95 Year Old Veteran Murdered by Police for Refusing Medication

reply to post by roadgravel


Yes, that's the police statement, which is pretty much at odds with every other non-police account of the events of the evening.

And after doing some digging, I found there are two versions of events: The police version, and a new picture that raises questions of whether John Wrana was killed unnecessarily.

Not surprising they would spin it in their favor.

"Attempts were made verbally to have the resident comply with demands to drop the articles, to no avail," the police statement reads. "The resident then armed himself with a 12-inch butcher type kitchen knife."

But lawyer Grapsas says that Wrana's family never saw a knife in his room and that staff also told him Wrana didn't have such a knife.

"So where did the knife come from?" Grapsas asked.

emphasis added

Having worked mental health, I have been on the 'business end" of administering court ordered meds. I have no qualms about doing it, either. I have never once seen an abuse of that process with my own two eyes.

BUT, we never called the police. Sure, sometimes we had to send 10 guys in to use a "show of force" to get acquiescence. Sometimes even then the 10 of us would have to wrestle them down for their shots. One guy was a legendary badass that we did that with many times. He was crazy as you can imagine, and tough as nails.

We never hurt these people. We were trained to do this without even bruising from rough handling. We did our job, and everyone walked away no worse for wear (other than maybe a rugburn as you moved around on the ground a bit). PMAB was an ultra effective methodology.

I would have gotten this man medicated by myself. Likely with just verbal intervention. I can't imagine what in the hell happened here.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


While I admire your ethical conduct when entrusted to enforce medical regimens on mental patients, this guy was in a 'retirement home'.

reply to post by yeahright


Yes, exactly.

Even if he didn't have a knife, what if he just didn't want to take his medication?

I think everyone involved bares some blame for this but, there is simply no excuse for the apparent wanton killing of this elderly man by the police whoever brought them into the equation.

reply to post by greencmp


If this were my Father or ANYONE close to me there would be HELL to pay!!!

The London Metropolitan Police responded recently to two men armed with large knives and a pistol (these were the beasts who had murdered a soldier). The police shot them both....and took them into custody alive.

It seems that when cops in the US draw their weapons, someone will end up dead.
It must be policy. Surely it can't be poor training, or poor discipline.

When the policy is shoot to kill, common sense will never prevail and people will be killed.

Policy. That's where the problem lies.

reply to post by Badgered1


That is in fact a major point here, they used so-called 'less-than-lethal' weapons thus proving once again the oxymoronic label and the carelessness with which these tools are deployed.

Originally posted by Badgered1
The London Metropolitan Police responded recently to two men armed with large knives and a pistol (these were the beasts who had murdered a soldier). The police shot them both....and took them into custody alive.

It seems that when cops in the US draw their weapons, someone will end up dead.
It must be policy. Surely it can't be poor training, or poor discipline.

When the policy is shoot to kill, common sense will never prevail and people will be killed.

Policy. That's where the problem lies.

A) They are not trained to "wound." They are trained to shoot center of mass, which is the center of chest (which also happens to be the biggest target), and 99% lethal. Stated policy is not to kill (unless, possibly, there is a true threat), but it it's much easier (see point B):

B) There's less paperwork if someone dies versus simply being injured. Not to mention, in the case of actual criminals, the long drawn out process of investigation, trials, etc. It's so much easier if the person just dies. That's kinda the unstated rule, I believe.

Not to mention, training is preservation of the officer first and foremost, everyone else be damned.

Ever notice how when a cop is shot or injured the media devote every minute possible to it as if one of THE most honorable, loyal, serving, and supreme person has been hurt by the big bad criminals? Yep.

Indoctrinating the masses. So when they kill someone it's justified in the public's mind.

Originally posted by Badgered1
The London Metropolitan Police responded recently to two men armed with large knives and a pistol (these were the beasts who had murdered a soldier). The police shot them both....and took them into custody alive.

It seems that when cops in the US draw their weapons, someone will end up dead.
It must be policy. Surely it can't be poor training, or poor discipline.

When the policy is shoot to kill, common sense will never prevail and people will be killed.

Policy. That's where the problem lies.

I am not an officer, nor have such training. But if I have to draw down on your, your life is in grave danger. If i have to fire, i am shooting to kill.

My gun is not to scare you. It isn't a prop, a prank, or a toy. It is a tool that I use to feed and protect my family.

Shooting someone isn't a trick shot scenario. When i fire, i will fire because it is grave and necessary. And I will do it with extreme prejudice. Likely all 6 shots to the center of mass.

Originally posted by greencmp
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

While I admire your ethical conduct when entrusted to enforce medical regimens on mental patients, this guy was in a 'retirement home'.

Well, then let me add this:

I spent an additional 2 years working on a locked alzheimers unit in a nursing home. The nursing home should never accept a patient on court ordered medications, unless that patient is administered via IV or PEG tube (they are incapacitated due to illness, essantially).

The risk of taking on a patient with court ordered meds in a nursing home is extreme. From just minor skin tears, to this old man dying....it is not meant for "retirement homes".

Either you have staff trained to handle it, or you don't.

The level of incompetence in this case is stunning. No critical thinking skills were used.

Who called the police in the first place? They should be fired.

The senior officer should have told the nursing home that police don't mediate med disputes. This was not a matter for the police.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

But if I have to draw down on your, your life is in grave danger. If i have to fire, i am shooting to kill.

Do you think you would have the need to draw down on a 95 year old man in a walker if he wasn't pointing a firearm at you? Even if your weapon was loaded with bean bag rounds?

First of all people in nursing homes have the right to refuse their medications. Or ever hear of dropping the issue and trying again later? Even bringing the family into the equation sometimes can be the solution.

The point here is that he should have been treated with much more dignity and respect. If he had Alzheimers then force is not the solution, ever.

No matter what the circumstances, this man did not deserve the outcome he met with. I hope his family sues the home as well as all involved.

I weep for him and all of mankind. This is beyond depraved treatment for someone his age.

This is beyond me,I worked in a nursing home long time ago ,and yes there are some minor problems with some residents,but this THIS IS MURDER!!

The death of an old man is NEVER a tragedy.

reply to post by Salander

What man or women anywhere could Justify tasering a 95 year old period.

Who could watch and do nothing?

Who could put on a badge and see fellow officers do this and nothing?


Id be liable to take a shot at these officers in the heat of the moment were I to witness such a thing, probably end up next to the old man.

reply to post by Salander

The death of an old man is NEVER a tragedy.

Who gave Ban Ki-moon an account here?

Originally posted by greencmp
I really don't understand this, it makes me want to puke.

95 Year Old Veteran Murdered by Police for Refusing Medication

Police decided instead to taser the war hero and follow it up with a beanbag to the guts. Officers reported that a knife had been pulled, but no knife was found on the scene. The police used a riot shield, shotgun and taser on a 95-year-old man in a walker who arguably presented no threat to anyone but himself.

I can't think of a single excuse for behavior like this. It isn't even worthy of the intimidation conspiracy concept since they probably weren't doing it for publicity.

It is just sadism, pure and unadulterated evil. I guess these are tears of rage.

edit on 7-9-2013 by greencmp because: (no reason given)

Its exactly this sort of story that sickens me so much that I have to look to my brothers and sisters in America(me being english) and scream "for f*ck sake why do 'we the people' let this INSANITY happen on OUR watch".
These stories are becoming far too frequent.
The police tazer 11 yr old naked girl walking down the freeway, what, less than a month ago?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And what killed a small part of me about that thread was that people were actually defending the police actions.
Well another small part of me has died on reading this story.

Protect and Serve? More like Neglect & Disturbed.

Its starting to become a little bit more than a few bad apples. Its more like an organized effort by TPTB to recruit some of the most imbalanced, sadistic and psychopathic c*nts to work in the police service, because Im pretty sure this # wasnt so prevalent 20 yrs ago.

Im not only extremely saddened by this story, but I think, if this is how we are treating our elders now I dread to think how they will get treated 20 yrs from now, when its my turn to be dependent on those that I and my peers brought into this world, and what we moulded them into.