The Deadly Spread of Bulverism on ATS

Dear ATSers

I've noticed that Bulverism is starting to spread from the obvious trolls to infect even some of the more responsible posters. This mental disease should be identified, shamed, and stomped out as aggressively as we can.

Bulverism was first identified by C.S. Lewis in an essay of the same name written in 1941.

Suppose I think, after doing my accounts, that I have a large balance at the bank. And suppose you want to find out whether this belief of mine is “wishful thinking.” You can never come to any conclusion by examining my psychological condition. Your only chance of finding out is to sit down and work through the sum yourself. When you have checked my figures, then, and then only, will you know whether I have that balance or not.

If you find my arithmetic correct, then no amount of vapouring about my psychological condition can be anything but a waste of time. If you find my arithmetic wrong, then it may be relevant to explain psychologically how I came to be so bad at my arithmetic, and the doctrine of the concealed wish will become relevant - but only after you have yourself done the sum and discovered me to be wrong on purely arithmetical grounds.

In other words, you must show that a man is wrong before you start explaining why he is wrong. The modern method [Note: This essay was written in 1941.] is to assume without discussion that he is wrong and then distract his attention from this (the only real issue) by busily explaining how he became to be so silly.

In the course of the last fifteen years I have found this vice so common that I have had to invent a name for it. I call it “Bulverism.” Some day I am going the write the biography of its imaginary inventor, Ezekiel Bulver, whose destiny was determined at the age of five when he heard his mother say to his father - who had been maintaining that two sides of a triangle were together greater than the third - “Oh, you say that because you are a man.” “At that moment,” E. Bulver assures us, “there flashed across my opening mind the great truth that refutation is no necessary part of argument. Assume your opponent is wrong, and then explain his error, and the world will be at your feet. Attempt to prove that he is wrong or (worse still) try to find out whether he is wrong or right, and the national dynamism of our age will thrust you to the wall.” That is how Bulver became one of the makers of the Twentieth Century.

www.barking-moonbat.com...

You see that phenomenon all over the site, and it's spreading.
"Of course people think war in Syria is the solution, they want to expand the power of the Rothschild banking system."

"Of course Gays should have every right that straights have, the only people opposed are haters, or secret gays themselves, or crazy religious fanatics."

"Of course Zimmerman was guilty, he was only freed because every one involved was bought off by racists, or were racists themselves."

"Of course GMOs are deadly, people only support them because they are paid shills or brainwashed."

"Of course Obama's plans are good, they're only criticized by people who want to destroy the country or are racists."

"Of course Islamists are peaceful, you attack them because you are an Islamophobe Zionist, or brainwashed by the Jewish controlled media, if you're not in their pay."

Feel free to add your own examples, your pledges to oppose Bulverism, or simply take warning silently and keep your eyes open for Ezekiel Bulver's deadly legacy.

With respect,
Charles1952

Good Topic Charles !! S&F

Many people use this as a *tactic*.

Mainly because it is effective and *neutralizes* the scope of standard logical rebuttals.

As we know, this is dangerous in the wrong hands.

Definitely not for amateurs that fall into the nonprofessional, nonspecialist categories.

It may even be taught as a debate strategy.

I will let people with more knowledge answer the details..

reply to post by charles1952


Lets be honest....since the days of the old BBS systems it has been a steady downward spiral out on the webz.

By giving out more accessibility, there has been an increase of mendacity. I wonder what the current state of affairs has done to ATS membership growth?

reply to post by charles1952


I hear that, I just wrote a thread where people hated me just for having an opinion and some people plain out verbally attacked me with a vengeance. It is sad when people hate people just for an opinion. Opinions should be respected and then understood. people will just jump right down your throat and not even bother to ask why you have your opinion.

reply to post by charles1952

In the words of Ezekiel Hussein Bulver, "You're likeable enough, Hillary."

reply to post by charles1952


"Of course you have your own view that aligns with others, you appear to agree without doing your own research; clearly Bulverism"

Can people simply not agree with a point of view without being attacked for it and then labeled?

Are you not doing what you are trying to oppose?

reply to post by xuenchen

Dear xuenchen,

I would suppose politicians and other salesmen use Bulverism frequently, but I'm a romantic and have high hopes for ATS.

With any luck, people can abandon the use of it here and get back to trying to find knowledge and the truth. We can afford to give up opportunities for beating people over the head.

Well, . . . I told you I was a romantic, but I can dream, can't I?

With respect,
Charles1952

This is wonderful.

reply to post by Sovaka

Dear Sovaka,

Interesting post, thanks. I'm not sure I understand it, but I appreciate it anyway.

What I'm trying to point out is the spreading use of a tactic in our discussions. Person A might make a statement like, "The current policies of the Federal Reserve are dominated by Jewish Bankers." Ok, fine, I have no problem with anyone making such a statement. Bulverism comes in when his opponent, Person B, responds, "You're only saying that because you're a Nazi sympathizer."

I'm suggesting we forget about why the statement was made, until we know whether it's true or not.

I also have no trouble with someone, Person C, saying, "I agree, it's all run by Zionists." That doesn't add anything to the truth or falsity of the original remark, but it doesn't hurt, it just takes up space.

Perhaps I didn't explain it clearly. Is that a little better?

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I have to agree... It was less colorful with amber everything and dot matrix sucked. DOS 3.2 was a pain in the butt as well....but we could feel special for having some arcane knowledge few did way back then. lol.... I was just mastering DOS and full system .bat file menus (they worked too!) when the first Windows came out.

Nothing has been the same since. There went the neighborhood.

reply to post by charles1952


Tis sad, but ultimately true.

And it is used by all the differently affiliated parties, both in the media and here on ATS. However, it is a fairly transparent method, and does not hold up to proper scrutiny and rigour, so perhaps there is less reason to be concerned by it, than there otherwise might be.

People around these parts, are after all, not quite as easy to fool as some of their chatter might have you believe!

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Dear bigfatfurrytexan,

My hero, and the secret desire of all Texan skin rug hunters, I agree with the increase in mendacity. But besides being a fun little thread to put together, I'm hoping it will have some small impact on those infected with Bulverism who may not have realized it.

Certainly the Internet is a swamp, but out of a swamp (as Evolutionists tell us), came the very pinnacle of human life. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you . . . Honey Boo Boo!! Yea!!!! Hooray!!!!

All right, I'm getting a little carried away, but one does get tired of deep, serious, comments all the time.

With respect,
Charles1952

charles1952
reply to post by Sovaka

 

Person A might make a statement like, "The current policies of the Federal Reserve are dominated by Jewish Bankers." Ok, fine, I have no problem with anyone making such a statement. Bulverism comes in when his opponent, Person B, responds, "You're only saying that because you're a Nazi sympathizer."

Isn't this just called Trolling?

I think the issue comes back to Person A and whether or not they wish to respond in a similar negative manner.
Would it not be easier to not feed the trolls and ignore the obvious railroad post?

I think the Mods here have picked up their game in that regard and have been removing obvious derailment posts.

The answer is simple... Those that attack in a negative manner without showing proof or reason of their rebuttal, should simply be ignored.

I can't fathom how 'Internet Bullying" has EVER been an issue???
Especially when you have the power to keep yourself out of the mental abusive fight by either ignoring the comments, or leaving the discussion.

My hats off to the Mods and their more rigorous efforts to slay Trolls.

reply to post by Sovaka

Though, in agreeing with the mods are doing well.

Yeah these teeter on trolling to trolling, examples,
"Tea *partiers* are ruining the county and anyone who think like them is just as guilty."
"Conspiracy nuts make all conspiracies look like they were hatched from tin foil hat wearing kooks."


reply to post by enament

Unfortunately, the reaction was because some parts of the OP played into what this OP is illustrating.

Just like if I wrote a thread, as a women, showing my opinion about "Men Becoming Too Feminine":

I'll re-word that OP(not my own opinion)a bit here,

"I have recently became single,and I am noticing it is getting very difficult to find a man that isn't covered "Metrosexual" or wearing designer clothes, shaving their body hair, etc. I don't mind one or two feminine looking attributes, such as a shaved face. When people want to be original why does it always wind up being emulating a trend that everyone else is doing? About half of women out there dislike these trends on men. And those who do like them on men sometimes wear pants, which used to be considered for men only."


continued...

"I have been noticing more and more men becoming too feminine not only wearing high fashion clothes but do not have hair on their body! Such as clean cut to the point of looking like women being more feminine than ever. What ever happened to men wearing rugged jeans and not caring if they got dirty, as opposed to new designer clothes? What ever happened to arm, leg, facial and chest hair? "

charles1952
reply to post by Sovaka

 

Person A might make a statement like, "The current policies of the Federal Reserve are dominated by Jewish Bankers." Ok, fine, I have no problem with anyone making such a statement. Bulverism comes in when his opponent, Person B, responds, "You're only saying that because you're a Nazi sympathizer."

I've never seen anything like that on ATS... Oh wait!

This tactic of the human mind has been around as we've had speech. Unfortunately it's not going anywhere soon. Yeah, I remember the old BBS boards of old. They were downright brutal sometimes.

Excellent topic and reminder. Never knew it had an actual name assigned to it.

TrueBrit
People around these parts, are after all, not quite as easy to fool as some of their chatter might have you believe!

Well said.

I think a big part of the problem is that ATS has changed. Once upon a day this site was inhabited mostly by people who wanted to investigate all the topics other places wouldn't touch. In amongst those people were a few skeptics who chimed in if they saw fit. It was a nice balance and it worked. But now! It seems its inhabited mostly by skeptics! They totally swamp the threads and the original topic is almost lost amongst all the name calling etc.

I just took a look on a couple of current threads. Thought you'd like to see them.

This is pure blackmail with a gun to the head of the American people by a small group of fanatics who are only using a tactical form of political terrorism because they lost the game, so are playing dirty with human beings lives, kids in this case.

Trust me when i say that these beliefs are the result of very low self esteem. These people desperately need help with their mental health. They're unhappy with their own lives and downtrodden. Being a neo-nazi offers them both a place to fit in and a feeling of superiority that they wouldn't otherwise have.

Sure, the Mods are wonderful (All hail the Mods! (Do I get my ATS cookie?)) But they don't catch everything, and people don't complain about everything. I see nothing wrong with saying, "Fine, you think my mind is scrambled from being dropped on my head as a baby, and I have mother-fixation issues, and I've been bought by the Mossad, But am I wrong? For that is the question that counts.

dreamingawake

"I have recently became single,and I am noticing it is getting very difficult to find a man that isn't covered "Metrosexual" or wearing designer clothes, shaving their body hair, etc. I don't mind one or two feminine looking attributes, such as a shaved face. When people want to be original why does it always wind up being emulating a trend that everyone else is doing? About half of women out there dislike these trends on men. And those who do like them on men sometimes wear pants, which used to be considered for men only."


continued...

"I have been noticing more and more men becoming too feminine not only wearing high fashion clothes but do not have hair on their body! Such as clean cut to the point of looking like women being more feminine than ever. What ever happened to men wearing rugged jeans and not caring if they got dirty, as opposed to new designer clothes? What ever happened to arm, leg, facial and chest hair? "

edit on 4-10-2013 by dreamingawake because: Added more.

Um, yeah, this whole "I really just want a man to be my girlfriend" approach is pretty sad. Men and Women are different, physically and mentally, so as to COMPLIMENT each other.

Society is doing it's best to neuter us.

One thing I ADORE about the UK, if you as a man have a problem with another man, you are more than welcome to take it outside. Nobody will call the cops unless it looks like death is near. It's exhilarating.

People here in the US talk smack because they know you'll get arrested if you drop the silly frakkers...


- SN

Well let's hope we aren't starting a new trend.

I can see it now...

We will have people calling other people Bulverists ...

Has anyone spotted this yet ?

reply to post by SadistNocturne

Dear SadistNocturne,

Forgive me, but I'm not sure how this fits in with the idea of the thread. Would you explain it to me? Or, perhaps edit it to make it clearer?

With respect,
Charles1952