Question about the Messiah.

I consider myself to be a student of religion though I often get confused by different interpretations and varied explanations.

Please correct me as needed.

Its my understanding that Jews, Christians and Moslems all believe that a savior or Messiah will reappear.

However, these groups dont agree on who that Messiah will be.

Christians and Moslems both believe that the Messiah will be Jesus ie the Second Coming.

But Jews think it will be someone else.

So what happens when the alleged Messiah appears and he isnt the "right one"?

Can we expect even more discontent? Will this future event be a reason for more turbulence?

reply to post by gladtobehere


Christians believe in Jesus Christ.... Jews and Muslims don't. That isn't to say that they don't believe that he existed, because they certainly do... they just don't believe that he is the Son of God or the Messiah. Soon, the figure known as the AntiChrist will come on the scene. You can read all about him in Revelation 13. There are other places in the Bible that mention him as well, like Daniel and 2 Thessalonians. The AntiChrist will rule the world and will eventually claim to be Jesus Christ. He will have a very large following, and in my opinion it will be mostly Jews, Muslims, and Catholics with several of the "Christian" denominations also following, such as Pentecostals, Methodists, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses because all of those denominations believe in a "works based" salvation and are false religions. These Religions are the "Great Whore" spoken of in Revelation 17(KJV).

reply to post by gladtobehere


actually bro muslims dont believe jesus was the messiah
they are waiting for the "imam mahdi", supposedly some messiah type who is going to crush the jews.......does that help?

Well, first, you need to prove/disprove the existence of these dieties, and given the amount that have been written about and spoke of by mankind throughout history, good luck finding which one's (if any, possibly all) real.

Good luck.

(Speaking in manners like "The Lords truth will enter your soul and turn you towards the light," do not constitute as 'The Real God' and certainly not proof.)

Secondly, if God were real, and if he were to return (lot of if's, postulation here), chances are we'd be wiped out and/or "ascended" before any petty ant cried out "My God was the right one! Screw the rest of you!" Lot of speculation, yeah, but if 'the' God were to return, I don't think he'd come with guidance and helping hands.

And OP I'm not attacking you at all, I'm just laying down some groundwork because these threads always go a certain way at a point. I enjoy your question and am excited to see the responses from others!

Secondly,

gladtobehere
I consider myself to be a student of religion though I often get confused by different interpretations and varied explanations.

Please correct me as needed.

Its my understanding that Jews, Christians and Moslems all believe that a savior or Messiah will reappear.

However, these groups dont agree on who that Messiah will be.

Christians and Moslems both believe that the Messiah will be Jesus ie the Second Coming.

But Jews think it will be someone else.

So what happens when the alleged Messiah appears and he isnt the "right one"?

Can we expect even more discontent? Will this future event be a reason for more turbulence?

'Saviour Mechanisms' are a dynamic that is diametrically opposed to the concept of Almightiness...

...spot that flaw, and you can dispense with the comic books...

Å99

reply to post by OptimusSubprime

He will have a very large following, and in my opinion it will be mostly Jews, Muslims, and Catholics with several of the "Christian" denominations also following, such as Pentecostals, Methodists, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses because all of those denominations believe in a "works based" salvation and are false religions.

Works are just as important as faith. Your faith means nothing if you just sit around and let the bad guys have their way.

reply to post by gladtobehere


Hello gladtobehere, may Peace be with you.


• The Jewish people reject Jesus as the Messiah, and are still awaiting their prophesied King Messiah.

• The Muslims do indeed acknowledge Jesus (Isa) as the true Messiah prophesied in the Old Testament, but only credit him as a Prophet,... not as the Son of God, not as God in the Flesh, and not a Trinity.




If one were to objectively study the Christian and Islamic eschatology of the End Times, one would be drawn to the conclusion that the two religions are indeed antipodes of one another. The leading figures of End times prophesy are eerily mirrored.


According to Christianity:
Jesus
False Prophet
AntiChrist

According to Islam:
Isa
Imam Mahdi
Dajjal

Christianity and Islam Objectively Compared:
Jesus = Dajjal
False Prophet = Isa
AntiChrist = Imam Mahdi




And this is how/why these religions predict/anticipate an End Times Great War of religion. They are perfectly doctrined to be against each other at the End Times.




You might want to check out this wonderful thread:
Correlations Between the Antichrist and the Islamic Mahdi

reply to post by Sahabi


More than that for which man is willing to kill, beware that for which man is willing to die.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


reply to post by toddy3174


So in trying to keep this simple, which is difficult when religion is involved, I'll quote wikipedia.

en.wikipedia.org...

The first three intro paragraphs gives us a summary.

It talks about Jesus but also references a Mahdi?

gladtobehere
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

reply to post by toddy3174

 

So in trying to keep this simple, which is difficult when religion is involved, I'll quote wikipedia.

en.wikipedia.org...

The first three intro paragraphs gives us a summary.

It talks about Jesus but also references a Mahdi?

"Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia, written collaboratively by the people who use it."

...that's convenient...

Å99

Sahabi
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

Christianity and Islam Objectively Compared:
Jesus = Dajjal
False Prophet = Isa
AntiChrist = Imam Mahdi

thou doth smoketh some very potent crack.

Jesus = Isa
false prophet = dajjal
antichrist = mahdi/second Jesus

fix0red

reply to post by gladtobehere

Christians and Moslems both believe that the Messiah will be Jesus ie the Second Coming.

I'm a Christian and I believe that Jesus is currently the Messiah.
There is no purpose for Jesus to "Come Again" any more than what he has already.
The idea within early, New Testament era Christians of a Jesus that "every eye shall see" and "coming in the clouds" is one of the supreme elevation of Jesus to the position of God, in that he will be the one people will see when there is a hypothetical "Judgment Day" or "That Day" or "The Last Day" that was a common belief passed down through Jewish mythology.
So it isn't a demand that Jesus should "return", but a classification of his true status in the grand scheme of things of the Cosmos.

But Jews think it will be someone else.

So what happens when the alleged Messiah appears and he isnt the "right one"?

Can we expect even more discontent? Will this future event be a reason for more turbulence?

No one will "Come". The "one from Heaven" already came, and we are to believe in him, now, and not after some future divine "breaking into" the mundane world.

reply to post by filledcup

thou doth smoketh some very potent crack.

Jesus = Isa
false prophet = dajjal
antichrist = mahdi/second Jesus

fix0red

Superficially and without deeper knowledge of the eschatological details,... the comparison you offer 'appears' to be the correct assumption. Your comparison works when examining their titles alone.

However, when one looks into the Christian and Islamic descriptions of the End Times figures, and the details of the events and actions,... it becomes clear that Christian's End Times figures are antipodal and juxtaposed mirrors of Islam's End Times figures.

reply to post by Sahabi


100% correct. The AC will be the Messiah to the jews, "He that comes in his own name, he you will accept."
What ppl don't understand is that in the OT, the jews believed in TWO messiahs. A suffering messiah, and one to be a king coming in power & great glory. It never occurred to them the two could be the same person.

Those that say the god of Christianity & muslims are the same god, are either willfully ignorant, or blindly stupid. allah is an "unknowable" god, whereas Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice". allah "has no sons" (arabic writing around the Dome of the rock) yet Jesus is the son of god. (although, iirc allah had three daughters, so figure that one out.)

The bible says that the beast (AC) will come from the abyss, the al mahdi will come from a "well", where he has been for over a thousand years, yes?

I mean seriously, it's NOT that hard to connect the dots.

schadenfreude
reply to post by Sahabi

 

100% correct. The AC will be the Messiah to the jews, "He that comes in his own name, he you will accept."
What ppl don't understand is that in the OT, the jews believed in TWO messiahs. A suffering messiah, and one to be a king coming in power & great glory. It never occurred to them the two could be the same person.

Those that say the god of Christianity & muslims are the same god, are either willfully ignorant, or blindly stupid. allah is an "unknowable" god, whereas Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice". allah "has no sons" (arabic writing around the Dome of the rock) yet Jesus is the son of god. (although, iirc allah had three daughters, so figure that one out.)

The bible says that the beast (AC) will come from the abyss, the al mahdi will come from a "well", where he has been for over a thousand years, yes?

I mean seriously, it's NOT that hard to connect the dots.

edit on 3-10-2013 by schadenfreude because: typo

...or fold a piece of paper (using recorded chinese whispers) to create an origami monster...

Å99

op.... don't believe the disinfo being posted here. Jesus, born of a virgin IS the messiah in Islam. Christians deny it because it takes away their monopoly over Jesus, and they falsely claim that the mahdi is the messiah. In Islam, only Jesus has the title of al-Masih, which means the messiah. As for the antichrist, he is the second beast aka false prophet, known as Dajjal in Islam. Both christianity and islam hold that he would be killed by Jesus.

gladtobehere
So what happens when the alleged Messiah appears and he isnt the "right one"?
Can we expect even more discontent? Will this future event be a reason for more turbulence?

The New Testament declares (frequently) that Jesus will return, and indicates that the event will bring with it the final judgement and the winding up of the present form of the world.
Therefore it would be obvious who was right, and there would be no more time left for any disagreements.

sk0rpi0n
op.... don't believe the disinfo being posted here. Jesus, born of a virgin IS the messiah in Islam. Christians deny it because it takes away their monopoly over Jesus, and they falsely claim that the mahdi is the messiah. In Islam, only Jesus has the title of al-Masih, which means the messiah. As for the antichrist, he is the second beast aka false prophet, known as Dajjal in Islam. Both christianity and islam hold that he would be killed by Jesus.

i can prove my case, using both the Quaran and the bible.

Can you prove yours?

And exactly where was I wrong about where the mahdi was supposed to be coming from? Theres videos all over youtube where muslims through down prayers on paper down the grate where he is believed to be coming FROM.

I gave facts, scriptures & interpretations. What have you offered that wasn't already said?

reply to post by schadenfreude

i can prove my case, using both the Quaran and the bible.

First off.... learn to spell the name of the books you claim to be "using". I'm pretty sure you would dismiss anybody who says "Biebel" instead of "Bible".

Either way, you cant prove anything because the Quran declares Jesus as the Messiah

And exactly where was I wrong about where the mahdi was supposed to be coming from?

There is nothing in the Quran about the Mahdi. The bit about the "well" belongs to Shia theology.... who are rejected as being heretics. In fact, the Shia version of the Mahdi is said to preach in Hebrew and what not. You might want to read up a little bit about the subject you are trying to speak about.

Also didn't Jesus, according to Christianity, rise from a "cave"? Using your methodology, one could just as well declare Jesus who rose from the "grave" i.e - cave....as the beast, that came from the abyss, aka cave. If "well" can mean "abyss", so can "grave" and "cave".

I gave facts, scriptures & interpretations.

You gave misguided opinions, misinterpretations and more misguided opinions.

reply to post by DISRAELI

The New Testament declares (frequently) that Jesus will return, and indicates that the event will bring with it the final judgement and the winding up of the present form of the world.
Therefore it would be obvious who was right, and there would be no more time left for any disagreements.

What if you are wrong, and the New Testament doesn't say that Jesus is ever coming before the world gets "wound up"?
Does then these arguments never get resolved?

I would say that waiting for Jesus to arrive to solve theological questions means they will never be solved, since I see no indication that we will be meeting Jesus and God as long as the universe exists.

As I was saying earlier, it was an old mythology that the universe was all local, meaning there was a big disc that the earth sat on, surrounded by an ocean and a dome containing the sky, and the stars were torches attached to that dome. In that view, the universe was likely to be destroyed easily by something like a flood, which would be the things holding it together coming loose. They believed that it was inevitable that some day the universe would break down to its fundamental elements, and when that happened, God would judge everyone who had lived in that former "universe".
We understand now that this scenario will never play out, though there could possibly be a natural disaster that could kill all human life on this planet.
So, this hypothetical "Day of the Lord" is not anything that will actually ever happen.