Half of Americans believe that people can be possessed by the Devil.

reply to post by WarminIndy

A four year-old little girl in the hills of Perry County, Kentucky? But I can tell you that her mother had been involved in a local satan worshiping cult. I can tell you the paranormal activity surrounding that house. But a four year-old little girl as the victim of EM Frequencies?

I don't think you quite grasp yet what we are saying. In the cases of possession, a visually observed physical change occurs. There is no EM Frequency that can physically change the larynx of a person so they speak completely differently.

Satan is a cop-out. He has never been proven to exist, and none of the manifestations recorded throughout history have ever been fully investigated to the point that we can concretely determine both the nature AND the cause of the manifestation.

I will say that though I am not a religious person, I do consider myself a spiritual person. My beliefs have been formed through my life experiences. I used to date a girl who could see ghosts very clearly, and I've seen her get possessed many times, though thankfully not as bad as some of those cases out there. Now for those that will want to claim she has a mental illness, I won't lie, because of her life experiences, she probably does have some mental illness. But I don't believe this was because of her illness, but I can see it helping cause her mental illness. I'll explain.

When I first met her, we loved talking about the paranormal. After a few weeks, she told me that she could see ghosts. Now, I've met quite a few people who claim that. I'm not talking about those that see one every so often, but people claiming they see them everywhere. So initially, I was hesitant to believe. Until she passed my test.

When I was younger, my grandpa died in his house. After that, it always felt like he was around. If you were doing something he didn't like, such as climbing on the fence, you could literally feel eyes staring angrily at you from the bedroom window where he died. You knew immediately to stop. Yes, yes, that could just be me being weird. But one night when I was staying the night at my grandmas, I woke up feeling someone in my room. As I peered towards the door, I saw a white silhouetted figure watching me. So in a tired haze, I called out "Grandma?". Once I did, the figure turned, and walked out my door. So, I decided to follow it, and it walked through the living room, into my grandma's room. Her door was closed. It had a bad squeak if you opened it, and there was no sound.

Now, I never told my ex that my grandpa died in his house. So, after dating a few weeks, I took her to meet my grandma. We hung out for a little bit, then headed on out. She was silent after we left. I noticed it, and asked her what was wrong. She told me she didn't want to say it, because she didn't want to freak me out, but she saw an older gentleman standing in a corner(near the room he died) glaring at her with his arms crossed, as if he didn't want her in there. So then, I told her about my grandpa. That was what proved her gift to me.

Point I'm getting to, is that I've seen her get possessed many times. Out of nowhere, her body would hunch over a bit, she would start stepping forward in this weird manner, and laugh in this weird voice, over, and over, and over. If you tried talking to her, she would stare at you and laugh. Whenever she would try to speak, it sounded like it was in tongues. Now, not any language I recognized, so maybe it was just babble. If I let it go, it would last for around 30 minutes. Sometimes, I would slap her across the face(softly, but firmly), and it would shock her back to normal. She never remembered anything when she was like that. My theory on it, is maybe she was a bit like Whoopi Goldberg in Ghost. Because she could see, and ghosts knew it, maybe they tried hopping in. I think the reason it was mostly just laughter, is because maybe they didn't think it would work, or didn't know what to do once inside, and were just overly excited. I honestly don't know. Maybe this part was just a mental illness, but too many things say otherwise. I even once saw a bottle of vitamins fly off a table and hit her in the back of the head. She got mad at me like I threw it, but I was across the kitchen, nowhere near the bottle. She knew it, too.

So OP, I do have to agree with people who say possession is probably mostly mental illness. But there are those that are real, and you really shouldn't scoff at them because you don't believe. Science may not be able to prove them yet, but in time, it will. A lot of this stuff is just science that science hasn't proven yet. Seriously, if you could hop back in time 300 years with a portable DVD player, and show people a movie, they'd all call you a witch and burn you alive. But yet here we are, with all of it working, and the knowledge on how it actually works.

The bible I read didn't really depict Satan/Devil/Snake in a bad light. What would a possession even look like? If the devil possessed someone wouldn't they just become skeptical and logical? Perhaps with a greater knowledge of good and evil? Since the worst thing the devil did in the Christian bible was tempt man to make choices?

I think if I were scared of any type of possession it would be that of an angel, then you risk the possessed becoming a mass murderer in the name of the good lord. I don't remember Satan ever ordering mass murder anywhere in the bible, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Either way, I don't believe in those stories anymore than I believe in Zeus and Athena. Honestly I'd much rather the Greek myths to be true because let's be honest...the goddesses sound way hotter.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

A four year-old little girl in the hills of Perry County, Kentucky? But I can tell you that her mother had been involved in a local satan worshiping cult. I can tell you the paranormal activity surrounding that house. But a four year-old little girl as the victim of EM Frequencies?

I don't think you quite grasp yet what we are saying. In the cases of possession, a visually observed physical change occurs. There is no EM Frequency that can physically change the larynx of a person so they speak completely differently.

Satan is a cop-out. He has never been proven to exist, and none of the manifestations recorded throughout history have ever been fully investigated to the point that we can concretely determine both the nature AND the cause of the manifestation.

edit on 21-9-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Well, you don't have to believe me and you are in essence calling me a liar. But why would I make this up? For attention? I get enough attention anyway, I'm not into all of that narcissism and histrionics. I told people this so they could maybe get an idea that when it comes to possessions, you aren't dealing with something cute and simplistic.

The next time I run into a possessed person, I will make sure to have my camera and call the American Psychiatric Association right away so they can come down to investigate.

I get the idea that you have never seen it, but why invalidate my experience? Why insinuate that I would make up lies about this? Aren't I putting my own reputation on the line? I don't care that you don't believe, I know what happened. And to dismiss every experience from everyone just means you have limited your mind to only believe what is right in front of you at this moment.

OrphanApology
The bible I read didn't really depict Satan/Devil/Snake in a bad light. What would a possession even look like? If the devil possessed someone wouldn't they just become skeptical and logical? Perhaps with a greater knowledge of good and evil? Since the worst thing the devil did in the Christian bible was tempt man to make choices?

I think if I were scared of any type of possession it would be that of an angel, then you risk the possessed becoming a mass murderer in the name of the good lord. I don't remember Satan ever ordering mass murder anywhere in the bible, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Either way, I don't believe in those stories anymore than I believe in Zeus and Athena. Honestly I'd much rather the Greek myths to be true because let's be honest...the goddesses sound way hotter.

There are times when people do make things up or mistake something, but of the few that I have seen, they are very real.

I have to judge what I see also and I am fairly good about questioning everything. But at the same time I realize that I don't know everything. There are things that I am skeptical about, alien abductions and astral projections are just two of them. I attempt to be very rational about things.

But to witness a four year-old child speak to me in the voice of a grown man, cursing at me, and seeing this child's head picked up and slammed into the floor by something unseen, there is no rational explanation for it. I would love for someone to suggest I take a lie detector test or put me under hypnosis, because this is something I still see today, it happened in 1991.

I can't prove that it happened, all I can say is that I witnessed it.

ya i wonder why

WarminIndy

OrphanApology
The bible I read didn't really depict Satan/Devil/Snake in a bad light. What would a possession even look like? If the devil possessed someone wouldn't they just become skeptical and logical? Perhaps with a greater knowledge of good and evil? Since the worst thing the devil did in the Christian bible was tempt man to make choices?

I think if I were scared of any type of possession it would be that of an angel, then you risk the possessed becoming a mass murderer in the name of the good lord. I don't remember Satan ever ordering mass murder anywhere in the bible, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Either way, I don't believe in those stories anymore than I believe in Zeus and Athena. Honestly I'd much rather the Greek myths to be true because let's be honest...the goddesses sound way hotter.

There are times when people do make things up or mistake something, but of the few that I have seen, they are very real.

I have to judge what I see also and I am fairly good about questioning everything. But at the same time I realize that I don't know everything. There are things that I am skeptical about, alien abductions and astral projections are just two of them. I attempt to be very rational about things.

But to witness a four year-old child speak to me in the voice of a grown man, cursing at me, and seeing this child's head picked up and slammed into the floor by something unseen, there is no rational explanation for it. I would love for someone to suggest I take a lie detector test or put me under hypnosis, because this is something I still see today, it happened in 1991.

I can't prove that it happened, all I can say is that I witnessed it.

I would recommend reading every article on this website: Psychohistory.com

What you are describing sounds like a kid who has a history of child abuse at some point. I'm sure you won't read any of the articles on that website and will continue to believe that the devil infiltrated the child, instead of looking at the rational explanation of child abuse that might have caused the behavior you're describing.

Even IF someone believes in devil possession, to believe that a four year old would be possessed goes against the whole concept of childhood innocence and puberty being the gateway to the tree of knowledge...but I digress. Believe what you want.

OrphanApology

WarminIndy

OrphanApology
The bible I read didn't really depict Satan/Devil/Snake in a bad light. What would a possession even look like? If the devil possessed someone wouldn't they just become skeptical and logical? Perhaps with a greater knowledge of good and evil? Since the worst thing the devil did in the Christian bible was tempt man to make choices?

I think if I were scared of any type of possession it would be that of an angel, then you risk the possessed becoming a mass murderer in the name of the good lord. I don't remember Satan ever ordering mass murder anywhere in the bible, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Either way, I don't believe in those stories anymore than I believe in Zeus and Athena. Honestly I'd much rather the Greek myths to be true because let's be honest...the goddesses sound way hotter.

There are times when people do make things up or mistake something, but of the few that I have seen, they are very real.

I have to judge what I see also and I am fairly good about questioning everything. But at the same time I realize that I don't know everything. There are things that I am skeptical about, alien abductions and astral projections are just two of them. I attempt to be very rational about things.

But to witness a four year-old child speak to me in the voice of a grown man, cursing at me, and seeing this child's head picked up and slammed into the floor by something unseen, there is no rational explanation for it. I would love for someone to suggest I take a lie detector test or put me under hypnosis, because this is something I still see today, it happened in 1991.

I can't prove that it happened, all I can say is that I witnessed it.

I would recommend reading every article on this website: Psychohistory.com

What you are describing sounds like a kid who has a history of child abuse at some point. I'm sure you won't read any of the articles on that website and will continue to believe that the devil infiltrated the child, instead of looking at the rational explanation of child abuse that might have caused the behavior you're describing.

Even IF someone believes in devil possession, to believe that a four year old would be possessed goes against the whole concept of childhood innocence and puberty being the gateway to the tree of knowledge...but I digress. Believe what you want.

I have read this before. And yes, I am looking at it now also. Sex abuse of children does terrible things to them that they can't ever get over. And yes, they do act out in ways that we very often do see as a result of sex abuse. But I would not say that what I witnessed was her acting out.

Even if sex abuse were to blame, we cannot say it happened in every case. I know it did in the woman I talked about in the other post, but to say it happened to the four-year old, I can't just say that was the cause. I would be accusing the parents of something that might not even be true. And I never once said her mother had taken her to the cult. I do not believe the little girl was a victim of ritual sex abuse, if she had since then, that's another thing. And not all sex abuse victims exhibit extreme behavior.

The author says here....

In determining the actual incidence of childhood sexual abuse in modern societies, the main problem is that one must rely upon witnesses who have enormous emotional difficulties in reporting what they find - far more so than with any other psychohistorical subject I have encountered.

So why is it acceptable to rely on witnesses that become he-said, she-said in psychiatry, but not in the paranormal? Is it because we have said that only psychiatrists are the holders of the truth, so every witness must be true because the psychiatrist accepts it as such?

If a person is thought to be possessed and the question were asked of them "were you sexually abused?" then that becomes suggestive and leading. But it's very hard to see a child tormented in this way, and then assume something that might not be the case for her. I can't read into her history and say that's what it was. I have met a lot of people who were sexually abused who didn't exhibit anything remotely like what I saw from her.

You probably have met a lot of people that you didn't know had been abused when they were children because they never told you about it. But at that point, it merely is like I said before..he-said, she-said, because now there is no evidence to prove, only their memories of it. And I am sure there are people who you thought had been abused as children, but they had not been.

It's a terrible thing, but we cannot just assume everything is a result of abuse. Look at what happened to that couple that were wrongly accused of ritual sex abuse of children in their care? That destroyed them.

How many times have you been somewhere and seen a child jumping on furniture and throwing toys around and their mothers are completely exasperated when the child does not behave? You wouldn't look at that mother and say she abuses her child at home, that's why it acts out.

What I witnessed was not a child acting out.

WarminIndy

OrphanApology

WarminIndy

OrphanApology
The bible I read didn't really depict Satan/Devil/Snake in a bad light. What would a possession even look like? If the devil possessed someone wouldn't they just become skeptical and logical? Perhaps with a greater knowledge of good and evil? Since the worst thing the devil did in the Christian bible was tempt man to make choices?

I think if I were scared of any type of possession it would be that of an angel, then you risk the possessed becoming a mass murderer in the name of the good lord. I don't remember Satan ever ordering mass murder anywhere in the bible, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Either way, I don't believe in those stories anymore than I believe in Zeus and Athena. Honestly I'd much rather the Greek myths to be true because let's be honest...the goddesses sound way hotter.

There are times when people do make things up or mistake something, but of the few that I have seen, they are very real.

I have to judge what I see also and I am fairly good about questioning everything. But at the same time I realize that I don't know everything. There are things that I am skeptical about, alien abductions and astral projections are just two of them. I attempt to be very rational about things.

But to witness a four year-old child speak to me in the voice of a grown man, cursing at me, and seeing this child's head picked up and slammed into the floor by something unseen, there is no rational explanation for it. I would love for someone to suggest I take a lie detector test or put me under hypnosis, because this is something I still see today, it happened in 1991.

I can't prove that it happened, all I can say is that I witnessed it.

I would recommend reading every article on this website: Psychohistory.com

What you are describing sounds like a kid who has a history of child abuse at some point. I'm sure you won't read any of the articles on that website and will continue to believe that the devil infiltrated the child, instead of looking at the rational explanation of child abuse that might have caused the behavior you're describing.

Even IF someone believes in devil possession, to believe that a four year old would be possessed goes against the whole concept of childhood innocence and puberty being the gateway to the tree of knowledge...but I digress. Believe what you want.

I have read this before. And yes, I am looking at it now also. Sex abuse of children does terrible things to them that they can't ever get over. And yes, they do act out in ways that we very often do see as a result of sex abuse. But I would not say that what I witnessed was her acting out.

Even if sex abuse were to blame, we cannot say it happened in every case. I know it did in the woman I talked about in the other post, but to say it happened to the four-year old, I can't just say that was the cause. I would be accusing the parents of something that might not even be true. And I never once said her mother had taken her to the cult. I do not believe the little girl was a victim of ritual sex abuse, if she had since then, that's another thing. And not all sex abuse victims exhibit extreme behavior.

The author says here....

In determining the actual incidence of childhood sexual abuse in modern societies, the main problem is that one must rely upon witnesses who have enormous emotional difficulties in reporting what they find - far more so than with any other psychohistorical subject I have encountered.

So why is it acceptable to rely on witnesses that become he-said, she-said in psychiatry, but not in the paranormal? Is it because we have said that only psychiatrists are the holders of the truth, so every witness must be true because the psychiatrist accepts it as such?

If a person is thought to be possessed and the question were asked of them "were you sexually abused?" then that becomes suggestive and leading. But it's very hard to see a child tormented in this way, and then assume something that might not be the case for her. I can't read into her history and say that's what it was. I have met a lot of people who were sexually abused who didn't exhibit anything remotely like what I saw from her.

You probably have met a lot of people that you didn't know had been abused when they were children because they never told you about it. But at that point, it merely is like I said before..he-said, she-said, because now there is no evidence to prove, only their memories of it. And I am sure there are people who you thought had been abused as children, but they had not been.

It's a terrible thing, but we cannot just assume everything is a result of abuse. Look at what happened to that couple that were wrongly accused of ritual sex abuse of children in their care? That destroyed them.

How many times have you been somewhere and seen a child jumping on furniture and throwing toys around and their mothers are completely exasperated when the child does not behave? You wouldn't look at that mother and say she abuses her child at home, that's why it acts out.

What I witnessed was not a child acting out.

You didn't read all of the articles. There are other types of abuse besides sexual abuse. You quoted a line out of one of the arguments being made without the context of the rest of the text. I'd appreciate you come back in two or three days and comment, after you've read the articles instead of cherry-picking a quote. It is very telling that you'd believe demonic possession before believing the child was abused in some way. Child abuse has been documented much farther back than Christian demonic possessions. Either way, good luck. I truly hope you read all of the articles thoroughly.

Edit: Here is one example of a study on child exorcisms/abuse etc. from the UK

217.35.77.12...

Ah, the Scientism lay-clergy condemning the non-believers as ignorant heathens once again. The utter blasphemy of those who don't kneel before the test tube altar.

The mods should just rename threads like this to "God Sucks And Christians Are Retarded". That's the only point you're trying to make anyway.

reply to post by NthOther


No where in the original post did he promote "scientism" or say that "(the christian) God sucks" and "Christians are stupid".


The original post did mention the possibility of mental illness for some of these individuals, and he/she would be correct because for some cases of "demonic possession" it turns out that they just had schizophrenia. Everything else was your mind adding in stuff (unless he/she clarified these things on another post in this thread).

Deetermined
reply to post by winofiend

 

Because 57% of them think it's ok to believe that.

I'm not understanding your point. What's wrong with believing it?

Umm, well, sure nothing.

I grew up, that's all..

Seems a little odd for adults to believe in make ups... But hey, swings and roundabouts!

What do you think the illuminati are? ....

They're the bridge between demonic realms and humans. Demon possessed humans. That's how they're able to control everything and everyone at the upper levels. Mind you that's a different kind of possession, the kind where these, which are most likely fallen arch angels, are possessing them and helping them to gain control most everything. The possession that happens to ordinary people is usually just to try and kill that person and or have that person kill others.

reply to post by BobAthome


Oh miley cyrus is looking pretty gnarly there.

But you see, who can prove this. Only those who care not to, or don't have the ability to. Again. As with all things 'religious'... it's only as real as you believe it.

Doesn't make it physically, tangibly, actually, real. It's just a bunch of chemical and electrical activity in the brain telling you a story. A scary story. That implies you must be good or the bogey man will take your mind and eat your soul.... more of the same.

"Leave the lights on momma!!!"

Us humans are pretty amazing.

We have a god who loves us sooo much that he wants us to be in heaven with him - he made us, but then says if we don't love him, we go to the dark place.

We have a devil who wants our souls sooo much that he sends his minions, in all their forms, to corrupt us and make us to naughty things.. things that are naughtier in the past than now, but that's our declining morals no doubt.

Yet none of it happens where it can be proven because, why then you remove the criteria for belief. BELIEF.

I believe in energy. I don't believe n a conscious energy.

demons are all in your mind. otherwise, I await evidence to the contrary, but no doubt will be met with obtuse reasoning and explanations as to why *I* am not worthy of such things....

spartacus699
What do you think the illuminati are? ....

They're the bridge between demonic realms and humans. Demon possessed humans. That's how they're able to control everything and everyone at the upper levels. Mind you that's a different kind of possession, the kind where these, which are most likely fallen arch angels, are possessing them and helping them to gain control most everything. The possession that happens to ordinary people is usually just to try and kill that person and or have that person kill others.

Are they controlling you?

Can't you like, shoe them away?

I did. Worked a treat. Now I'm 100% illuminati free. Sans Illuminati. Bereft of all NWO. I am rid of all globalist overlord influences. Not a jot. Not one iota. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero. Nary a nasty nuisance left to corrupt my social standing.

It was a simple as "there is nothing to fear except that which I invent."

and bam, like a hard to remove grease stain, it lifted righ.. oh who am I kidding, I never had any such delusions...