Problem with Christianity

I personally believe there is a God. My belief is philosophically conceived and outfitted with theological wrappings. As I look at the so called abrahamic faiths, I am struck by the strangeness of christianity.

I typed in google "God is good". The results showed pages and images touting this idea. Now, when I wrote this, I had the simple idea in mind "God is good....because?" because that is what my reason commands me to believe. God is good because humans need God to be good, and, as an existential fact of existence, that's a pretty powerful idea.

What did some of my Google results give as a reason for God's goodness? he died on the cross for our sins. I can't help but gasp and roll my eyes as I read that. First, it's a non sequitur. Second, the statement God is good, can be framed and understood without recourse to religious myth.

Both Judaism and Islam can be appreciated at a simplistic and fundamental level without confounding the basic issue; the texts which project meaning for these religions can be interpreted to support a straightforward theology that considers the question of how God relates with man. But christianity jumps the gun, and skips the grandest question of all. It commits a basic error in logic: don't make unnecessary assumptions.

When I say God is good, I and every other thinking person deserves to consider the question in a philosophical manner. For me, the whole spiel about God incarnating into a man and dying for our sins is just philosophically incoherent - if it's taken literally, that is. If accepted as a metaphor for a spiritual theology, It is similar to the notions easterners have of krishna or Buddha. But if taken absolutely literally, it just lampoons the fact that everyone of us are doing our dammed best to live a meaningful life; no one has any inkling of the complete truth, and if one of us did, I suppose God might be a bit of a masochist, enjoying to see his own creations fight it out amongst themselves until that one true religion he implanted trumps the duds.

Surely, there must come a time where mankind maturely understands God as a reality, something that cannot be limited or embodied in story form as undertaking special missions for a specific group. Each people on this planet has handed down insights about reality; the truer ones survive the test of time, and eventually spread. Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism are faiths that have stood that test; each have preferred perspectives that touch upon existential and metaphysical truths. But none should be so conceited to think that only they are right, and the others incorrigbly wrong. Rather, the fact is, we all came to the divine by different paths; and our evolution involves understanding that, and getting on with life aware of that beautiful spirit which guides us towards the good.

Hindus and Buddhists appreciate the metaphors of their sacred texts; Jews and Muslims, for the most part, relate to God as a unified reality which underlies all existence, unhampered by anything else; Christians, unfortunately, have Jesus as a focal point; they speak of him, both in the sense of a man, who did all those things we read of in the gospels, and as God himself. The ambivalence of this narrative creates confusion for the masses of believers who begin to speak of a historical figure in metaphysical terms, not really recognizing the superficiality of that obvious blunder in category.

While i am by no means attacking a Christian's ability to live an ethical life, I am completely bewildered by their acceptance of a dogma that is so patently overkill.

God sent himself to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from the curse he put on us. How does that not make sense to you?!

/sarcasm

reply to post by Astrocyte


The whole Jesus is God concept is simply a trump card... and actually has no real backing from the book that Christians believe is Gods word.

Our God is better then your God... Our proof is that he became flesh and dwelt among us...

The reality is according to the book... Jesus was the son of God, but he also said we are children of God as well...

God became flesh was a idea created by John... Never once uttered by Jesus... or even implied

reply to post by Akragon


Maybe John wasn't talking about Jesus alone? He could have been talking about himself and anyone else who understood as well, not just Jesus. We have both a body and a spirit, Jesus says God is spirit, and the spirit (God) becomes flesh with us, because our spirit preceded our body.

Jesus kind of did imply he was God, though I don't think he meant it in an exclusive way as Christians believe.

John 10
30 I and the Father are one.

He doesn't say "my" Father, but "the" Father, implying he is Father of everyone and him being one with him means us being one with him as well.

Jesus represents all of us. The Son is the individual (you and me), the Father is everyone (the spirit), but the Son is still one with the Father.

There is a problem with all religion in my opinion.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
God sent himself to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from the curse he put on us. How does that not make sense to you?!

/sarcasm

The part about omnipotence.

Where it is alleged, he has the power to create. Really quickly too, it seems. Where he could, you know, create a new reality. Start again, start over, +dev godmode, restart, reset, do over, undo, just no copy-paste or cutting from a different copy. Instead, he creates an unimaginably convoluted scenario where he makes a virgin a mother without hanky panky, who then has a normal kid who does normal things and acts normally up till the age of 32, and when he seemingly has a psychotic break, leaves his family and wanders around seemingly enlightened and performing miracles.

Who then has to get arrested for falsely claiming to be the king of the Jews who is therefore by default, higher in status than all the fogey religious nutcakes, and deemed by the prefect of Rome to be of more guilt than a known thief and sentenced to death in his stead. All to the disclaimer by the prefect that he has no dog in the race.

And who was then beaten and stabbed and mocked until his torture.
Who then said "Never mind the bollocks, save them, they're as good as a bag of bolts without nuts !" as he groans and croaks at 3pm 6 hours later.

All this to open the gates of heaven to allow the believers into heaven, for the rest of eternity. A place refused to those who submit to the urges he himself bestowed in us. He can change it, supposedly.

Wonderful guy if he can, but just says "naww, the footy is on.. I'll do it later.", meat pie dripping into his beard.

Omnipotence... not really much good if it has limited power. In fact it negates the dictionary definition of the word itself.

So now we invent stories to go along with it so that we can continue to read disjointed words and go "Oh profound!" before we put the bible down and go out the back for a ciggy.

Actually, pretty much none of it makes sense. Not if you try thinking about it all without WANT being the motivating factor.

reply to post by winofiend

Actually, pretty much none of it makes sense.

Actually the gospels "make sense" when you put aside the fairy tales... which aren't important anyway

Though if you don't read them... ya they make no sense

reply to post by winofiend


Apparently you missed the part about sarcasm. I agree the whole thing with Jesus' sin sacrifice makes absolutely no sense. It's ridiculous and a control mechanism. That doesn't mean what Jesus said was any less true though.

I'm bewildered by your research of God via the internet

Such a Myth...tery this man called Jesus.

He existed.......no he didn't.
He died on the cross...........no he didn't.
He was the son of God...........no he wasn't
He was God.......no he wasn't.
It's all a conspiracy......no it isn't.
Believe in Jesus or go to hell.............but he loves you........but he doesn't exist
He had a good message of love............but he didn't exist......its the devils message trying to deceive you into believing God exists, which he/she doesn't.
All other Gods were of the devil......which didn't exist.

Since no-one can agree on anything then believe what you want.

But if you don't believe Jesus was the son of God you will go to hell.........which does not exist.

Its all the work of the devil.......but he don't be existin either.

Are we all seeing a pattern here?

My God, my God.........you have definitely foresaken us all........we are doomed!!!

Thank God you don't exist.........or do you?

reply to post by Astrocyte


The answer is to consider the quantum mechanics and mathematics behind creation. There are three forces behind creation, which work together as one. Before creation was engaged, we know two forces (Yin and Yang / Father and Mother). These two were in perfect balance. Compare this to Hydrogen having one proton (+) and one electron (-) in unity and balance. How do we arrive at the elements beyond this balance? In the early universe, we should have high order and low entropy.

The two aspects of the above state of things has a future objective mirrored to the first. Mother is consciousness (I AM). This is the Holy Spirit of the Trinity. The term Chirality is the right and left handed nature of all reality we perceive. To make something new, we see coalescence (Two becoming One). The third that is created from the other two happens by a process of invariant symmetry in physics. If you examine the five platonic solids of sacred geometry, you notice the pattern of invariant symmetry. Rotate the object in an direction and it is the same. This is where Chirality comes in.

To make an image from the process of coalescence, you arrive at a perfect copy when unity is present. There is no variation from the first symmetry. In order to have free will and individuation from the first, it is necessary for the invariant symmetry to be broken. In physics, Hydrogen is element 1. It is in balance and unity. Form this prima materia, we then see the Neutron added (Walled City in the Bible). A Neutron has two down quarks and one up. A Proton has two up and one down. They are mirrored as the Strong Nuclear force. The Strong force follows invariant symmetry and this allows our reality of entropy and chaos to coalesce by cohesion, adhesion, attraction and repulsion. The strong force manages the weak force of the Electron (-). The electron is the one that is free (Free will). Electrons do not follow invariant symmetry, but are managed by that symmetry.

God is the invariant symmetry of the strong nuclear force. The word Father in Hebrew is Aleph (Strength) Bet (House). All energy is information. Collapsing wave function allows consciousness to collapse the indeterminate probability of the fifth dimension down into the fourth dimension of time. This collapse of wave function changes the states of matter and allows the wave in superposition to become a particle to the observer. Although the wave is in a state of invariant symmetry (At Rest), the collapse of wave function from probability is governed by law. That law ensures that unity returns from the choice. Apart from the governing laws of invariant symmetry, the weak force would cause total chaos.

Mother in Hebrew is Aleph Mem. Mem is water and the Strong Waters are Hydrogen. The Strong House of Hydrogen is the strong nuclear force governing the waters. God is the first consciousness broken for our benefit. We each represent an individuation from the first so that we can return a new creation. We must be less than the first reflection so that we can rise back. The Strong Force manages the weak, yet allows for something new in the middle of this casting down through the harmonies of existence. This is a concept that you should read on wikipedia called involution and evolution. Science only sees the evolution and denies the Spirit (Blasphemy).

Son in Hebrew is Bet (House) Nun (Seed). The House of the Seed is what is produced as a Word of DNA from the Letters (Aleph Bet / Alphabet). Father is the Aleph Bet (Strong House) that engages and contains the Bet Nun (House of Seed). The Son of God is the FIRST house of seed (Cosmos).

Colossians 1

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Considering wave function collapse, the Son of God is what holds the wave together as it exists invariant symmetry. He brings it back again with the Neutron and Proton relationship of the Father (Strong House / Strong Nuclear Force). Your thread is a resistance of the Strong House because you are seeing the world from the weak house. God governs you back to the strong house and this is the Shepherd leading the sheep to see the higher calling.

Baptism is immersion (Involution) into the weak house by the pathway of water (Hydrogen). You are tasked with the goal of becoming the Strong House by reaching back to God (Rising to new life). You do this with the WORD (House of Seed) and you must be born again.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.

DNA is that word and God cannot be variable. He expects us to rise to that goal.

That goal reaches toward our new Robe (Body) and Crown (Mind). The Shepherd pulls the wool over our eyes (AMN). Amn in Hebrew is TRUE (ALEPH MEM NUN). This is the Strong Waters of Seed. AMN in Greek is Lamb. The wool over our eyes is AMNesia. When we have our wool sheered (Sin taken away), this is AMNesty. That wool is then washed white as show by the process of birth in the AMNion (Sac covering the womb). AMNiotic fluid is the water of the womb. AMNi is the River of life. dAMNation is taking the lamb away from the individuation given by God. Our soul is on loan as part of God's Spirit.

The wool is then used as the new robe in the end. A new crown comes from the walk in the wilderness with the Shepherd and it is a good thing he is invariant. Otherwise, no reality and only chaos.

Originally posted by Astrocyte
I personally believe there is a God. My belief is philosophically conceived and outfitted with theological wrappings. As I look at the so called abrahamic faiths, I am struck by the strangeness of christianity.

I typed in google "God is good". The results showed pages and images touting this idea. Now, when I wrote this, I had the simple idea in mind "God is good....because?" because that is what my reason commands me to believe. God is good because humans need God to be good, and, as an existential fact of existence, that's a pretty powerful idea.

What did some of my Google results give as a reason for God's goodness? he died on the cross for our sins. I can't help but gasp and roll my eyes as I read that. First, it's a non sequitur. Second, the statement God is good, can be framed and understood without recourse to religious myth.

Both Judaism and Islam can be appreciated at a simplistic and fundamental level without confounding the basic issue; the texts which project meaning for these religions can be interpreted to support a straightforward theology that considers the question of how God relates with man. But christianity jumps the gun, and skips the grandest question of all. It commits a basic error in logic: don't make unnecessary assumptions.

When I say God is good, I and every other thinking person deserves to consider the question in a philosophical manner. For me, the whole spiel about God incarnating into a man and dying for our sins is just philosophically incoherent - if it's taken literally, that is. If accepted as a metaphor for a spiritual theology, It is similar to the notions easterners have of krishna or Buddha. But if taken absolutely literally, it just lampoons the fact that everyone of us are doing our dammed best to live a meaningful life; no one has any inkling of the complete truth, and if one of us did, I suppose God might be a bit of a masochist, enjoying to see his own creations fight it out amongst themselves until that one true religion he implanted trumps the duds.

Surely, there must come a time where mankind maturely understands God as a reality, something that cannot be limited or embodied in story form as undertaking special missions for a specific group. Each people on this planet has handed down insights about reality; the truer ones survive the test of time, and eventually spread. Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism are faiths that have stood that test; each have preferred perspectives that touch upon existential and metaphysical truths. But none should be so conceited to think that only they are right, and the others incorrigbly wrong. Rather, the fact is, we all came to the divine by different paths; and our evolution involves understanding that, and getting on with life aware of that beautiful spirit which guides us towards the good.

Hindus and Buddhists appreciate the metaphors of their sacred texts; Jews and Muslims, for the most part, relate to God as a unified reality which underlies all existence, unhampered by anything else; Christians, unfortunately, have Jesus as a focal point; they speak of him, both in the sense of a man, who did all those things we read of in the gospels, and as God himself. The ambivalence of this narrative creates confusion for the masses of believers who begin to speak of a historical figure in metaphysical terms, not really recognizing the superficiality of that obvious blunder in category.

While i am by no means attacking a Christian's ability to live an ethical life, I am completely bewildered by their acceptance of a dogma that is so patently overkill.

- you are Absolutely Right AC

understand the dynamics of Belief -
everyone has a Soul - a rather helpless entity core -
fed by an I , an Ego


...and this Ego, I , is capable of Distorting, ridiculing and smearing the deepest sweet Truths of God
- using them all for itself
narrowing them all down
untill a Pityful mimick of the original

...and then that soul goes declaring "oh but im a believer ! "

- not so.


Dont give up sweet thing
- dont go to buddha [ thoth] or anywhere else
- he will Murder you
- i ve met him

...step, try step over the incredible Shallowness of those, who profess to know Him,
and fight out your questions
- with Him

this s no joke
it is about your very Life.

bless,

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
God sent himself to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from the curse he put on us. How does that not make sense to you?!

/sarcasm

You break the law and you will be condemned by the law, if you cant afford to pay the fine then find a friend who can pay it for you.

The natural law, God the judge, Jesus the friend who pays your fine.

reply to post by Astrocyte

Surely, there must come a time where mankind maturely understands God as a reality, something that cannot be limited or embodied in story form as undertaking special missions for a specific group.

I am curious how you understand God as a reality and why you believe in it? Because reality will show God exists as a word and concept in the minds of men. Outside of that, there seems to be nothing that man can maturely or immaturely understand about God being a reality – or even being at all.

If one understands God as a reality, he is therefore is limiting it in story form. I just see this as a sort of contradiction.

reply to post by Astrocyte


They believe God is "good' because that's what feels good to humans living in fear in the scary unknown world with the intention of survival.
Believing in an all-knowing, all-mighty, all-good God will help that fear to dissipate.


The truth of *THIS* Earthly reality is that destruction is stronger than creation.

It takes a lot of effort create but less effort destroy.

Things are created, but then they break down and are destroyed.
Life is born and then it dies.


Even living life as a spirit, things will always be changing (if there are experiences there), so it will be the same thing. There will not be "death" for a spirit but it still "dies" in the since that it is always transforming.

reply to post by TheSubversiveOne


By reality is meant "everything" i.e you, me, the outer world, your inner feelings, even this ridiculous contradiction you seemed to have noticed.

There are certain existential facts of our condition, for example, the fact that we use "words" to make sense to each other, which is also significant. Interpret that however you like. To you, that makes any conversation about any "truth" to be intrinsically contradictive. For me, that's just how things are.

Ultimately, at the root of things, I let intuition be my guide. I do not imagine that reason can really understand all there is to understand; reason, by its very nature, is a limited faculty. It can understand parts and the relation between parts. But it can't understand the complexity of something so grand as the universe and why were here. It can barely figure out how quarks, cells, ecosystems, evolution and consciousness can co-exist in a coherent manner.

So, as I mentioned, I began from the premise that humans seek the good; we want it for ourselves, and, as our history has shown, we also want it for each other. Maybe there are a few sociopaths here and there littering the collective atmosphere with perspectives that aren't helpful, but for the most part, people have an inborn desire to live peaceably and let others live peaceably; granted, it requires the guidance of reason to set us on that path, but once reason flourishes, the majority of people agree this is the truth.

Also, God as a story, the story of existence of life and living, is partly true. But it is all our stories; it is the stories which can only be "stories" from the human perspective. Our existence is a story. My life is a story; your life is a story. But that fact does not limit God anymore than a tree or a bush or a rat represents a limitation. God is still infinite; he is still imponderable; however, what we see is something of what he desires to reveal of himself. The spiral formations which appear throughout the cosmos, from galaxies to DNA, the forms which any particular thing takes on. And yet, all of this is one massive flowing substance, inextricably bound. All of this is food for thought; something for humans to think about and draw some conclusions about what that ultimate reality is.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Mother is consciousness (I AM).

Nope, that's the Father. The Mother is the physical universe.

Exodus 3
14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

You're telling me that Yahweh (supposedly Jesus' Father) was actually the Mother? I don't think so.

reply to post by Astrocyte

By reality is meant "everything" i.e you, me, the outer world, your inner feelings, even this ridiculous contradiction you seemed to have noticed.

So your story of God is somehow different than everyone else's story of God? How ridiculous of me. Sorry, I was under the impression that you mentioned (in the very same paragraph) that God is "something that cannot be limited or embodied in story form", and then you proceed to limit it or embody it in story form. I was under the impression you wanted people to handle this philosophically.

There are certain existential facts of our condition, for example, the fact that we use "words" to make sense to each other, which is also significant. Interpret that however you like. To you, that makes any conversation about any "truth" to be intrinsically contradictive. For me, that's just how things are.

Ultimately, at the root of things, I let intuition be my guide. I do not imagine that reason can really understand all there is to understand; reason, by its very nature, is a limited faculty. It can understand parts and the relation between parts. But it can't understand the complexity of something so grand as the universe and why were here. It can barely figure out how quarks, cells, ecosystems, evolution and consciousness can co-exist in a coherent manner.

So, as I mentioned, I began from the premise that humans seek the good; we want it for ourselves, and, as our history has shown, we also want it for each other. Maybe there are a few sociopaths here and there littering the collective atmosphere with perspectives that aren't helpful, but for the most part, people have an inborn desire to live peaceably and let others live peaceably; granted, it requires the guidance of reason to set us on that path, but once reason flourishes, the majority of people agree this is the truth.

Also, God as a story, the story of existence of life and living, is partly true. But it is all our stories; it is the stories which can only be "stories" from the human perspective. Our existence is a story. My life is a story; your life is a story. But that fact does not limit God anymore than a tree or a bush or a rat represents a limitation. God is still infinite; he is still imponderable; however, what we see is something of what he desires to reveal of himself. The spiral formations which appear throughout the cosmos, from galaxies to DNA, the forms which any particular thing takes on. And yet, all of this is one massive flowing substance, inextricably bound. All of this is food for thought; something for humans to think about and draw some conclusions about what that ultimate reality is.

All of this is food for your thought. It's obvious that people have different tastes in food. You can call reality what you wish, and others will call it something different.

Yes I agree that pure reason is limited, but reason cannot be separated from intuition, or any other faculty of the body for that matter.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


The metaphor makes more sense in the way that 3NL1GHT3ND1 described it.

The mother would be The PHYSICAL universe and The father would be the consciousness.

Just like the sperm would be of the father while the empty egg would be of the mother..

It is the consciousness/spirit/sperm that brings it (egg/matter) to life...

reply to post by arpgme


Great way to put it. The spirit (God) IS life, which is why Jesus said he was "the truth, the way, and the life". He was describing all of us, not just himself. We are all the life.

To be "baptized" with water and spirit is to be born out of your mother's amniotic fluid (water) with life (spirit). We have all already been "born again" and "saved" and we already have eternal life by default because that is the way of the universe.

We are God incarnate, only religion has skewed the meaning of God to lead people away from themselves.