Cover-up: Top Israeli rabbi 'found Messiah'

reply to post by Spookybelle


The obvious answer to both your questions is the simplest one, it fit the story. Every story needs a villain, the bible has a great one. God allowed it because it drove the story.

Not to belittle the good Rabbi but at over 100 years of age there is also the distinct possibility of senility creeping in. I'm rather inclined to not believe it, either it was a hoax or what I just wrote. In my heart I don't feel the Messiah has arrived yet.

I'm Jewish and Jesus appeared to me when I was 13 years old. I was repenting with all of my heart, I begged to die rather than be apart of this sinful world. The funny thing is, being raised Jewish, I had no foreknowledge of christian teachings / books / apocrypha, but what I've learned today is I lived out the story of Tobias in modern times.

I felt like I was going to die right then and there and cried out Jesus help me and on that word I saw a shining cross appear in the blue sky where from the upper atmosphere this cross came down and split into 3 lights where one of them telepathically told me he was Raphael. Jesus is either the messiah and real and riding on a cloud of glory, or this is the greatest deception ever created.

Spookybelle
These threads are funny.

So God, who wants to give a man a vision of who the Messiah is, is apparently so weak that the media or government is able to cover it up?

I think if God wanted this information out that he is probably powerful enough to ensure that it happens and cannot be thwarted by humans who don't want that information released.

Don't ya think?

If you are Christian i guess you have to consider a few things, this seems the way it was always done for instance. Speaking through prophets before events.

Acts 2:17

"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

But if they show flamboyant signs they are the false prophets.

Matthew 24:24 ESV / 53 helpful votes

For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

reply to post by Jordan River


I look at a title like this and can't help wondering....

"When was he lost" ???

libertytoall
I'm Jewish and Jesus appeared to me when I was 13 years old. I was repenting with all of my heart, I begged to die rather than be apart of this sinful world. The funny thing is, being raised Jewish, I had no foreknowledge of christian teachings / books / apocrypha, but what I've learned today is I lived out the story of Tobias in modern times.

I felt like I was going to die right then and there and cried out Jesus help me and on that word I saw a shining cross appear in the blue sky where from the upper atmosphere this cross came down and split into 3 lights where one of them telepathically told me he was Raphael. Jesus is either the messiah and real and riding on a cloud of glory, or this is the greatest deception ever created.

edit on 16-10-2013 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)

You descredited yourself on that final sentence

This was on a religious novel I read about 10 years ago. Character's name was supposed to be Chaim Rozenwig. He discover who the messiah was, went on tv and immediately become an outcast. Was a good book. Think it was one of the "left Behind" books.

Funny how nearly the same thing happens in real life.

Spookybelle

Thorneblood
reply to post by Spookybelle

 

Right, that's why his son was born in a barn amongst cow # and little piggies right? Cause of all the power and wealth that goes with that.

Shall I start listing off the Kings he dealt with or would you like to google it?

Seriously though, the majority of people that God dealt with in the Bible were not poor folk. They were those with wealth or power that had changes due to God's interference in order to help the less fortunate.

Its not hard to look up the names of the main players in the Bible and see what their status was you know. This isn't even debatable.

Not sure which version of the bible you are reading, but the one I have seems to indicate he has a pretty long history of dealing with people of low status who don't fit the bill as "royalty". Jesus Christ himself wasn't exactly wining and dining with pilate. He associated with the lowliest people there were. Lepers, drunks, tax collectors, beggars.

If we're going to look at the OT, Moses may have come from royalty, but he was completely disgraced when God called upon him. Look at all the prophets of the old testament, and most of them were either out in the wilderness, in bondage, or despised by their peers.

Your assumptions are entirely incorrect (despite your assertions to the contrary).

reply to post by Char-Lee


Yes but that's the thing about prophecy. Nobody knows and anyone pretending to know can't possibly.

People have been predicting that they were in the end days a week after Christ was crucified.

You can find writings from any time period of some visionary claiming this or that sign was definitive proof that the end times were upon us.

Same thing that happens today.

Yet we are still here.

Anyone predicting anything from a vision must be discounted off the bat until they have proven themselves and, like you said, its the way its always been done in the Bible and which goes back to my original point.

If there is something that God wants known, he will make it known whether that be through writing on a stone tablet or prophecy.

Apparently what this man has "seen" is not something from God or we wouldn't be discussing it.

DeadSeraph

Spookybelle

Thorneblood
reply to post by Spookybelle

 

Right, that's why his son was born in a barn amongst cow # and little piggies right? Cause of all the power and wealth that goes with that.

Shall I start listing off the Kings he dealt with or would you like to google it?

Seriously though, the majority of people that God dealt with in the Bible were not poor folk. They were those with wealth or power that had changes due to God's interference in order to help the less fortunate.

Its not hard to look up the names of the main players in the Bible and see what their status was you know. This isn't even debatable.

Not sure which version of the bible you are reading, but the one I have seems to indicate he has a pretty long history of dealing with people of low status who don't fit the bill as "royalty". Jesus Christ himself wasn't exactly wining and dining with pilate. He associated with the lowliest people there were. Lepers, drunks, tax collectors, beggars.

If we're going to look at the OT, Moses may have come from royalty, but he was completely disgraced when God called upon him. Look at all the prophets of the old testament, and most of them were either out in the wilderness, in bondage, or despised by their peers.

Your assumptions are entirely incorrect (despite your assertions to the contrary).

Yes but the majority of people in the Bible that are main characters are those in some position of power. Notice that I said most, not all. And my post was in response to the OP who posted this:

God has always worked with the weakest, but whatever you think

That was a false statement which I showed was an error.

reply to post by Spookybelle


Curious about your logic here... According to Christians, God already made his decree through Jesus Christ. This was documented in the new testament. But you are claiming this rabbi's claims are illegitimate because we would have heard that Jesus is the messiah before if it were true? Haven't we heard it for 2000 years?

reply to post by Robonakka


I thought of the exact same thing but it wasn't Chaim it was Rabbi Tsion Ben-Judah. In the book he had been commissioned by the Israeli government. Although he had begun to conclude Jesus of Nazareth was the messiah he did not make an announcement until after the rapture. He was steeled in his position after a meeting with the two witnesses of revelation in which he repeated the words of Nicodemus as the witnesses spoke the words of Jesus.

Rabbi Tsion Ben-Judah (Left Behind Series)

DeadSeraph
reply to post by Spookybelle

 

Curious about your logic here... According to Christians, God already made his decree through Jesus Christ. This was documented in the new testament. But you are claiming this rabbi's claims are illegitimate because we would have heard that Jesus is the messiah before if it were true? Haven't we heard it for 2000 years?

That would validate my point and put the esteemed Rabbi in the irrelevant category wouldn't it?

Yes you are correct that God did already make this plan known and therefore any prophecy related to it has been deemed pointless at this point.

If the Rabbi is simply confirming what was already written then why is there a need to even discuss this?

Spookybelle

DeadSeraph
reply to post by Spookybelle

 

Curious about your logic here... According to Christians, God already made his decree through Jesus Christ. This was documented in the new testament. But you are claiming this rabbi's claims are illegitimate because we would have heard that Jesus is the messiah before if it were true? Haven't we heard it for 2000 years?

That would validate my point and put the esteemed Rabbi in the irrelevant category wouldn't it?

Yes you are correct that God did already make this plan known and therefore any prophecy related to it has been deemed pointless at this point.

If the Rabbi is simply confirming what was already written then why is there a need to even discuss this?

Because he was a rabbi, and not a Christian. He ended up concluding through his own studies that he was in error, and that Jesus was in fact the messiah. He wasn't just any rabbi either, and was incredibly well respected in Israel. It's a very interesting story... I'm not sure why you feel it isn't worthy of discussion?

DeadSeraph

Spookybelle

DeadSeraph
reply to post by Spookybelle

 

Curious about your logic here... According to Christians, God already made his decree through Jesus Christ. This was documented in the new testament. But you are claiming this rabbi's claims are illegitimate because we would have heard that Jesus is the messiah before if it were true? Haven't we heard it for 2000 years?

That would validate my point and put the esteemed Rabbi in the irrelevant category wouldn't it?

Yes you are correct that God did already make this plan known and therefore any prophecy related to it has been deemed pointless at this point.

If the Rabbi is simply confirming what was already written then why is there a need to even discuss this?

Because he was a rabbi, and not a Christian. He ended up concluding through his own studies that he was in error, and that Jesus was in fact the messiah. He wasn't just any rabbi either, and was incredibly well respected in Israel. It's a very interesting story... I'm not sure why you feel it isn't worthy of discussion?

I believe we are debating different things and I certainly meant no disrespect to the Rabbi. Yes it is a big deal for a Rabbi to admit that Jesus is the Messiah, however I do question the methods that many people claim to have received their enlightenment from.

This would be my main problem with the Koran and even though its a fascinating book, it is based on visionary tales. We can at least confirm many parts of the Biblical story through neutral primary resources.

reply to post by Spookybelle


When I first read about this back when the rabbi in question passed, I seem to recall some mention of him using the Qabalah to come to his conclusions. I should see if I can find the source. I'm not sure senility is an adequate claim as some have mentioned. This man was very very learned. Fascinating story none the less. If anything, I find it interesting that he sealed the name of the messiah in an envelope with instructions not to open it until after he had passed away. That much alone is very interesting from a sociological standpoint. It would seem to suggest that he felt a great degree of trepidation as far as his findings were concerned (possibly even feared for his own safety, hence releasing them after his passing).

Edit to add:

It would appear my memory served correct. He was a well known qabalist

judaism.about.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Jordan River
What about the ancient hebrew letter tav storehouse.sonsofzadok.com... †× meant a brand which they branded cattle, the separation of cattle and people still there

Jordan River

libertytoall
I'm Jewish and Jesus appeared to me when I was 13 years old. I was repenting with all of my heart, I begged to die rather than be apart of this sinful world. The funny thing is, being raised Jewish, I had no foreknowledge of christian teachings / books / apocrypha, but what I've learned today is I lived out the story of Tobias in modern times.

I felt like I was going to die right then and there and cried out Jesus help me and on that word I saw a shining cross appear in the blue sky where from the upper atmosphere this cross came down and split into 3 lights where one of them telepathically told me he was Raphael. Jesus is either the messiah and real and riding on a cloud of glory, or this is the greatest deception ever created.

edit on 16-10-2013 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)

You descredited yourself on that final sentence

How is that final sentence discrediting?

So Yeshua, seems more respectful.

reply to post by Jordan River


It's also an anagram of 'Hey USA'.

Also 'Shy Eau' (shy water, shy 'of' water / dirty)

Use Hay
Yeah US
etc.

In other words...a rose by any other name smells just as sweet...what's in a name?

I judge people by actions and deeds, not name or reputation.

My personal opinion? The Rabbi was a senile old man, enjoying the fame at the tail end of his long life...a lie about a messiah, any messiah would have kept him in the spotlight, and almost guarenteed he'd be remembered after his death.

Think about it...why would a messiah in the 21st century be named using Middle eastern naming convention? Why not Derek, or Justin or Zhan? Because if you're making up a lie, the first people who need to believe your lie are the people you live amongst, other Middle Eastern people, who are used to, and would more readilly believe a ME name.

The old boy was a fraud IMO.

reply to post by Spookybelle


The rabbi is dead and sharon is just a marker of when CHRIST...Not Jesus. Christ is to come. Jesus was a man Christ is God. Jesus is dead. Although his consciousness lives on.

And the reason his message was not delivered powerfully, is because knowledge cannot be forced upon anybody... they have to accept knowledge on their own terms. Knowledge is the extent of freewill you have the ability to reject or accept knowledge/information. Choices and decisions are dictated by experiences. Every single moment. Every single event or outside force dictates the choices you make. Individual freewill as dictated by God is but an illusion an idea so to speak.

Hope you find the light.