Hubble Finds Mystery Alignment of 'Butterfly' Nebulae

Hubble Finds Mystery Alignment of 'Butterfly' Nebulae

This is interesting. Using the Hubble telescope and the European Southern Observatory's New Technology Telescope (or NTT) to view more than 100 planetary nebulae near the center of our galaxy, astronomers have found an unexpected alignment of many Bipolar planetary nebulae -- which are "butterfly"-shaped or "hourglass"-shaped nebulae. The long axes of these nebulae tend to align with the plane of the galaxy.

Astronomers have used the NASA/ESA Hubble Space Telescope and ESO's New Technology Telescope to explore more than 100 planetary nebulae in the central bulge of our galaxy. They have found that butterfly-shaped members of this cosmic family tend to be mysteriously aligned — a surprising result given their different histories and varied properties....

..."This really is a surprising find and, if it holds true, a very important one," explains Bryan Rees of the University of Manchester, one of the paper's two authors. "Many of these ghostly butterflies appear to have their long axes aligned along the plane of our galaxy."

What makes this to be a surprising find is that astronomers don't see any interaction or past history among these nebulae. However, it seems to me that there could be some mechanical process in the creation of these nebulae that is reacting with some previously unknown structure to the galaxy...

...i.e., there is some aspect of the manner in which the galaxy works that is causing this alignment.



Sources and more information:

Bizarre Alignment of Planetary Nebulae

Hubble Finds Mystery Alignment of 'Butterfly' Nebulae

Wikipedia -- Bipolar Nebulae

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Or it could be very simple. They are near the center of the galaxy, so therefore, they are more subject to polarization.

The forces that push and pull against the stars would be strongest at the center of the galactic plane. Therefore, the stars rip in half from the pull and the push and "bang": Polarized Nebulae Aligned with the center of the galactic plane.

reply to post by TarzanBeta


The polarization does seem to reflect a polarizing force from within the galactic center. Considering that they suspect that a super massive blackhole may exist at our galactic center, this tilt of the nebulae is another indicator of a strong center. What makes it interesting though is that, instead of all the material being pulled toward the center, it's butterfly shaped, regardless of composition or size. That's the interesting part.

Well, that sure is interesting. It reminds me of one of those crop circle images of the hourglass that I've seen around the internet.

This one:

WhiteAlice
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

The polarization does seem to reflect a polarizing force from within the galactic center. Considering that they suspect that a super massive blackhole may exist at our galactic center, this tilt of the nebulae is another indicator of a strong center. What makes it interesting though is that, instead of all the material being pulled toward the center, it's butterfly shaped, regardless of composition or size. That's the interesting part.

Probably not. The hourglass shape of a bipolar nebula is NOT thought to be material being "pulled" toward "something else" by that "something else". This shape is most likely due to bipolar outflow -- in which the star at the center of the nebula ejects material along its north and south poles. Therefore, the stuff is not being pulled away from the star at the center of the nebula by some other object or force, but rather the star itself is ejected the material in jets.

Similar polar jets can be found emanating from the accretion disk of a black hole. The mechanism causing these jets associated with a black hole (called "relativistic jets") is different than a bipolar jet, but there are similarities. In the case of a black hole accretion disk, the disc is rotating around the black hole so rapidly that the material in the disc gets super-hot (due to friction) that it emanates X-ray jets perpendicular to the rotation (which would be at the poles).

Similarly, it seems there is some reason that stars in hourglass/butterfly nebulae are ejecting particles in the direction of its north and south poles. If that is happening, then that means that the north and south poles of the star maybe tend to align with the galactic plane.

I speculate the galactic center is shooting out blackholes at the speed of light,striking the stars and causing the phenomena. Or maybee its magnetic galactic field lines.

Originally posted by Americanist

Similarly, it seems there is some reason that stars in hourglass/butterfly nebulae are ejecting particles in the direction of its north and south poles. If that is happening, then that means that the north and south poles of the star maybe tend to align with the galactic plane.

It's only a surprise to "scientists" because they can't accept new ideas or comprehend the fact that we are way off base with our current accepted cosmology.

Just watch the video, there is an accompany paper. I'll post the link when I find it or you can look through my post history I've posted it before.

When you see that this structure also governs atoms, human cells, etc… your mind will start to race.

Originally posted by vind21
...It's only a surprise to "scientists" because they can't accept new ideas or comprehend the fact that we are way off base with our current accepted cosmology...

Of course science can accept new ideas. Astronomers can be "surprised" by these findings, but still "accept" them. They are surprised because it does not fit with what they think they knew. However, all that means is that they need to question/tweak what they think they know...and that's exactly what science does.

You seem to not understand what science is...
Science is ALWAYS looking to ask questions about what we think we know about nature. That's exactly what the definition of science is all about -- science is all about questioning what we think we know about the nature of the universe around us.

When science finds some new data that does not fit with their current understanding, they then adjust their current understanding to fit the new data. That's they way humans have moved forward in their understanding of how the world/universe around us works.

I really understand what science is. I do it for a living (again, finally )

I also understand the frustration of people who have idea worth exploring getting no support from the field.



The reason I made the quoted statement above is because the explanation for these structures has been around for awhile and this finding just really adds to the confirmation, yet instead of acknowledging that it may be support for a new model they simply say "unexpected" which is crap I know those guys, they were fully aware of the implications.


I am not referring to Lapoint in that sense as he is gaining huge support for his model.

reply to post by vind21


Perhaps I misunderstood you, but it sounded as if you thought that scientists cannot accept new ideas. If I misunderstood, I apologize, but there are too many people who come here on ATS saying that "science is arrogant because thinks it knows everything" (not that you said or implied that).

In reality, the opposite is true, and science is ALWAYS looking to new ideas. Sciences KNOWS it doesn't know everything. If Science really felt that it knew everything, then they would just stop.

Having said that, it is a difficult process to make major changes to well-established theories, but that's because the scientific process requires experimentation, proof of findings, duplication of that proof of findings, and peer review of those findings (and the method used to produce the findings).

But I would argue that the process being a difficult one is a GOOD thing. The process in place helps ensure that any changes made to our understanding of the natural world have been vetted and verified.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


And I agree, it's good that things are hard to change.

But it's a terrible thing that exploring new theories are met with jr high level mockery by "educated" people. Regardless I don't want to go down that road on this thread.

It detracts from the point that once again a "discovery" has been announced that was previously predicted by at least 4 separate theories and it is "unexpected" as if these people were unaware of the other information.

It's only unexpected from their self imposed limited view point

Perhaps when the Stars explode they produce small black holes that create wormholes toward the large black hole at the center of the galaxies. With the worm holes connecting the new smaller black holes to the larger center black hole you get the alignment.

Originally posted by Xeven
Perhaps when the Stars explode they produce small black holes that create wormholes toward the large black hole at the center of the galaxies. With the worm holes connecting the new smaller black holes to the larger center black hole you get the alignment.

Perhaps black holes are a big bunch of BS, as these observations suggest


Anyway im going to stop making inflamatory comments it's been a really long week and I don't have time to put up real links for you guys so have a good one.

reply to post by vind21


I'll definitely watch this after work. Please post that paper if you haven't already. This is my favorite scientific subject matter. Even without watching i can get an idea that our scientists really don't know anything about the way our universe functions. There must be something to this gravitational/magnetic relationship and the way that black holes or pulsars affect the galactic plane polarization, especially the closer to the galactic center. .

reply to post by JackSparrow17


I won't have time to look for a few hours. You can find the links on his face book page buried somewhere. Ill track them down they are a pretty good read and explain the actual mechanics and why these observations directly contradict black hole theory. On mybmobile its hard to provide real info sorry

Originally posted by vind21

Originally posted by Xeven
Perhaps when the Stars explode they produce small black holes that create wormholes toward the large black hole at the center of the galaxies. With the worm holes connecting the new smaller black holes to the larger center black hole you get the alignment.

Perhaps black holes are a big bunch of BS, as these observations suggest

Anyway im going to stop making inflamatory comments it's been a really long week and I don't have time to put up real links for you guys so have a good one.

edit on 6-9-2013 by vind21 because: (no reason given)

I know where you are headed Vind21 and I fully support it!
The true implications could be SHOCKING to people if they just examined things from a clean slate perspective.

I have not found La Point's paper yet, there are 2 that he has published for review in 2009 and in 2012 (I think) at least those are the one's Im aware of.

Here's a link to a paper from someone else that supports his claims independently, I WILL find his eventually.

Magnetic Propagation

Most of this stuff can be found by digging in his Face Book Page


And Before I get people saying "Prove black holes don't exists" here is the best we got:

Einstein's field equations are given by,

Gμν = Rμν - ½ gμνR = -κTμν.

According to the claims of the proponents of the Standard Model, if the energy-momentum tensor Tμν is zero, then the equations Rμν = 0 result (since the Ricci curvature R becomes zero also). However, since Rμν = 0 is inadmissible, because it violates Einstein's 'Principle of Equivalence', the energy-momentum tensor can never be zero for Einstein's gravitational field. Therefore, Einstein's field equations must take the form

Gμνκ + Tμν = 0

wherein the Gμν/κ are the components of a gravitational energy tensor. Thus, when Tμν = 0, Gμν = 0, i.e. they vanish identically - there is no gravitational field. This is an inescapable consequence of the inadmissibility of
Rμν = 0.

Source
Source2



As to the observation from hubble I am thrilled to death and the point of this thread is to discuss the observation, which I don't think you can do without some understanding of the principles shown in that video.

reply to post by vind21


No worries! I'll check those out at lunch. Real hard to do more than skim some threads on a break.

Originally posted by WhiteAlice
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

The polarization does seem to reflect a polarizing force from within the galactic center. Considering that they suspect that a super massive blackhole may exist at our galactic center, this tilt of the nebulae is another indicator of a strong center. What makes it interesting though is that, instead of all the material being pulled toward the center, it's butterfly shaped, regardless of composition or size. That's the interesting part.

You gotta remember there isn't just gravity, but centrifugal force at work. Riiiiip.