How can Something Omnipresent have a Form?

reply to post by Grimpachi


God definitely has a physical body is some places of the Bible.

Gen 3:8-15 NIV
"Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden."

Dueteronomy 23:13
"Thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:"

(23:14) "For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp."

God doesn't want to step in human poop. Apparently, he doesn't care so much about animal poop.

God has BBQ and Cakes in Abraham's tent, while talking Family Planning and Sodom and Gomorrah

God waits for Moses and his wife at the inn.

Genesis 18
24" And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.

25 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.


26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision."

reply to post by Grimpachi

Being physically present somewhere yet being everywhere simply does not make a bit of sense to me.

It doesn't make sense.
God is only omnipresent in a metaphorical sense, where everything that happens is at least indirectly a result of some action by God, if not then exactly, at some point in the past.

There is only the present and it is everywhere - always.
The present is forming as what is seen, heard, tasted and touched.
The present never truly forms - it is flowing.

This is the presence of the lord.
The father is seeing the appearance which is the son.
The son is the constantly changing image, the moving part of life, the light of consciousness, the play of light.
The Father is the seeing, knowing and ever present aspect watching the movie - still and never changing, eternal.

Originally posted by rival
I think that passage is a little short-sighted to say the least.

Think of it this way...

You are a spiritual being and God is a spiritual being. So we are created in his image.
God is eternal. We are eternal.

It is naive to think that your "human form" is what God was referring to when he said "...his image."

Your human form lasts (at best) 100 years...your spiritual form will last "forever".

Don't get too attached to that skin suit you're wearing. It doesn't last long.
Oh, and you won't find God in a book...he is omnipresent remember. He is\right there in your heart

So you are saying when he created humans he did not create them to look like him physically that would be myth.

Things like this are completely false?

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by Grimpachi
Okay I must not be explaining this well because it all comes full circle back to something having form yet being omnipresent. Being physically present somewhere yet being everywhere simply does not make a bit of sense to me. Like I said I am tired so I will give this another shot after some sleep.

Maybe then I can phrase my question a little bit better.

When the Bible was written, and when anyone speaks of God, they are referring to Father. No one here or above except a select few can go outside of creation and interact with God, they can only interact with Father. So, Father has a form. Thus the confusion. Father is a piece of God, to have interaction with all in a form, that all can see and hear.

Sorry but that is lost on me. It just doesn't compute.

However when you say he has form do you mean a physical form?

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

So God agrees to show Moses His glory. The Hand of God is also a metaphor and not a physical hand. Much like a person would use a hand to shield themselves from the brilliance of the sun, God will shield Moses from harm with his "hand".

The last part is the backside, and I can think of several possibilities. Perhaps God meant while Moses could not see Him, Moses would see his "backside", as in show Moses a small piece of Himself. Just as if you saw someone running away you would know they were there, but you wouldn't be able to say who they were because all you were shown was their backside

That is a bit confusing. Are you saying he has a physical form or are you saying any time they mention a piece of his form that is just an analogy?

The form that is seen is the image (the son) of God.
The seer of the image is God.
The Father and son are one.

God is all seeing all knowing and ever present.

There is nothing else.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

This is old hat.
As long ago as the time of Augustine, Christian theologians were deciding that such passages were not to be read literally because God did not have a physical body.
The idea that not everything in the Bible is to be taken literally is nearly two thousand years old.

Moses may have ben given some greater awareness of the presence of God.
However, John's gospel declares that no man has seen God (because it's impossible to do so), so Moses would not have literally seen him either.

edit on 30-8-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

Thanks that pretty strait forward which is what I am looking for. So you are saying God does not have form and when the bible speaks of him having form that is just an analogy.

I have gotten several answers so far yet it seems some different opinions on the matter.

Originally posted by rival
I think that passage is a little short-sighted to say the least.

Think of it this way...

You are a spiritual being and God is a spiritual being. So we are created in his image.
God is eternal. We are eternal.

It is naive to think that your "human form" is what God was referring to when he said "...his image."

Your human form lasts (at best) 100 years...your spiritual form will last "forever".

Don't get too attached to that skin suit you're wearing. It doesn't last long.
Oh, and you won't find God in a book...he is omnipresent remember. He is\right there in your heart

That is pretty much what I am trying to get to the bottom of. I have been in several debates/discussions where people say we were made in gods image and the sense they are using is physical image but they also imply spiritual as well. But I am just trying to find out if the bible actually says god has form/body then the question would be if yes then how can he be omnipresent if no then does that mean our physical form was not what is referred to when we were made in his image.

There are so many things that do not make sense to me how the bible contradicts itself and where one part we are supposed to take literally then other parts are just analogy’s for something else and common sense just does not apply. So I am asking those of faith to explain this.

reply to post by windword


See by that it means he does have form and it is implied he has form like humans.


So I am back to square one. Is there any kind of consensus on this from the establishments?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

Being physically present somewhere yet being everywhere simply does not make a bit of sense to me.

It doesn't make sense.
God is only omnipresent in a metaphorical sense, where everything that happens is at least indirectly a result of some action by God, if not then exactly, at some point in the past.

I think you are referring to Omniscience: Universal or Complete knowledge I was referring to om•ni•pres•ent (of God) present everywhere at the same time.

The Ominiscience brings up another point about free will but that is an entirely different thread that I don’t want to even try to go into here.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
There is only the present and it is everywhere - always.
The present is forming as what is seen, heard, tasted and touched.
The present never truly forms - it is flowing.

This is the presence of the lord.
The father is seeing the appearance which is the son.
The son is the constantly changing image, the moving part of life, the light of consciousness, the play of light.
The Father is the seeing, knowing and ever present aspect watching the movie - still and never changing, eternal.

I appreciate you trying to help but the spirituality angle hasn’t helped me find the answer to this question and the following ramifications of that answer.

I want to know if god is supposed to have an actual form/body and how that relates to his omnipresence and the bases on how we were made in his image.

ETA

The form that is seen is the image (the son) of God.
The seer of the image is God.
The Father and son are one.

God is all seeing all knowing and ever present.

There is nothing else.

Thanks but it doesn't really help.

I am starting to think I just have a mechanical mind to where people like me are not supposed to be able to make sense of this stuff.

reply to post by Grimpachi

I think you are referring to Omniscience: Universal or Complete knowledge I was referring to om•ni•pres•ent (of God) present everywhere at the same time.

What does "being present" mean?
It means doing something somewhere.
Why would God be somewhere doing nothing?
God can do something somewhere that the affects last a long time or forever, freeing Him up to do something somewhere else.
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Grimpachi


If you take the Quantum Physics route then anything smaller than Planck's length is everywhere at once. If God is analogue instead of digital then He would be everywhere simultaneously. Any particle smaller than Planck's length immediately loses locality.

Originally posted by Grimpachi


This is something that puzzles me. In Exodus 33:18–23 God says unambiguously that He has a face, a hand and a back. This distinctly means there is form and a body yet he is supposed to be omnipresent. To me this is a pretty big issue because man is supposed to have been created in his image.

It would be one thing if the bible claimed the universe was god’s body or that god was purely spiritual but it definitely says he has form. I am trying to gain some insight on this and have done some searches looked through couple sites and one even said.
The only way to understand this passage from Exodus without making a mockery of God’s word is to agree that God has a shape and a body!

It seemed like a site meant to instruct others on how to answer questions like that however it never really answered the question it seemed to dodge the issue. I would like to know how do those of faith reconcile this or do you even try? If you have an idea how that is supposed to work I would like to know. Please no YouTube videos they always seem to be doing mental gymnastics. If you can explain it plainly that would be great.

There are many levels of God. If you're talking about the Ultimate Creator of this Universe, then no, there is no form. Because The Creator is in a "World Without Form." Each of these levels of God are represented by the beings who have ascended back into the world you call Heaven or Spiritual Realm. We currently live in the Physical Plane, which is a small part of the "Material Universe" or also known as the "World of Form." We are all part of God. Here in the Physical Plane, we are also God experiencing in the physical form. So anything in the "World of Form" has a form, either very dense (like us) or hardly dense at all (people living in the Emotional Plane or higher, most people stay in this plane after death).

So who is this God the Bible talks about in Exodus? Well, the Bible talks about many different beings and none of them are the "Ultimate Creator" as most people believe. The one walking around with Adam and Eve was different, while the one helping out Moses is another God. Confusing yes? It's not as simple as most religions portray God to be. So the God in Exodus was Yahweh or Jehovah as some people call Him. At the time of Exodus, Yahweh was responsible for looking after Earth. He happened to choose the Israelites as His people. He was part of the "Elohim." The Elohim were a group of gods that helped create the Earth at the time.

Now, being part of the Elohim, Yahweh was and is very powerful. So in order for Him to interact with mankind, He had to lower part of His consciousness down to the Physical Plane. This consciousness can become any form He wants, including a body that looks like human. Because He lowered Himself down to the Physical, of course He is going to have a form. You also noticed that He had a lot of human emotions like anger and jealousy, right? Well, anybody who comes down here will be affected by the incredibly dense universe and will result in the creation of the Ego. Because without the Lower Self or the Ego, you can't exist on Earth. The Ego is part of the Soul, which is the Physical Vehicle. His lower form was not the True Yahweh. It was only a lower manifestation of the Yahweh persona.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

I think you are referring to Omniscience: Universal or Complete knowledge I was referring to om•ni•pres•ent (of God) present everywhere at the same time.

What does "being present" mean?
It means doing something somewhere.
Why would God be somewhere doing nothing?
God can do something somewhere that the affects last a long time or forever, freeing Him up to do something somewhere else.
en.wikipedia.org...

I can't answer your question of why he would be doing nothing. I have my own questions that I am trying to get a solid answer for here.

You posted the link to the definition it means being everywhere at once in short. Not planning ahead as it seems you are implying but I am sure god could plan ahead just like most people can.

I am still trying to get a consensus on a physical form. Some say yes some say no.

From experience WinWord usually has he stuff right so I am leaning that direction ATM.

reply to post by Grimpachi

I am still trying to get a consensus on a physical form. Some say yes some say no.

From experience WinWord usually has he stuff right so I am leaning that direction ATM.

I was a fundamentalist for a really long time, right up to very recently. So I have to sort of force myself to not take the Old Testament as being factually accurate. But eventually I can get to that place where I can consider it rationally.
Maybe you want an answer that is acceptable to a fundamentalist.
My non-fundamentalist opinion would be that God is very similar to a physical person but has immunity to some of the restrictions that we have, meaning things do not kill Him that would kill us, so He could go anywhere He wants.
That does not mean that God could not show up, appearing to a human observer to be perfectly physical.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

So God agrees to show Moses His glory. The Hand of God is also a metaphor and not a physical hand. Much like a person would use a hand to shield themselves from the brilliance of the sun, God will shield Moses from harm with his "hand".

The last part is the backside, and I can think of several possibilities. Perhaps God meant while Moses could not see Him, Moses would see his "backside", as in show Moses a small piece of Himself. Just as if you saw someone running away you would know they were there, but you wouldn't be able to say who they were because all you were shown was their backside

That is a bit confusing. Are you saying he has a physical form or are you saying any time they mention a piece of his form that is just an analogy?

The Bible deals with extremely complicated and complex subjects, so yes, it can be confusing, to the point a person can devote their entire life and not truly understand. That goes to the heart of my post, God's nature is incomprehensible to man, and seeing God's "face" would kill a person. Think of a water baloon that holds 1 litre of air, and suddenly 100 litres is forced in. That is what would happen to the human mind.

God does not have a physical form, though God can assume a physical form. He is still everywhere else though at the same time. He does not naturally have a physical form. God encompasses everything and yet is outside of everything. He is is outside of space and time, He is every where, and every time, and outside of space and time, all at once.

Imagine a computer AI. Now imagine there were robot bodies it could inhabit. There would be no need for the AI to leave the mainframe just because it was also in the body, it would be in both at the same time. The same is true for God. He can inhabit a physical body, but He does not stop being everywhere else when He does. God could inhabit and control a million physical bodies at once, just as a computer AI could control many robot bodies at once. The only limiting factor for the AI would be computing power, God has unlimited "computing power".

Originally posted by Grimpachi

Originally posted by rival
I think that passage is a little short-sighted to say the least.

Think of it this way...

You are a spiritual being and God is a spiritual being. So we are created in his image.
God is eternal. We are eternal.

It is naive to think that your "human form" is what God was referring to when he said "...his image."

Your human form lasts (at best) 100 years...your spiritual form will last "forever".

Don't get too attached to that skin suit you're wearing. It doesn't last long.
Oh, and you won't find God in a book...he is omnipresent remember. He is\right there in your heart

That is pretty much what I am trying to get to the bottom of. I have been in several debates/discussions where people say we were made in gods image and the sense they are using is physical image but they also imply spiritual as well. But I am just trying to find out if the bible actually says god has form/body then the question would be if yes then how can he be omnipresent if no then does that mean our physical form was not what is referred to when we were made in his image.

There are so many things that do not make sense to me how the bible contradicts itself and where one part we are supposed to take literally then other parts are just analogy’s for something else and common sense just does not apply. So I am asking those of faith to explain this.

I once did a very in depth study of man being created in God's image. It 100% has nothing to do with our physical appearance. Sadly I forget too much to give you the lesson/explanation, but when you dig very deep the image of God is expressed through the combination of the man and woman. Neither man or woman alone is the complete image of God. If interested I wil try to find some reading material for you.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
I want to know if god is supposed to have an actual form/body and how that relates to his omnipresence and the bases on how we were made in his image.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

God existed before there was a universe. God existed before anything physical existed. This precludes God from being a physical entity.

Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Again, we have a description of God before the universe existed. The Word is Jesus, who clearly did not have a physical form until He took one to be born of Mary.

God can physically manifest, God has no "natural" physical form or limitation.