Do Less Guns Really Mean Less Crime?

reply to post by Maxatoria


Shhh you will sharter the American delusion.

We all know here in the UK we get our homes invaded every month by armed gangs that our local lords dont keep in check and as soon as we step outside our peasent dwellings we get stabbed and raped only to be rushed to our evil commie NHS hopsitals only to have a death pannel deny our treat and leave us to die.

O how we all long for American Freedom, please Obama come and save us from our tyrant Queen elizabeth II

/Sarcasm

reply to post by 200Plus



rubbish, when have you and your guns ever done anything to protect us against tyrannical government? Nothing!

the government has become tyrannical regardless of your weapons and meanwhile more innocents die whilst you selfishly hide behind the 2nd.

Isnt accidental death by guns the number one cause of death for children in the US? Im pretty sure that statistic would go down if there were way less guns around.

As for violent crime? No i doubt it would go down at all , people dont become violent just because they have guns so removing them wouldnt change that base rate. But mass killings by guns (theres been one almost every day this year in the US) would go down and accidental death by firearms in children would go down.

reply to post by Beavers



I would say guns have done exactly what the second amendment was designed to do. I mean when was the last time you saw a massive govt sweep imprisoning people who don't agree with the them in the US? When was the last time you seen tanks and military turned on protesters or people against US policy? I'll give you some time to answer.....

Now lets look at other countries? Syria, China, Germany, Russia, Africa ETC. I mean I could really go on for days listing examples on how Gov force was used against defenseless people. Not unless you're saying history is just a lie??

PhoenixOD
Isnt accidental death by guns the number one cause of death for children in the US? Im pretty sure that statistic would go down if there were way less guns around.

Actually, you're wrong.

Death Among Children

Accidents as a whole are the number one reason. Automobile accidents are actually the number one accidental death.

The automobile accounts for the largest number of these accidental deaths. Make sure that all infants and children use the proper child car seats, booster seats, and seat belts. Other top causes of accidental death are drowning, fire, falls, and poisoning.

reply to post by Beavers


LMAO - I don't hide behind anything. Well, I do when it's smart to but that's besides the point.

I have traveled the world. From dirt floors to palace halls, from the most modern cities to the most primordial jungles. I have seen the worst man has to offer and I have seen the best man can become.

I have been shot several times. With pistols as well as long guns.
I have been beaten with blunt objects from hockey sticks to police batons to baseball bats.
I have been stabbed several times. With knives, sticks, even a broken Jack Daniels bottle.
I have had several vehicles blown up under me and I even had a building fall on top of me.

We live in a violent world. If your means of defense is living on your knees then more power to you. I can never understand the docile approach to life, just as you cannot understand the steadfast approach. When my time finally comes I will meet it head on rather than looking over my shoulder.

What I can't for the life of me understand is why people other than Americans want to decide the fate of my nation. Your people tried to tell us what to do twice. It worked out in our favor both times. Why? Americans with guns, LOL had to throw that out there.

Beavers
reply to post by 200Plus

 

rubbish, when have you and your guns ever done anything to protect us against tyrannical government? Nothing!

the government has become tyrannical regardless of your weapons and meanwhile more innocents die whilst you selfishly hide behind the 2nd.

I's not sure if your an American or not... to me you sure don't sound like one, but.... The amount of civilians that own firearms have constantly been a deterrent from the "government" acting more heavily handed than they would like to. Think of how messed up our government is right now.... now imagine how much more rampant our government would be in an unarmed America ( I picture Obama wiping his ass on live TV with the original document of our Constitution... with a big cheese eating grin on his face)... I cringe to think of it.

MysteriousHusky
It is my belief that gun collectors do not pose as much of a risk to national security as those with a single handgun or rifle or shotgun. It is also my belief that such weapons have no place in a super-sized city, with all the stresses city life brings with it.

Check out this USA Today article from Feb 2013.

Rest assured there are LEGITIMATE reasons for owning a firearm if you live outside a super-sized metropolis.

Hunting

Self protection

Recreational Target Practice ~

See interesting hunting chart below for example. Not many city folks go out hunting and when they do it's most likely outside the city.

You forgot the most important reason of all, "a stop gap to tyranny".

It says nothing about " for hunting" or "sport shooting" in the second amendment, or the federalist papers.

Hey All,

Just thought I would chime in would my opinion, even though I am sure it's nothing unique and has probably been mentioned a few times.

No, less guns does not necessarily mean less crimes. What it could mean, is less crime involving guns.

In my opinion crime and the weapons used are independent variables. Crime would still occur and the weapons utilized will vary. What we will see is a shift to the next available weapon.

I may even expect crimes to increase as result. Criminals would become embolden upon the assurance that their chances of encountering a firearm would be less likely from a law a abiding citizen.

My two cents.

reply to post by GuidedKill


when has this happened in the other countries with democracy???

the UK and Australia mentioned earlier don't have these problems and their citizens don't get drunk and go around killing each other with firearms either.

next bad excuse please...

7000 a year?

Here's an interesting test article called The Correlation Between Guns and Homicide Rate The following screenshots are taken from said article:




Some of the feedback:


__________________________________________

Agree with author? Or is this just disinformation?

Beavers
reply to post by 200Plus

 

rubbish, when have you and your guns ever done anything to protect us against tyrannical government? Nothing!

the government has become tyrannical regardless of your weapons and meanwhile more innocents die whilst you selfishly hide behind the 2nd.

Unfortunately it's quite possible you will get to see what happens to tyrannical government when it meets face on with a nation of patriot gun owners. Hasn't happened yet that's true but at the rate our civil liberties are being destroyed and freedoms trashed it may not be long.

Bassago

Beavers
reply to post by 200Plus

 

rubbish, when have you and your guns ever done anything to protect us against tyrannical government? Nothing!

the government has become tyrannical regardless of your weapons and meanwhile more innocents die whilst you selfishly hide behind the 2nd.

Unfortunately it's quite possible you will get to see what happens to tyrannical government when it meets face on with a nation of patriot gun owners. Hasn't happened yet that's true but at the rate our civil liberties are being destroyed and freedoms trashed it may not be long.

It's actually kind of sick that someone who feels we should give up all guns also acknowledges that the government is indeed corrupt.

He also complains that and armed population hasn't done anything about it.

So, Beavers, you want to see open rebellion and massive loss of life in the USA? I thought you were all about saving lives?

reply to post by MikeNice81


Ahh i see i was worng..its the SECOND leading cause of death in the US after car crashes..that makes it all right then i guess, its hardly even worth considering.

firearm injury in the United States has averaged 32,300 deaths annually between 1980 and 2007
It is the second leading cause of injury death after motor vehicle crashes.

source

Of course the non fatal injury by gun stats are way higher still.

Bassago

Beavers
reply to post by 200Plus

 

rubbish, when have you and your guns ever done anything to protect us against tyrannical government? Nothing!

the government has become tyrannical regardless of your weapons and meanwhile more innocents die whilst you selfishly hide behind the 2nd.

Unfortunately it's quite possible you will get to see what happens to tyrannical government when it meets face on with a nation of patriot gun owners. Hasn't happened yet that's true but at the rate our civil liberties are being destroyed and freedoms trashed it may not be long.

This is why I started a similar thread that comes at this from the perspective of terrorism response and deterrence. An admittedly sideways approach but, a valid argument that is supported by the rhetoric of the police state itself.

We haven't even started a thread that argues the constitutional right aspect of all of this. At that point, we are unlikely to hear much from the peanut gallery (or maybe we will hear more!).

KingIcarus

SadistNocturne

TinkerHaus
Despite trying over and over to show that crime rates and gun ownership rates do no correlate, I was unable to convince these people to even CONSIDER that guns are not the reason violent crimes happen.

Next time you're discussing this with folks from the UK, remind them that their own parliament a few years back was considering a banning of kitchen knives, as they were the highest likely weapon to be used in crimes of passion.

I can't be bothered getting into a discussion about guns, but I'm intrigued as to this proposed ban on kitchen knives in the UK. I can help thinking that'd have been a pretty big story here in Britain - but I don't recall anything of the sort.

You got a UK based link to that story? Or is this one of those stories that the cuckold British media daren't touch, unlike their bold American equivalents - much like the Sharia courts that fill every corner of our green and pleasant land?

edit on 23-9-2013 by KingIcarus because: (no reason given)

Honestly, I'm not sure at all how far along i got into Parliament...but I remember it being relatively headline news on the Globe & Mail, Sunday Times(or is it post), Daily Mail (yeah, a tabloid)...

I'd say this was within the last five years....and the one thought I couldn't get out of my head was how a mate of mine that we'd been out drinking with on new years eve the night before showed up dead the next morning with his head caved in with either a cinder block or a baseball bat.

To say that gun control has made your country safe is something of a fairy tale...is it less likely to occur as the result of the IMMEDIACY of pulling out a gun and shooting vs the slightly longer and more effort it takes to kill someone with a knife or a baseball bat or a cinderblock, sure...but my theory has always been...we are animals at heart...and if someone is driven to that point emotionally, they'll use a freaking crayon, two paracetamols and a plaster to get the job of killing someone done....know what I mean ?


Here are *some* links * found searching for UK parliament baning kitchen knives crime of passion

lastresistance.com/906/england-considering-ban-on-kitchen-knives/

www.ukyouthparliament.org.uk... (page 20 of the pdf)

news.bbc.co.uk...

I'm thinking the final one, the oldest one (2005) is the most precident setting...and what originally caught my attention. I mean, for christ's sake, I took a knife from the states to a good mate of mine in Cumbria as a gift...dear lord...the Q&A I had to through at customs...and then, to only find out that my mate cannot even take it out of his house for fear of it being confiscated by the police...and that blade was just under four inches!!! Not even a gravity assist open, either....

My basic point is, ban all you want...ban away...people will start bludgeoning each other with their bare limbs when it comes to crimes of passion and homicide....when are folks going to realize that when you get behind the wheel of a car you've got a weapon of close a ton of metal that can demoilish a human being in seconds flat...no chance of living through it...hey, lets ban those too!!!!

Oh, and in america...hahahaha...just go to Washington D.C....particularly SE DC...and pay attention to the armed figures you see on the rooftops...no uniforms...not plain clothes...and the cops won't go into those neighborhoods without SWAT backup....I lived in a *nice* neighborhood in DC...Friendship Heights...a Catholic Priest was shot in the face with a .45 over the collection plate.

Gun control ABSOLUTELY works....for the criminals.

- SN

KingIcarus

SadistNocturne

TinkerHaus
Despite trying over and over to show that crime rates and gun ownership rates do no correlate, I was unable to convince these people to even CONSIDER that guns are not the reason violent crimes happen.

Next time you're discussing this with folks from the UK, remind them that their own parliament a few years back was considering a banning of kitchen knives, as they were the highest likely weapon to be used in crimes of passion.

I can't be bothered getting into a discussion about guns, but I'm intrigued as to this proposed ban on kitchen knives in the UK. I can help thinking that'd have been a pretty big story here in Britain - but I don't recall anything of the sort.

You got a UK based link to that story? Or is this one of those stories that the cuckold British media daren't touch, unlike their bold American equivalents - much like the Sharia courts that fill every corner of our green and pleasant land?

edit on 23-9-2013 by KingIcarus because: (no reason given)

Honestly, I'm not sure at all how far along i got into Parliament...but I remember it being relatively headline news on the Globe & Mail, Sunday Times(or is it post), Daily Mail (yeah, a tabloid)...

I'd say this was within the last five years....and the one thought I couldn't get out of my head was how a mate of mine that we'd been out drinking with on new years eve the night before showed up dead the next morning with his head caved in with either a cinder block or a baseball bat.

To say that gun control has made your country safe is something of a fairy tale...is it less likely to occur as the result of the IMMEDIACY of pulling out a gun and shooting vs the slightly longer and more effort it takes to kill someone with a knife or a baseball bat or a cinderblock, sure...but my theory has always been...we are animals at heart...and if someone is driven to that point emotionally, they'll use a freaking crayon, two paracetamols and a plaster to get the job of killing someone done....know what I mean ?


Here are *some* links * found searching for UK parliament baning kitchen knives crime of passion

lastresistance.com/906/england-considering-ban-on-kitchen-knives/

www.ukyouthparliament.org.uk... (page 20 of the pdf)

news.bbc.co.uk...

I'm thinking the final one, the oldest one (2005) is the most precident setting...and what originally caught my attention. I mean, for christ's sake, I took a knife from the states to a good mate of mine in Cumbria as a gift...dear lord...the Q&A I had to through at customs...and then, to only find out that my mate cannot even take it out of his house for fear of it being confiscated by the police...and that blade was just under four inches!!! Not even a gravity assist open, either....

My basic point is, ban all you want...ban away...people will start bludgeoning each other with their bare limbs when it comes to crimes of passion and homicide....when are folks going to realize that when you get behind the wheel of a car you've got a weapon of close a ton of metal that can demoilish a human being in seconds flat...no chance of living through it...hey, lets ban those too!!!!

Oh, and in america...hahahaha...just go to Washington D.C....particularly SE DC...and pay attention to the armed figures you see on the rooftops...no uniforms...not plain clothes...and the cops won't go into those neighborhoods without SWAT backup....I lived in a *nice* neighborhood in DC...Friendship Heights...a Catholic Priest was shot in the face with a .45 over the collection plate.

Gun control ABSOLUTELY works....for the criminals.

- SN

reply to post by MysteriousHusky


Husky you do realize that the most violent BIG CITIES in america are all cities with the strictest gun control right?

Washington DC? Yeah their police are now under orders to arrest visitors to the city who accidentally bring along SPENT CASES OF AMMUNITION.... Murder rate.... HORRIFIC

Chicago? SUPER tight gun laws ..... and this year I believe they had more murders by february than the state I grew up in averages in a YEAR!


The reality is the american public needs to GROW UP! You can't take a complex societal issue like rampage killings and say well if we do this ONE THING it will magically go away! That's not how it works! It will never work like that! And you are stupid if you believe this will ever change! I'm sorry if that offends people, but banning guns, even if it did end rampage killings completely (which it wouldn't ... don't believe April 2012 CHINA man goes crazy with a KNIFE kills 25! This is about 22 more people than the average GUN CARRYING american rampage killer racks up with oh so dangerous and easy to get firearms!) It still would not be worth it! Guns really do provide for the safety of people that society cannot and WILL NOT ever dedicate the resources to adequately protect any other way!

Not only that, but you are a fool if you think the reason your neighborhood is so nice is some universal good will towards men and mulitcultural kumbaya spirit that pervades the place! The reality is that crime rates in suburbia are so low most of the time because criminals know that chances are quite a few suburbanites OWN GUNS! That's right Virginia.... they don't victimize YOU because you MIGHT be packing or have something you keep in your night stand!

This is why out of all of these anti gun crusaders that want the whole world declared a gun free zone, for the children of course!, Not ONE of them will put up a sign in their front yard declaring their property a PROUD GUN FREE ZONE! Because deep down in their heart of hearts they KNOW it would be a stupid thing to do and it would MAKE THEM A TARGET!!!

So if it's not smart to declare your place of residence a gun free zone... why is it smart to declare anywhere else one again? Especially places where we keep kids?


Oh yeah and if you want to stop something that ends an appalling number of american lives every year.... how about focusing on doctors prescribing the wrong meds or doing the wrong procedures..... because even by the doctors' own estimates around 90,000 people a year die from it and other sources are starting to think it could be up to 4 TIMES that many that die from this! So .... how about we work on that? I mean if by the lowball estimates NINE HUNDRED TIMES MORE PEOPLE die that way every year than die from rampage shootings every year.... and 3 times as many people as die from ALL gun related deaths every year! Shouldn't we maybe focus on that instead? ......

Plus at least if we focus on that we would be in territory where the measures we take would have statistically valid effects on reducing patient deaths from mistakes, whereas even the DOJ and etc admit that the proposed gun control measures will at best NOT AFFECT crime rates at all, and at worst MAKE THEM WORSE.

oh yeah and one other thing no one in the antigun crowd seems to be willing to acknowledge...


How were the rights of women and minorities respected in the era before guns?

Do you really think it will be any different this time around? Especially when they just want to take guns from your average people not the police and governments of the world too?

The reality is it is NO COINCIDENCE that the rise of the firearm and especially the rise of the AFFORDABLE and EASILY OBTAINABLE BY THE GENERAL POPULACE firearm coincides pretty directly with things like the fall from it's iron fisted grip on power of the catholic church and it's pet royals....

God may have declared all men and women equal... he may have even made it that way too...

But realistically if it weren't for john moses browning mikhail kalashnikov and others we'd still live in a time where Might and physical brawn makes right!

I don't want to go back to those times! Neither should you!