We are currently in Asteroids, people. Don't you get that? E.T. is next.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Physics don't change in space. It still takes time, especially for a low powered laser.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

 

Physics don't change in space. It still takes time, especially for a low powered laser.

Zaphod, I would like to submit this to you and it is not designed as a trap, a ruse, a play or act of any kind. This is sort of off topic but I'd really like to just make a couple of simple things very clear about NASA's laser weapons.

But in a way, Asteroids and Laser Weapons do go together. How low powered are these lasers you are talking about?

Mythbusters quote

Hat guy explains that they will be using a 1 Gigawatt laser because
"..that's what you got to have to make it to the moon and back."

Here is another Mythbusters quote

Now, we're firing on the order of 200 quadrillion photons per laser pulse at that reflector and we're getting between 1 and 3 photons back per pulse if we're lucky.

The LRO was equipped with a LOLA, which is a laser instrument itself. I would like to agree with you on the power of this laser.

Also. The LRO has one more laser... the dedicated tracker laser. I would like to agree with you on the power of this laser.



I originally thought that LRO had only one laser equipment on board, the LOLA.

But, later I was still looking for more clues and found this Wikipedia says there is a "dedicated tracker" so I must assume that there are at least 2 laser weapons onboard LRO.

So I stand corrected on that.

I also noticed that the LRO has it's own dedicated tracking station. So in reality the LRO has a dedicated laser tracker and a dedicated laser tracking station. Yes it does.

This volume of data is possible because the Moon is so close and because LRO has its own dedicated ground station and doesn't have to share time on the Deep Space Network. Source Wiki

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


You yet again show that you know nothing about lasers, but like to quote things that sound really cool. Power doesn't always mean that it's a weapon. Just because you hear "laser" that doesn't mean that they're talking about a weapon system. Laser altimeters have been used for many things, but they can't be used as a weapon.

The LOLA lasers (there are two) use 2.7 mJ per pulse on laser 1, and 3.0 mJ per pulse on laser 2 (only one is operated at a time). That's an extremely low amount of power as far as the risk of actually causing damage goes. It's like trying to use a laser pointer to heat something up (and less than that to blind a sensor). You can not use a laser altimeter, laser rangefinder, comms laser, or LOLA laser as a weapon. I know lasers are your new thing, but you simply can't change physics to fit your latest fad.

reply to post by Zaphod58


So why does it take Mythbusters must use a 1 GigaWatt laser to verify the LRRR?

Doesn't it seem strange to you that the Mythbusters needed a 1 GW laser to prove the Apollo LRRR but the LRO only needs milliwatts to communicate with the dedicated ground station on earth?

How do you explain the image of the LRO laser "dedicated tracker"? LRO has a milliwattt laser weapon with sufficient power to transmit a laser beam to earth and the laser can still be imaged like this?

According to Mythbusters the laser power required to get to the moon and back is 1 GigaWatt.

Is Mythbusters a fraud now?

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Because when you want to get a return, like with the LRRR, you need more power, to get a tiny amount of return. If you're communicating with something one way, you don't need nearly as much power. You really should study this more before you start throwing accusations around.

With a laser fired at the moon, and returned, they get one or two photons back every few seconds, under optimal conditions. If you're firing a dedicated laser, one way, at a known target, and that target has a receiver, designed to receive that laser, then you want accuracy more than power.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Well Mythbusters said you need 1 GigaWatt terrestrial laser to make contact with the LRRR. How does a mW laser on LRO have the power to communicate with the "dedicated tracking station" on the ground??

Somehow 1-3 photons can prove everything you say? I don't believe it.

Obviously, a 1 GW laser that pulses 200 quadrillion photons per laser pulse and only returns 1-3 photons is not useful for data communications.

Data communications is impossible at that rate.

How can data communications take place at mw values?

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Ok, TRY to keep up with me here.

The LRRR requires a laser to hit the reflector, and bounce back to Earth. That means you need power, and a lot of it, for the photons fired by the laser to make a round trip. It has to travel all the way to the moon, hit the reflector, and return from the moon. A megawatt class laser isn't going to have that kind of power.

Now, a communications laser only has to go one way. You are firing a laser at a receiver that is designed to "catch" that laser. If you are only firing a laser one way, you need accuracy, and not as much power. You still need power, but you can do it with a megawatt class laser, or under the right conditions, less.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

 

Ok, TRY to keep up with me here.

The LRRR requires a laser to hit the reflector, and bounce back to Earth. That means you need power, and a lot of it, for the photons fired by the laser to make a round trip. It has to travel all the way to the moon, hit the reflector, and return from the moon. A megawatt class laser isn't going to have that kind of power.

Now, a communications laser only has to go one way. You are firing a laser at a receiver that is designed to "catch" that laser. If you are only firing a laser one way, you need accuracy, and not as much power. You still need power, but you can do it with a megawatt class laser, or under the right conditions, less.

so the Mythbusters say you need 1 GigaWatt to get confirmation of the LRRR.
Are you saying that data communications take place at half that?? 500 MegaWatts?

Yes, you do confirm that when you say,

but you can do it with a megawatt class laser

So... is there a megawatt class laser on LRO or not?

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Oh dear god. Let me type this even slower.

To. Hit. The. Moon. And. Get. A. Return. Requires. A. Lot. Of. Power. To. Fire. A. Laser. One. Way. Doesn't.

Do you understand me now? Good god you're like a dog with a bone that won't let go.

No, there is not a megawatt class laser on LRO, I also said "under the right conditions, less". Space are the perfect conditions for a lower powered laser, as there isn't an atmosphere that is going to cause attenuation. The laser will go farther, more concentrated, so data being sent doesn't require as much power (that doesn't mean that a laser in space suddenly becomes more powerful).

And to make it even clearer for you, the Mythbusters are right, to hit the moon and get a measurable response you need a big laser. But yet again, power doesn't mean that it's going to do damage to whatever it hits. If that were the case, the LRRR would have been destroyed by now.

The copy of Life magazine in the OP was photoshopped to add the text about threats.

That's an ebay link to an auction of the same issue of the magazine and you can see that the real cover has no such text.

Originally posted by Zaphod58To. Hit. The. Moon. And. Get. A. Return. Requires. A. Lot. Of. Power. To. Fire. A. Laser. One. Way. Doesn't.

As we all know from school...

The gigawatt is equal to one billion (109) watts or 1 gigawatt = 1000 megawatts. This unit is sometimes used for large power plants or power grids.

The milliwatt is equal to one thousandth (10−3) of a watt. A typical laser pointer outputs about five milliwatts of light power, whereas a typical hearing aid for people uses less than one milliwatt.

1,000,000,000 watts was needed for the Mythbusted laser to hit the LRRR and return 1-3 photons.. but only ...
.005 watts is needed for the LRO dedicated tracker laser to directly hit it's own dedicated tracking station.

Good we agree on something.

Originally posted by nwdogg1982
reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

 

Absolutely. For the plan to work, people the world over need to be truly invested in the idea that asteroids are a legitimate (and imminent) threat. So *they* need to start laying the groundwork now, before the plan ramps up later, after the rogue nations are taken care of. Same will happen with aliens, once they start dealing with the asteroids. Plant the seed, let it grow, makes it more believable to the people.

Of course, not all are manufactured, asteroids are really a threat. But the means of feeding this information to the public is how the threats are being utilized, not really the actual threats themselves.

Agreed!

This would be the ideal delivery mode of propaganda... like Deep Impact 1998 American science fiction disaster film was followed by the reality based Deep Impact NASA mission.

Deep Impact is a 1998 American science fiction disaster film.[3] directed by Mimi Leder, written by Bruce Joel Rubin and Michael Tolkin, It was released by Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks in the United States on May 8, 1998. Source Wiki

www.nasa.gov...

And it makes perfect sense knowing of Werner von Braun's close links with Hollywood's Walt Disney. It's disturbing to think what might be in store for humanity when the movie Armageddon is written into the future script...

Armageddon, a 1998 American science fiction disaster drama film, directed by Michael Bay, produced by Jerry Bruckheimer, and released by Touchstone Pictures It became the highest-grossing film of 1998 worldwide surpassing the Steven Spielberg war epic, Saving Private Ryan. Source Wiki

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


There is no point in continuing this conversation until you learn a little about lasers, and stop trying to twist everything into what you want it to say.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Right. The topic in this thread is We are currently in Asteroids. I will confess that I have been getting off topic in threads concerning Apollo research and I will now on do my best to stay on topic and probably posting less than usual because I have bit of work to do on Nixon's Apollo.

The Disclosure 88-page thread is for Disclosure of the the moon landing hoax, pro and con. This thread is for the Asteroid Threat which is from the von Braun conspiracy theory. And the other thread is for Nixon's Apollo.

The topic of laser weapons on NASA satellites is not totally off-topic in this thread because laser weapons will be built for the Asteroid defense networks that von Braun prophesied would be built as the other threats diminished over time, Communism, terrorism and rogue nations. It is the NWO paradigm of problem-reaction-solution. This is the script. We are stuck with it, apparently.

The topic of Rosin's credibility is an odd one. Do we ever question the credibility of Deke Slayton, or Richard Underwood, or Farouk El-Baz?

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Yes because a half megawatt comms laser that could hit you for ten minutes and you not feel a thing is going to do wonders at stopping asteroids.

Waking up the old WISE to welcome in the new age of Asteroid Threat scenario. In the von Braun Prophecy the next threat will be E.T.

I´ll say that LADEE is a by-product of Reagan´s Star Wars program.

By the way, does anyone have information about a place called "The farm" located in Nellis AFB pratice range (or nearby)?

reply to post by meaningless333


It's a simple communications laser. It lets data be sent back and forth at ridiculously high rates of speed, but has absolutely zero chance of causing damage to something because of the power levels. It has nothing to do with Star Wars, or "protecting the landing zones" or anything else, but a way to communicate with space probes and craft much faster and much easier than radio signals.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by AlphaHawk

 

We went around about this in another thread. Apparently they're going to take all 10 lasers and shoot them at the optics, and that's going to blind the satellites. Now all the military has to do is put comm lasers on something, and they have laser weapons.

Didn't Larry Niven come up with that idea? Using comm lasers as weapons? It's how we defeated the Kzin when they frst attempted to invade the solar system

reply to post by AndyMayhew


Yeah, but the reality is far different. Works great in books and movies, not so much in real life.