Do Less Guns Really Mean Less Crime?

reply to post by Daedalus


Less than in USA... That is the sad fact.

US total intentional homicide rate is 4.8 per 100 000 people out of which 3.6 are killed with firearms while 1.2 are killed with other weapons.

UK total intentional homicide rate is 1.2 per 100 000 people out of which 0.25 are killed with firearms and 0.95 with other weapons.

To put these both in comparison, lets round these into 10 000 000 people.

In US out of 10 000 000 people 360 are killed intentionally with firearms and 120 with other weapons (+ 30 unintentional homicide with firearms)

In UK out of 10 000 000 people 25 are killed intentionally with firearms and 95 with other weapons. (+1 unintentional homicide with firearms)

reply to post by PhoenixOD


accidentals would also go down if more people were taught responsibility by their parents....should we make this about parenting?

i'd love to see you site examples...hell, start a thread EVERY day, to showcase the latest mass killing with guns, that you claim happens on a daily basis in this country....

when are people going to finally understand that just because they don't like something, and that it's not for them, doesn't mean that NOBODY should have it?...honestly, that's rarely a valid position to hold...

i'm honestly surprised some idiot hasn't gone with the nukes and fighter jets argument yet.....that usually shows up in the first 3 pages of one of these.....though, i shouldn't cheer too loudly...instead of tanks and fighter jets, i keep seeing "what about the children"...is that the new cop-out argument for people who can't back up their ludicrous anti-gun rhetoric with facts?

god almighty, i wish people here would just grow up...

Beavers
Ok, I've had enough of trying to reason with your emotional intelligence and it is time for some facts.

.....did the guy who was just spouting "for the kids" and "gun owners don't love children" rhetoric just make a snide remark about arguing with "emotional" intelligence, and try to switch to facts?

And this is where I exit this thread. With hypocritical "logic" like this, this guy is a shoe in as a politician. Quick, stop posting here and get to campaigning, the world needs you!

reply to post by Chazam


or, it could have something to do with the fact that the courts have ruled that the police are under no obligation to protect the citizens....

i saw someone here post that police officers in america are more like historians....they show up after the crime has been committed, and in solving the case, they document the occurrence of a crime, and maybe someone is apprehended, and put in jail....it's actually kind of an odd system, when you really think about it..

it's not that we're not sure of our society's ability to protect itself, it's that we KNOW that police are not employed to protect us, and some dumbasses thought it was a great idea to illegally infringe upon our society's constitutionally guaranteed right to defend itself....

but that's another one of the many problems with the current state of american society....people are afraid of personal responsibility....they've been conditioned by TV to believe that everyone should be treated like the pampered morons they see on the reality shows.....personal responsibility isn't cool....it should be someone else's responsibility to make my food, and clean my clothes, and protect me from harm, and so on, and so on....of course, those idiotic attitudes vary from person to person....but the general consensus is that "someone else should do it"...

Arm the people, and they will protect themselves...

reply to post by TerraLiga


i can't speak for anyone else here, but i like the English just fine....

lots of history, culture, and the language i speak originated there.....

the majority of English people are lovely, i'm sure...my problem is with the snooty, arrogant, opinionated ones.....people like piers morgan (whom, by the way, i know is only over here, because you lot hate him more than we do), who spew their lies and opinions, and try to pass them off as fact....misguided, mentally lacking, holier-than-thou busybodies, who have nothing better to do than to dictate to another country how they should do things....and they do it by espousing the perceived virtues of their system, at the expense of all the facts, and they contrast it, by putting down all other systems, and tossing people under the bus, for having a differing opinion..

i don't hate the English (i'm sure the Scots, and Irish will hate me for saying that )...or the Aussies....i hate people from other countries, who tell me that mine is s**t, because we do things a little different...if i wanted to live in a country that had your laws, i'd move to one of your countries....

Some more mush in the mud.... (I love this).

Armies are 100,000 + people with firearms... Thank God they're never wrong!

Needed to add some more:

Imagine people who are armed with 100,000 + arms per 100,000 people. Since they don't agree with each other on many fronts - they absolutely need to be armed - this will protect those people from ever disagreeing fatally.

School kids are a really good set of rational people to arm and teach that arms solve their problems. If it doesn't keep people from fighting - what good are they?

reply to post by LadyLurker


that is absolutely untrue...it's been happening for something like 80 years....you only hear about it so frequently now, because there is an agenda to be pushed, and the media, and government want it to appear to be a new problem..

I'm not sure if less guns equals less crime, but most crimes are committed without guns. Also a Ban on Guns does not equal less gun violence.

Crack & Heroin are not Legal. There are No Crack marts or Heroin outlets, these drugs are Banned, Illegal, Socially Frowned Upon, but can not be stopped from reaching Millions every year. More people die from Overdoses in 1 day then all the mass shootings combined in the last 5 years. That's a lot of people Dead, a lot of families Ruined, yet seemingly Impossible to stop.

When we tried to outlaw Alcohol we saw an Incline in Alcohol use. We spurred on the gangster era, Created Al Capone , Corruption among st officials became common & the Alcohol never stopped flowing.

Daedalus
reply to post by PhoenixOD

 

i'd love to see you site examples...hell, start a thread EVERY day, to showcase the latest mass killing with guns, that you claim happens on a daily basis in this country....

Its a bit more than a claim. Help yourself, all 272 mass killings for 2013 are listed here

2013 272 mass shootings

reply to post by dokuno


what i'm curious about is WHY you would be afraid to be a police officer in an environment where responsible, law-abiding citizens were carrying firearms....it occurs to me that a climate like that would make your job as a cop MUCH easier, as criminals would be far less likely to attempt to victimize people, if they have a reasonable fear that they may be killed, or grievously wounded in the attempted commission of a crime....

it astounds me how often people believe that the simple introduction of a gun into the equation immediately means that violence and bloodshed will occur....the element people always leave out is ill-intent...without ill-intent, the chances of violence and bloodshed are greatly diminished...

this is now, and has always been true: the gun is not the problem...the mindset of the operator is...

ETA: also...we DO have a concealed-friendly law....it's called the 2nd amendment to the constitution of the united states.....

it never occurs to most people that state gun laws are actually illegal....states are not allowed to make laws that infringe upon the constitutionally guaranteed rights of the people...we have the right to keep and carry arms, as per the constitution....any law that says we can't is in violation of the constitution, and is therefore illegal...

Hi guys,

The politics of disagreement is what really hurts human beings.... not the lack of guns.

Every where you turn in a world going to chaos, there is growing politics of disagreement.. and that is going to hurt.

Not that I can solve the worlds' problems - far from it... I can only help exacerbate it with one more mouth to feed on a planet that's convinced that global warming is responsible for food price increases... though I suspect that there is more than a little corporate greed in there - which could have been solved if I had lived on a farm... that day is coming around the corner.

Maybe if the US govt were hellbent on having everyone owning firearms, they'd also be ok with not being the police of the world and allow all other nations to have nukes.... something for those who believe in firearms solutions to think about - now that is what we should call "safe". (Not IMHO, though).

Disloyalty is supreme! Bring on the chaos! And the jobs that comes with it of course (except the dangerous kinds - like army work - can't say I support the world's leadership to the death).

I seemingly have way too much to write - just not enough time space or space in my time.

Beavers
reply to post by Auricom

 

I disagree.

It takes a lot more rage to stab someone to death than it does to pull a trigger.

unless you know this from personal experience, then you're speculating....that's also known as making stuff up....facts, or you're full of it..

Plus you can't stab someone from 100 yards away.

and unless you're an accomplished marksman, you're not hitting someone with a pistol from that distance, either...and don't trot out the "scary black guns" (also referred to by the uneducated as "assault rifles") either, because a statistically insignificant amount of gun crimes are committed with that class of weapon..

How many kids watching Batman would have got away from the looney with the guns? How many people would have just knocked him out and overpowered him if he just had a hockey stick?

had theater-goers that night been armed, the event would have been over much sooner, and most likely a lot less innocents would have been snuffed out...

and i see that you still can't shake the urge to try and manipulate people VIA emotion, to make your argument....ever wonder why that is?

it's because your argument is bunk, so you hafta appeal to emotion, and feign concern, in order to manipulate people into agreeing with your argument, and demonize those who disagree with you....because, after all, if you're not against guns, you're for shooting infants in the face, AMIRITE?

what the hell ever happened to the roll eyes emoticon? we need that back, there is so much in here worthy of it's use...

reply to post by Beavers


gun companies? as in like manufacturers?

you are aware that most manufacturers don't sell directly to the public, right?

you are aware that "illegal guns" come from the black market, and that the black market has existed since pretty much the beginning of time, right?

laws have done a bang-up job of stopping criminals, and shutting down that black market, haven't they?...wow, i wish i'd thought up this strategy DECADES ago....i'd have won a nobel prize...

I WANT MY ROLL EYES SMILEY BACK!

BTW:

In a climate of increasing chaos - which is where things go when leadership are not in control (in more ways than one), one has more and more severe conflicts as the world drops to the ground around you.... Hence the fear of extremely armed populaces in such circumstances.

Do they have to be so rational?!!!! Who are you going to support, when everyone points a gun at everyone else? The rational, irrational? Katrina is a great example of how people pushed to extreme disorder can behave erratically and out of control with firearms.

I heard this story of Chicago once (can't verify it): For half an hour the electricity got cut... (imagining the rest, though this was a re-enacted true story that I write) in one of suburbs was it? 30,000 armed robberies. 5000 dead people..... You get the picture - don't have time to look it up, cause I don't remember enough. You probably know this to be true if you haven't heard of it.

Someone might care to fill in - if it is more conveniently on your mind - or if your search is more fruitful than mine.

Certainly guns finish the problem fast - especially with a highly armed populace.... In India, clashes only kill thousands. They are only short of guns - but certainly had other implements and gas bombs - are gas bombs more powerful a deterrent, or grenades?

Beavers
reply to post by 200Plus

 

other countries with democracy that don't have guns haven't escalated into the horrors you speak of, why would the US?

Jamaica?

as to why would the U.S? ...plain and simple: power....

BTW: It looks like those who want guns badly enough, manage to get them, lord knows why they arm police - it doesn't work (LEAVE THE GUNS IN THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO WANT THEM!), or you need to pay more taxes to increase police and police state rationale!

Here's to police state rationale! The police are trained and therefore the courts of law can be on the streets.

Apparently, Mexico has highly armed police force who take care of politics too - and they're all masterminded by "ONE" individual, so disagreement amongst them seems to be low - maybe also because they're armed? (I personally think it is because they have trained thinking - but that is not what people need to be afraid of - it is the highly superior armaments that bring about rationale - a chemical reaction between brain and bullet material apparently). How resonating!

You could always increase the demand for guns by physically proving the point that enough people are turning crazy - of course.

reply to post by Beavers


and then you do that.....

when you folks can't back up your argument with facts and figures, you resort to emotional appeals, insults, lies, and implying that guns, are somehow analogous to genitalia...

can't you just accept that YOUR dislike of guns is not necessarily right for everyone, and stop trying to lie, and shame people into giving up their right to defend themselves?

Im sorry but I am almost 100% convinced that mass shootings are directly linked to the use of anti-depressants. Before 1980, mass shootings were almost unheard of and boom, you have Prozac.

ssristories.com...

I also don't care about your children. You're the dumb# who got your dumb# kid killed. So that argument doesnt win me over.

Gun grabbers are asking me to do one thing, put the responsibility of my own protection into the hands of the government...the same people who run the DMV.

Take responsibility for your own safety. Quit giving that responsibility to someone else. The extent of your safety is based on how you choose to defend yourself. That is your choice, I don't feel it is my place in any way to say how you wish to do so. All I ask in return is that you extend the same courtesy.

This is what the left does not understand.

Beavers
reply to post by 200Plus

 

the gun however WAS invented to kill people.

and animals...let's not forget animals....

i mean, bow-hunting is great, and all...but hunting with firearms is just easier...i suppose if you were really good, you could hunt with an axe, or rock on a stick, but seriously, the gun is easier...

the gun's only purpose is not JUST to kill people....it is a tool, and like any tool, it can be used for a multitude of purposes

for instance...i can use a screwdriver to loosen to tighten a screw...or i can use it to pry things apart, or open, i can open a box with it, i can break glass with it, break up ice, bang on a bucket, and make music with it, or, i could stab someone until they die with it....ANY tool can be used to kill....

Beavers
reply to post by UnmitigatedDisaster

 

if there are no guns, people can't be shot.

it's black and white.

more guns aren't going to make someone with a gun less likely to attack you, if they want to attack you and know, or assume you have a gun, they're just going to attack you from a distance!

you live in fear of someone attacking you, so you buy a gun. we hear about stories of people's children finding and using their guns in anger or accident all the time. This stuff isn't made up by crazy people like me that don't want to see people hurt, it happens because guns are legal and every retard has one.

so you would rather people be stabbed, or bludgeoned to death? so it's ok if someone ends up in the ICU, barely clinging to life, so long as they weren't put there by someone with a tool you don't approve of?

you keep going with the idiotic attack from a distance argument....you've obviously never been the victim of the kind of crimes we're talking about....rape happens close, robbery happens close, break-ins happen close, mugging happens close....honestly, if you're in an environment where lots of people have guns, and you decided to attack someone from a distance....say you wanna rob them....you shoot them....if you don't kill them, they shoot you, and now you're either dead or injured......Or, you shoot them, kill them, go to get their wallet, and you're dead before you get to it, because one of the other armed citizens has ended you....so your crime was a complete waste, because you did not achieve your goals, which are to not get hurt, not get dead, and get the money...

honestly man, you gotta start thinking these things through...