetic and all those girls should be ashamed of themselves acting like that on national tv and promoting the "bad" girl image as ok. It's not.

I also started watching the new 90210 and compared to the one in the 90s that my mom wouldn't let us watch well the 90s one is HIGHLY tamed compared to the newer one. It has no morals to the episodes or anything. They all bully each other in HORRIBLE ways and then forgive each other and are best friends again. It's like they are saying that kind of behavior is ok to do to your friends and others. I was really surprised at how different the show was compared to the one I watched. Heck the episodes of the 90s one had a lesson behind each one, the current one well I have yet to see ANY lessons being taught to kids in this show. It's all be a mean girl, drink and dress as sleazy as can be. No wonder teen girls are the way they are! I don't even need to bring up the programming on MTV, it speaks for itself.

I also blame the parents for not knowing what their kids are up to. They want to be friends and fit in with their kids instead of parent and teach them what is right and wrong. If I were a teen right now I would not be able to be on the internet unsupervised and I sure as heck wouldn't be allowed to have FB and my mom would definitely not let me watch half the programming on TV right now.

I read the story and FB posts/messages between the girls who bullied the teen that committed suicide. One seemed to have remorse while the other, think her name is Guadalupe, has NONE. That girl needs a good kick in the rear. She is a horrible kid and the things she said in those messages about that poor girl who killed herself just shows she doesn't care. Where are her parents?! Do they not know what their child is up to? This is one of many reasons I dont' think teens should have full access to the internet. Parents have NO clue what their kids are up to. The internet is a vast place and one to easily get into trouble on.

I had some friends kids who were on my FB and they would lie about their age, post inappropriate pics and block their parents so they couldn't see them. I of course told the parents what was going on because I was worried about a 14 yr old posting inappropriate pics on her FB. My sister did this with my cousins who got into a lot of trouble with things they were doing but their parents had NO clue because they blocked them from those posts.

IMO teens dont' belong on social media. It is clear they can't handle it.