Viktor Grebennikov and his beetle wing powered levitating platform.

First, I know other topics have been posted about this but I've not seen anything recent so I decided to start another.. this time I'm trying to offer a possible explanation.. I don't buy all of Grebennikov's claims, like his platform being able to fly, but who knows.. if my thought is correct, it's possible.. but I don't think he'd have much control.

At ANY rate.. first.. a video presentation that show's him conducting his experiments.



Ignore a lot of the outrageous claims, I first thought magnets or something but I no longer think that, what stuck with me is the structure of the beetle's wing cover and the hair like things that were found.

I originally thought the videos were hoaxed, but then in the last few years others have played around and found beetle covers that react similarly.

This video is in Russian, so someone feel free to translate if you can, but he's demonstrating the same odd behavior



In this next video I had my "ah HA" moment.. he's using ladybug-like beetle wing covers.. ( a size reference, I know it's not a ladybug ) .. in the first half they are on paper and you can notice a little bit of repelling, but not much.. then he rubs down this other surface which I'm sure creates a lot of static.. they behave very oddly ..



So I think what might be happening is that beetle wing covers, maybe not all, but some.. because of the unusual structure and hair like, whatever it is, causes them to be hyper sensitive to static.. this in turn can cause a sort of pseudo levitation .. the unusual thing to me is that when static is present it usually PULLS things towards whatever is statically charged ( static cling anyone? ) .. these covers seem to be repelled by it ..

At any rate, I think static is the main thing when it comes to this phenomena ..

Anyone have any opinions? where I live I've not seen a beetle in a long time or I'd be willing to try this out myself.. I don't think there's anything otherworldly or paranormal about it, but I do find it extremely interesting.. what say you, ATS?

Fascinating. This is a first for me. Thanks.

I see what you are saying about the static electricity. At times with the "ladybug wings" it seems as if the concave shape disperses the static around its curvatures in ways that remind me somewhat of airflow around an airplane wing.

Beyond this beetle brain, but wanted to bump.

The GUT
Fascinating. This is a first for me. Thanks.

I see what you are saying about the static electricity. At times with the "ladybug wings" it seems as if the concave shape disperses the static around its curvatures in ways that remind me somewhat of airflow around an airplane wing.

Beyond this beetle brain, but wanted to bump.

edit on 26-9-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

Much appreciated, and yeah it's an odd phenomena to me.. a more science minded person might have a better theory than me, but I think something like this would warrant some actual study. According to the Wikipedia article on Viktor, scientists rejected all of his claims.. it doesn't say anything about whether anyone actually attempted to scientifically challenge him.

We can tell that there's something to it at least, even if only on a small scale.

Just FYI, I found this information when I was looking for information on how to build an ioncraft, or "lifter" ..

Don't be shy folks I got 4 stars and 3 flags but one reply... I definitely would love some people to weigh in.. even if it's to debunk it, I'm science minded to begin with.. I'm usually the debunker.. but having said that, I again stress I don't think there's anything otherworldly going on.. what might be going on is just some insect's way of harnessing static for propulsion .. if that's what's going on, it could be useful if we could adapt that and perhaps improve on it..

reply to post by miniatus


We have beetles out where I live, but I will have to find a dead one, can't pull them off live ones... i'd make a terrible scientist as I can't kill anything to do an experiment.

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by miniatus

 

We have beetles out where I live, but I will have to find a dead one, can't pull them off live ones... i'd make a terrible scientist as I can't kill anything to do an experiment.

I agree with you there, I don't like taking life.. and ironically Viktor apparently killed many of these beetles to do what he did, yet he didn't divulge the breed because he wanted to protect them.. I can understand that from the science perspective, the death of a few hundred beetles in the name of scientific study is far better than the death of millions/billions because of curios people looking to try it at home.. Either way, while I understand it.. I'd feel guilty about it either way.

One person's response was that they capture and breed them for study rather than capturing them and killing them from the wild.. that way the wild population wouldn't be damaged.. scientifically, that makes sense.

reply to post by miniatus


Well, I am an animal lover, and couldn't possibly breed them just to study and kill them. Like I said, I'd be a lousy scientist if my job involved animals and testing.

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by miniatus

 

Well, I am an animal lover, and couldn't possibly breed them just to study and kill them. Like I said, I'd be a lousy scientist if my job involved animals and testing.

Understood.. I don't like it, but I understand it .. we'd not be where we were without it though, sadly..

regardless, do think study of this phenomena is called for, and if there has been, I'd like to be directed to the results.. it'd be mind boggling if this were an unknown phenomena .. there's the off chance it's known and mundane but not highly cited .. I really don't know, and so far nobody seems to.

Looks exciting, but I use to do the same thing when I was a kid by rubbing paper and tearing tiny pieces of paper on that sheet and watch them dance around like than.

Its called Static Electricity, and it does like gravity/magnetism, have strange properties.

Being beetle wings makes no difference i would think.

Telsa wanted to harness Static electricity.

gort51
Looks exciting, but I use to do the same thing when I was a kid by rubbing paper and tearing tiny pieces of paper on that sheet and watch them dance around like than.

Its called Static Electricity, and it does like gravity/magnetism, have strange properties.

Being beetle wings makes no difference i would think.

Telsa wanted to harness Static electricity.

Well my entire point was to attribute it to static.. did you read all of it? I don't disagree.. just saying that was the entire point of my post but the static repulsion is the odd thing... static attracts, doesn't repel ... so while I attribute it entirely to static, as I said in the post... if you read .. it's still an odd phenomena to me

I'm not scientist, there may be cases where static repels.. and if it does, then that must be what's going on.. I still think it warrants study.. I've never seen this in nature, have you? arrogant if you've not

reply to post by miniatus


WOW



Love this sort of stuff mate. Cheers.

fenian8
reply to post by miniatus

 

WOW

Love this sort of stuff mate. Cheers.

Thanks, me too .. I rarely post, I'm normally the debunker.. I just wish more discussion happened .. I think this thread has officially died sadly.

reply to post by miniatus


Like you, I concider myself science minded with one general rule being that everything is based on common sense (ie- 1 +1 = 2, an apple is red and a banana is yellow, etc). So, not being 'book-smart', this allows me to run wild with my imagination trying to figure some things out. This also leads to that old saying of 'knowing just enough to be dangerous'.

Now to the subject at hand-
I truly believe your concept deserves merit and some 'learned-ed' person(s) ought to do some study into this and explain the physics in words that I cannot even pronounce.

I noticed in your op that you begin to get befuddled on the idea that static electricity is an attractive force, me too! I did a quick search on static electricity and found that what I had been taught, along with many others, is the shocking part, the attractive force, done by physically causing an imbalance between two materials and then seeing how they try to balance themselves out.

With that in mind. along with your concept, lets go one step further. Remember the balloon sticking to the wall experiment? One is loaded with +'s and the other with -'s (not actually, the wall is neutral or 'balanced') and the balloon sticks. Well let's eliminate the wall part and use another balloon loaded with +"s. They repel each other but still this is static electricity.

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_electricity#Causes_of_static_electricity]

Electrons can be exchanged between materials on contact; materials with weakly bound electrons tend to lose them while materials with sparsely filled outer shells tend to gain them. This is known as the triboelectric effect and results in one material becoming positively charged and the other negatively charged. The polarity and strength of the charge on a material once they are separated depends on their relative positions in the triboelectric series. The triboelectric effect is the main cause of static electricity as observed in everyday life, and in common high-school science demonstrations involving rubbing different materials together (e.g., fur against an acrylic rod). Contact-induced charge separation causes your hair to stand up and causes "static cling" (for example, a balloon rubbed against the hair becomes negatively charged; when near a wall, the charged balloon is attracted to positively charged particles in the wall, and can "cling" to it, appearing to be suspended against gravity).

A charged object brought close to an electrically neutral object causes a separation of charge within the neutral object. Charges of the same polarity are repelled and charges of the opposite polarity are attracted. As the force due to the interaction of electric charges falls off rapidly with increasing distance, the effect of the closer (opposite polarity) charges is greater and the two objects feel a force of attraction. The effect is most pronounced when the neutral object is an electrical conductor as the charges are more free to move around. Careful grounding of part of an object with a charge-induced charge separation can permanently add or remove electrons, leaving the object with a global, permanent charge. This process is integral to the workings of the Van de Graaff generator, a device commonly used to demonstrate the effects of static electricity.

With your concept of the beetle's wings, why couldn't the beetle generate it's own static? Would make a lot of common sense why a beetle can't fly straight, it keeps getting pulled in every direction trying to get balanced out with its surroundings.

just thought about it - Why do we call them wings? They're not aerodynamic, we understand that. Let's call them 'static generators'.

-... know just enough to be dangerous...

reply to post by geo1066


You're right, I entirely didn't think about the two balloons.. the thing is though that the beetle would need to be able to adjust it's charge, positive, negative.. otherwise it would repel against some surfaces and attract to others.. to maintain flight it'd need to be able to adjust, right?

The problem is this is just the beetle's wing covers, not attached to a living beetle.. so how could it make those adjustments? maybe when it's dead it's locked into a repel static position?

I honestly have no good theory.. but I do agree that the beetle could be producing it's own static, that could be what it's inner wings are actually doing.. rather than producing actual lift.. they are producing static.

Wild theories!

Out of this world....

I noticed the reference to the egyptian winged symbol. I must say...I see a bug with wings now. I've never noticed that before.

It's called the scarab this bug...


Very fascinating. Maybe the ancient people knew this property of the bug. Maybe they used it to levitate stones. That would explain some stuff. Maybe.


I remember the scene from the movie "The Mummy". There was a scene were bunch of those bugs were attacking the tomb raiders...and now when I think about it...they looked kinda like...gliding over the floor. They moved fast and effortless.

MarioOnTheFly
Out of this world....

I noticed the reference to the egyptian winged symbol. I must say...I see a bug with wings now. I've never noticed that before.

It's called the scarab this bug...


Very fascinating. Maybe the ancient people knew this property of the bug. Maybe they used it to levitate stones. That would explain some stuff. Maybe.


I remember the scene from the movie "The Mummy". There was a scene were bunch of those bugs were attacking the tomb raiders...and now when I think about it...they looked kinda like...gliding over the floor. They moved fast and effortless.

You're right actually.. well about Scarabs .. they exhibit the same properties, one of the first "home" experiments I saw done in one of the videos was with scarab wing covers.. and the reason was for exactly what you said, the person doing the test believed that particular beetle was a good candidate since the egyptians held it in such high regard.. but yes they do this same exact thing.

The beetle that Viktor used is obviously not a scarab though.. the term I keep seeing is Elyse but when I search I don't find anything.. unfortunately much of the video I find is Russian or Italian ..

In fact this is one that is in english!

reply to post by miniatus


Would be nice to know which bug exactly it was.

If this is not some kinda scam...it's very exciting.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


I just edited my last reply to include another video.. done with a june bug.. interestingly this guy mentions static as well..

pretty sure that's the key to this!

reply to post by miniatus


well...static electricity is everywhere around us...so that wouldn't be a problem

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Not at all, and if you were to have a material that could repel static, or alternate between repelling and attracting, you could harness that ... seems it could work for something as small as a beetle, not sure how it would work for something that had serious mass.

That's the one of the parts of Viktor's claims that I have a very difficult time believing, that he harnessed enough covers to create a flying platform