UK Media saying relationship between UK and US "Damaged"

Originally posted by SecretFace




It's down to Americans to rescue America.

I paused for a moment to reflect on the irony of your fine statement.

Couldn't give a crap if our leaders fall out or not.... or if we both get involved in all the same wars or not.

The people/citizens of both nations will always have a bond and it seems we both agree on this anyway.


Who cares what some politicians say?

Originally posted by mclinking
UK out, France in. The French will love this! Even today, they give all credit to America for D-Day and none to the Brits. From now on, the USA and France are in love.

That is not the case. As a schoolboy I was given six British graves to tend at our nearby military cemetary, boys from the Royal Inniskilling Fusilliers, four still teenagers, one aged 27 and one poor soul known only into God.

Don't you dare claim we forget about the British dead.

Don't hate America, hate our gov't.

I love my country, but I despise my so called "gov't". Theres a big difference between the two.

-SAP-

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


We do everything allowable by law. What do you suggest we do? Armed rebellion is pretty much the only option when the government knows that the majority of the population is against their decision. 91 percent of us are against it, yet the govt continues. The executive branch ignores our reps in congress. It's not a cop out, we really have no control.

Originally posted by Freeborn
It may have damaged the relationship between the two respective administrations but there is still a shared bond between the people of the two nations.

As far as I can tell the vast majority of both UK and US citizens are in agreement over Syria, we don't want to see our nations involved in yet another middle east blood fest.

The UK media will play this up in an attempt to deflect from the utter humiliation of Cameron.

I just said something similar in another thread. Its not the first ill advised adventure of a US administration we've refused to partake in. We didn't fancy Vietnam or Somalia that much either.

Although, I don't recall a Prime Minister misjudging the public mood and underestimating the intelligence of the electorate to such an extent. First time in my lifetime for sure.

The cultural links and broad strategic alignment remains through it all. It doesn't mean we aren't allies and we've still got the USAs back in most cases. We just think your current leader is a mug trying to do something very unwise. Best you give him a telling off.

As one poster remarked earlier, the relationship between the British and American people will survive any fall out between our respective governments. However, the MSM will seek to make the British people feel guilty and ashamed, and to be honest, I don't feel ashamed, I feel even more vindicated in my view that to strike at Syria is the wrong course of action.

The vote ushered in a new era for the British people, and I think it is best summed up thus...

Never again, in the field of human conflict, will so many be so conned by so few.

America needs to bring itself up to speed in this respect.

elysiumfire
I don't feel ashamed,
I feel even more vindicated in my view that to strike at Syria is the wrong course of action.

/sarcasm

Yeah, because the British have
Nothing
to do with Syria.

They were not key in the formation of modern Syria
at the end of world war 2.

/end sarcasm


Syria is their child,
and just like the Royals of old
they have disowned the bastard
because it is inconvenient to be responsible.

As much as the British public
claims they dislike the Royals
and their behavior, they sure
are acting like them.



Apparently the only person
left in the British Common Wealth
that isn't acting like a Royal,
is PM Cameron.


Mike

Oops - deleted, wrong thread!

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Actually Syria was a French Mandate and other than liberating it from the Vichy French, along with Free French forces, the UK has really had relatively little to do with Syria.

Perhaps that's why the French feel closer to this than Britain.

reply to post by mikegrouchy



Gasp! Imperial powers in middle east meddling shocker. Same old same old.

Lets make up a scenario as a thought experiment.

Maybe the cluster-fubar-proxy-war-bloodbath we have now is a result of a combination of machiavellian scheming and incompetence in fairly recent times. Not by one side. All of them, it takes a team effort to build a # pile this high.

Maybe the international community through the security council could have intervened earlier to try and force some sort of negotiated reform of the Syrian regime but didn't. Maybe imperial desires prevailed as usual.

Maybe the USA, UK, France, Gulf Arabs and probably Israel thought a nice little 'Arab Spring' could get rid of Assad and therefore weaken Iran and Hezbollah. Maybe they thought it could be accomplished on the quiet and the cheap. Stealthy deniable regime change, gotta love that right? Maybe what the public don't know wont hurt them right?

Maybe Russia as the sponsor state of the Assad regime, were not being morons, and say this all unfold. Maybe Iran (the real strategic rival of Saudi Arabia) weren't either.

Maybe they totally miscalculated the resolve and resilience of the regime and the ire of the Russians. Since they were supposed to not be involved there was little USA / UK could do in public once it all started going wrong. The Saudis deployed their pet Jihadis and made with the oil funds since they don't need to worry about appearances but they are too chicken to actually intervene directly.

Maybe the situation persisted like this for 2 years until Hezbollah went all in on the Assad side and he got the upper hand. Maybe there was a choice. Intervene directly on some pretence or watch the whole gamble fail and Assad remain in place (in hock to Hezbollah) and as a really pissed off western foe in charge of a near failed state.

Maybe thats where we are now 100,000 dead later, observing the clowns in charge looking for the pretence. Maybe the gulf states are despotic anyway so they have no difficulty with needing a pretence.

Maybe its unfortunate for the western governments that they do need to go through this spastic dance because they cant admit they were involved illegally since the start and regime change is a dirty phrase.

Maybe the rebels are desperate enough and bad enough to do anything.

Maybe the fact that the British public aren't interested in shedding a penny of coin or a pint of blood for the benefit of the 'good bad guys' is a spanner in the works.

Maybe this was all so much easier when people only had the newspaper in the morning and 2 short news broadcasts a day, curse you pesky internetz.

Maybe I should be an author with this imagination. Nah its all too ridiculous to be believed.

reply to post by Dreine


Your comments reminded me of this article, penned shortly after September 11th, 2001.

To Britain with Love

For the second time in a week, I again watched CNN with my mouth hanging wide open. Amidst the tragic history made this past week, one event took place whose unimaginable significance was unfortunately lost to most Americans. In England, with hundreds or perhaps thousands of mourners pressing the gate, Buckingham Palace played OUR national anthem instead of the time-honored Changing of the Guard.

God Bless America would have honored us greatly. America The Beautiful would have been more than enough. But England somehow chose the one song written while our two countries were at war. Most of us have forgotten, but the very night Francis Scott Key penned The Star Spangled Banner, British blood was being poured out on American soil. “The bombs bursting in air” we so proudly sing of were in fact being fired at Redcoats. Nonetheless, this is the song England upended her own tradition with to dedicate to us while we mourned. In so doing, I believe England unknowingly pierced well beyond the veil of international politics, and that this single act has healed a supernatural wound that has festered for over two centuries.

To explain, consider the Jewish “bar mitzvah.” When a boy comes age of, his family conducts a holy service in which he receives his father’s blessing. He is thus received into manhood, spiritually empowered to go out into the world bearing the family name, and expected to have great success. Similarly, when ordaining a minister or sending out a missionary, Christians “lay hands” upon the head of a new leader, imparting the spiritual authority of the church, and to signify their blessing upon the emerging ministry. That’s not what happened when America “left home” however. We broke away in rebellion to England’s authority. We actually took up arms against the “parents” who birthed us.

Yes, yes, our cause was certainly just. History has never begrudged us that. It might even be rightly argued that God was on our side. We certainly became successful enough (although less than a hundred years passed before we fell into terrible war with ourselves, which to be honest still isn’t over). Worse, we became obnoxiously drunk with our quick success. As England lost her territories over the decades, America conquered the world. Of course trade routes quickly reopened between us, and we’ve had a great economic relationship for most of the time since. Our governments have successfully worked together as well – you’d even call us allies.

But facing facts – the actual people of our countries have barely maintained a civil savagery in our attitudes toward one another. To the English, Americans are snotty brats, spoiled beyond redemption by our money, power and conveniences. Meanwhile, we disdain the English concept of royalty and tradition, and in fact, think you’re rude and stuffy. The Fourth of July, garishly celebrated as our “Independence Day,” is today commonly referred to in English slang as “good riddance day.” You’ve always viewed us as the prodigal son who ran off with the inheritance. We’ve considered you the jealous brother who got irate because the father blessed us anyway. Sure, things couldn’t be better on the economic and political fronts, but deep down… we’ve never really particularly cared for one another.

Am I being unfair here? Of course we’re the best of friends. After all, wasn’t it America that came to England’s aid in not one, but two world wars? No America, we did not. And how dare we be so pretentious to even think that? We protected our interests, and that is all. Churchill and Roosevelt worked together for years to enlist America’s aid against Hitler, to no avail. It took Pearl Harbor to get us involved. Yes, we bled and died on England’s soil this time, but not for the English, for us. Certainly not because she needed us in her darkest hour.

And now we face probably our darkest hour. But we didn’t even call, and England has already answered.

They could have sent us flowers. They could have offered an eloquent speech of condolence, or perhaps sent someone over to stand in front of the cameras with one of our leaders – the usual international stuff. Instead, the great and proud England elegantly humbled herself, abandoning a tradition more sacred than baseball, apple pie and even Mom herself will ever be to us. They took that tradition and placed it on an altar of forgiveness, which in our arrogance, we never thought even once to ask for. Then they willingly burned it - in our honor - for all the world to see. They played our song.

For all intents and purposes, England bar-mitzvahed us. She has received us as all grown up now, and has moved to make us a family again. Heaven will record this as the day that the rift caused by our violent separation was finally closed. Only it was not slick American “ingenuity,” but England, with her superior character, who won this victory before God and man.

Thank you, England. My only regret is that we were too slow – too in shock, and frankly, too unaware of what this truly meant - to grasp the significance of your sacrifice or even to respond in a proper manner. I wish the news and all the world had seen our President standing at attention, saluting you across the sea, but it just didn’t happen like that. We’re stupid that way England, and for that, we are so very sorry. But I salute you. I pray that all America will also. You’ve been so patient with us, waiting for us to grow up into mature, decent adults – the kind you’d actually want to be friends with. However, so much time has passed that we now stand shoulder to shoulder, in a way that parents and children simply cannot. We are equals, and right now we will need to cling to each other desperately IF we are to survive the challenges this war is going to bring.

Thank you, England. Weeks ago, we were merely mutually cooperating world powers. Now, your act of sacrificial love has made us brothers. May we forever mourn together when the other is mourning. May we forever rejoice as the other rejoices. And may we now and forever always leap to the other’s aid in future times of crisis, even though it may cost us dearly. You have already led us in this, not by power or might, but by example.

Thank you, England. We appreciate you, and we love you. And just in case you’ve never heard the words spoken from an upstart American –
“Long Live The Queen.”



And may God bless Great Britain.

Shortly after the 7/7 attacks in England, the US Army Band went to the British Embassy and played God Save the Queen.

While our 2 countries don't see eye to on everything, to say the relationship is damaged or over, in my opinion, is wrong. You could think of the absolute worst thing that the UK could do to the US, and we would still respond if the UK is in trouble.

We would throw ourselves under the bus to protect the other... This issue is nothing more than the UK telling the US no, as is their right as a sovereign nation, and our mother country.

Here are some examples of how the US feels towards our cousins on the other side of the pond.

British Military arriving at Dallas-Ft. Worth Airport


British wounded Veterans arriving at Dallas-Ft. Worth Airport


American Military arriving ay Shannon Airport, Ireland


The media can report / say what its want, however I think they are missing the larger point. The people of The United States will always be there for The people of Great Britain, through thick and thin, ups and downs and whatever else may pop up from time to time.

God Bless the United States / God Save the Queen

Ya know what I thought was funny, well in MSM land they were saying that America was wanting Britain to go into Syria with them but Britain never had enough intel to warrant going to war, however according to the "news" America had more intel but kept it from Britain and now they are on there own lol Doh !! Obama Fail

reply to post by Xcathdra


Many may disagree - but a truly remarkable post.

reply to post by Misterlondon


I agree with what you said but thought I would add its probably also because we are too broke to pay the fuel bill to get our ships back after their sojourn in Syrian waters and in any case we couldn't afford to send any amunition etc.

Earlier today the MSM was wittering about Cameron apologising to Obama so I suppose the damaged relationship is their developing theme.

The media, like our politicians have lost all credibility because we know they are run by people with vested interests so they no longer serve as a means of information. You have to watch channels that are not so prejudiced as our current UK onces and read the comments from the people on the ground.

Recently I have noticed that the sheer chasm between governments and the people they are supposed to represent is being openly discussed, so perhaps politicians will wake up and unite again with the electorate.

The media is another story because when we had only newspapers and tv, it was openly acknowledged that one didn't believe everything one read in the paper. Now we have the net the media slant has been exposed fully as well as the people behind the media and its going to take a very long time for media to get back to simply reporting the news in an unbiased, even balanced manner. Today far too many young interviewers seem to think they are on some kind of crusade with the PC they have had stuffed into their skulls from the university lecturers. Many of them are so brainwashed one would think that uni is a type of church that teaches media dogma..

Just a little add-on here.


Was browsing the BBC news app on my phone this morning. There was a headline that read something like:

"UN chemical leaders leave Syria"

The picture accompanying the headline was a picture of Obama. Made me laugh.


In other news keep the discussion up guys. Some of the French related comments on here are a bit mis-informed. I have to side with the French, they are massively respectful to Brits and US.

Brits and US natives and soldiers are very bonded I feel. It's our governments that are not, as such. Our military leaders I feel are very very close. And regardless if Obama and Cameron did not like each other, their military advisers would always advise to help the other out... In my opinion.

This isn't over yet.
Obama will get it 'fixed', the UN giving him enough of a mandate to strike. The UK will then come back on board, couldn't possibly have the French replacing them. All this is now becoming a question of not losing face. Three stupid arrogant pricks will override the wishes of the rest of the world.
But I really hope I'm wrong.

This is just the latest round of bickering between lovers is all.....and during intercourse no less.

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Can't dwell on the past, only look to the future.
at the minute we don't know enough to go storming in and potentially add fuel to the fire.
we've made the right decision at the moment.