Know Your Bible

reply to post by Revolution9


I haven't read it, but at some point I certainly will. Even if I may not agree with it, it's acceptable to see if valid points are made.

reply to post by Revolution9


I've always found it most revealing that Al Qaeda are slaughtering more Muslims than anyone else.

Look at what is really happening. This organisation are no friend of Arabia. There has been wholesale slaughter and destabilising of the Arab world since this group became active. Makes me wonder who is really controlling this organisation and who gives them orders.

Millions of Muslims have died since 2001, many by the hand of fellow Muslims. Something is wrong with what we are led to believe.

reply to post by Revolution9


There's a LOT wrong with what we, as people, are led to believe.
I have one goal in life: if and when I am ordered to deny my savior, I will refuse unto death. If that never happens, then I just want to get through life as relaxed as possible.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos

This thread is about the Catholic church, which professes to hold the Bible as the word of God and yet teaches dogmas that go counter to it, not about whether the Bible is a "man made" book, or old enough in your estimation to be considered as God's word, or man's.

That makes no sense, so you think it is bad that the Catholic church that "edited" the Bible is doing something bad when its dogmas do no conform to the latest edition and find fault in me referring that the Bible itself is meaningless beyond some of the values it tries to teach (not all and certainly not the oldest version of it, like and eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth... etc), that does not compute to me...

Not all Bible believers are backward, mouth breathers, some of them has the ed-ju-macation.

No debate about that, especially when we get into the protestant faith, the Bible is clearly linked to the industrial revolution as unlike the Catholic church that attempted to make things mostly secret and magic, the protestants translated the Bible (and edited it a bit more) and pressed for people to learn how to read it (literacy in protestant nations was a leg up for science, that is why the UK, Germany etc got a leg up into industrialization).

But by current standards I would disagree with you people that believe in magic have to have less brain power, that is they are less prone to engage in critical thinking, take for instance the problems the Amish (and other similar religious communities) have in keeping control over their people and what they engage in (even against the religious faith they pretend to defend, a problem in methodology not the aspiration, I do like the keep things simple stupid mentality to everything).

As an aside, all science books were written by man, just sayin'.

Now that is a kicker, oranges and apples, you do understand that science is a methodology toward results not a belief system. That even with the best methodology we have man still continues to produce much error and trash now consider that and look into the book that predates science, the time it was written and the context and simply as the creation of man (even if we allowed that the sources did have divine guidance), the errors that would percolate each iteration it went. Only a lesser God would go about it that way as to make itself known. And then we have the problem of what about the people that lived before things were put into "paper"...

reply to post by Revolution9

This is a difficult thread for me to participate in, so unless I can be of some help, I think I'll just stay on the edges.

At root, it appears that the controversy here is over the issue of Sola Scriptura. There is some Biblical evidence to reject that position, but the discussion is still going on.

On some other issues addressed here, the opinion is more clear cut and resolved. As was pointed out,

In the first documentary it says that a conservative estimate of people who were murdered during the Inquisition was 50 million plus.

It may very well say that, but nearly nobody in the world of scholarship believes that anymore. Since new records have been available to scholars just after the turn of this century, the most informed estimate is that the Inquisitions killed about 6,000 people. And that's over a period of hundreds of years.

The source you provided for Catholicism establishing Islam relies on Alberto Rivera, a man of questionable integrity and sanity. Wiki takes a look at him here:
en.wikipedia.org...

It is very difficult to do thorough research on such monumental issues as Catholicism v. Protestantism, but I'd like to suggest that you find some additional sources of information. The ones that have been presented to you just aren't that reliable.

reply to post by Panic2k11


The point being, your reply did not have anything to do with what was being discussed.

The Catholic church claims to hold the Bible as the word of God, therefore they should not have a book of teachings that contains dogma that is blatantly pagan in nature.

The fact that you mentioned the Bible does not mean that you were not out of line. In fact, both of your posts were rather insulting, making allusions to not understanding how people can believe that a "book written by man" is the word of God (thinly veiled insult), and then on your response saying that believers are "followers of magic".

The least you could do is take a side in the discussion rather than try to derail it with your own views, I.E. that Catholic church is not violating their claims of belief with their dogma, and here's why, or "You're right, the church does in fact teach dogma that is contrary to the Bible."

You don't believe that the Bible is the word of God? Fine, leave it at that, no one here was discussing that particular topic, if you truly desire to have that conversation, start a thread, or join one of the bazillion that already exist on this site discussing that very thought.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


I guess my point passed you by, the point I was making is that the Catholic Church itself does not believe in the Bible inside the organization. That as you probably know it a layered structure. The simple fact is that the Catholic Church over time has absorbed into itself many pagan rites, dates and even adapted ideas as not only validate its religion but to easily extend it onto new minds...

I do not think that being clear about where I stand should be taken as an offense, I'm a true believer in diversity and as human I have no claim to be always correct. I also have become to have faith and those that understand how to use it (even if they deposit it on things that I find absurd at times) in higher regard, I do think that people that know how to empower their beliefs aka faith are better than those that refute aspiring that mind has control over matter, especially the conceptualized mental perception of it (leaving the mind to have control over itself).

Originally posted by metalholic
Heres why you cannot deny the 2nd coming:

Head Alien/God Head: Holds the bigger gun! Fate of the planet is in the hands of a more advanced species.

Judgement is not on sin: Sodom and Gomorrah. Had the people shown the angels hospitality as a collective people they would have been saved. Hospitality is a matter of intelligence. Ignorance made them judgmental and hostile. They didn't have the intelligence to act like someone with some sense. Basically the judgment is on Intellect.

Because the judgement boils down to intellect as we will also bring up the story of Noah. Primitive species got wiped out so that the new and improved mankind could take hold without polluted gene pool. Thus making the species more intelligent.

Being judged on intelligence means we understand there is a brain behind it all and he walks among the Earth. Being intelligent means we unite under this guy and open the 4 pillars to the universe thus making mankind more acceptable throughout the cosmos.

Only until mankind as a collective consciousness comes together under one man will mankind face destruction.

Think about there is a reason the guy is called the way. The reason is he controls everything. When it's time to be judged it will be him who tells aliens what to do. Why? Because they also have to unite under him. It all has to be one brain or the infections will be cleaned out.

Anything against christ and unity is considered infection.

This is exactly why it's imperative that people KNOW THEIR BIBLE in these times.

You are wrong. Judgement is based on sin, not intellect. Jesus will not be walking the earth again in silence while aliens take control. When Jesus returns, he will be lighting up the entire sky and all of the heavens and earth will tremble.

I'm not convinced that we have to worry more about the Catholics during these times than we do the "Christian Mystics". They're the ones who are going to turn Christianity upside down more than the Catholics have.

Originally posted by metalholic


Which leads us back to ancient aliens. If the man walked on water it was a simple hologram.

That would explain seeing him, but they say that Peter got out of the boat and went to him. That he touched him and he was not a spirit / hologram. You are simply disbelieving it is possible to walk on water. I don't believe anything is impossible when it comes to Yeshua, and that those who love and follow him will do even greater things when needed.

I have seen miracles and believe when one prays with faith for the right reason, amazing things happen.

Originally posted by Deetermined


I'm not convinced that we have to worry more about the Catholics during these times than we do the "Christian Mystics". They're the ones who are going to turn Christianity upside down more than the Catholics have.

I believe the Christian faith is being changed and has been in the process of change for close to 40 years. It is both the RCC and other mystics who are leading us into humanism and ultimately worship of the false Messiah. I have had mystical experiences. I have gotten off track in the past because of it, but God has always corrected me through the word and spirit to never lose sight of the instructions in the word. It is only when one begins to disbelieve the word that they start adopting heresy and teaching others to do so as well. They use their 'experience' as the foundation for truth and not the word.

The heart is easily tricked and experiences can easily be wrong.

Edit to add: When most think of mystics they might not think of the name it and claim it, blab it and grab it crowd of prosperity preachers. I was involved in the charismatic community back in the 80's. The services were fun, the music was great, but something did not feel right to me. I did not keep up with their popular teachers, but recently was exposed to some of their teachings and people like Kenneth Hopeland began teaching that we are God. They would twist the meaning behind scriptures like, "when you do it X to the least of these you do it unto me" or "we are all one body". This is the sort of teaching that is leading the church into the whore of Babylon.

There is a reason that only 2 of the 5 churches were approved of in Revelation. The unique thing about both of them is they knew who the false Jews were. I do wish people would not say "See, the Jews are not Jews". It does not say all the Jews are not Jews, but that some who claim to be are not.

We know THY WORD IS TRUTH and that "My people perish for lack of knowledge". I often wonder when people denigrate the bible if they have ever read it with a sincere heart to learn truth or simply to find error in it. I have rarely met another Christian who has studied in the original languages line upon line and precept upon precept to rightly divide the word. Shepherd's chapel students are taught how to do that, but they are very rare and hard to find.

The great news is, that God does love us and if we love and follow Him we have nothing to fear.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

We know THY WORD IS TRUTH and that "My people perish for lack of knowledge". I often wonder when people denigrate the bible if they have ever read it with a sincere heart to learn truth or simply to find error in it.

Most of the "Christian Mystics" I'm witnessing on ATS don't understand what they are reading in the Bible, so choose the mystic route thinking that they're being told truths by any spirit they can conjure up. Precisely why it's so important for people to use the power of the Holy Spirit in deciphering the Bible and not other spirits. Good for you for being able to recognize the difference based on your knowledge of the Word.

I was raised Catholic and have a big problem with their changing of scripture, throwing certain books out, and changing some scripture.

I think you've been misinformed. It was Protestants who changed Scripture and threw some books out.

Not only that, but one thing really sticks in my craw, papal infallibility. That is when the pope speaks on doctrine whatever he says is supposed to be the word of God and you are supposed to accept that he cannot make a mistake. Well, *cough cough* that is complete BS! No man is perfect and he is not some PA for God's word or doctrine.

Here is a source on Papal Infallibility if you wish to understand it:
Source is Catholic

I don't think you have read this source material, because it doesn't support any of your claims. Allow me to quote from the same source:

"What infallibility does do is prevent a pope from solemnly and formally teaching as "truth" something that is, in fact, error. It does not help him know what is true, nor does it "inspire" him to teach what is true. He has to learn the truth the way we all do—through study—though, to be sure, he has certain advantages because of his position."

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


May I ask why you throw Jehovah's Witnesses in there? I have attended their services in the past and they all had bibles, they had multiple speakers who appeared to be normal members of their group and it appeared they all knew the bible, even the kids, very well.

Of all the Christian churches I attended that was the one I was most impressed with. The reason I did not continue is their original founders did not believe in a church like structure and preached that the church age was dead. After their deaths or removals a church like structure was implemented. While current members all seemed sincere and well informed on Bible knowledge, I already had a "line in the sand" that hypocrisy and politics in an organization, no matter how long ago, were nothing I wanted to be a part of.

Also before you say they have their own bible, that just isn't true as I regularly still use the NWT side by side with the NIV and KJ.

'Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the Earth' (Matthew 5:5)

My suggestion is if you have to interpret what the bible means ...don't read it .It won't do you any good.It will not make you better or smarter or certainly not wiser.Nowhere in the scriptures does it say "the bible " is the word of God.That is an extrapolation like all of doctrines of religion.The scriptures we written as a testimony of God's salvation..Yahoshua.That's it.Vivisectioning it like a frog will not cause it to live.The fallacy is that the bible is infallible, however it is impossible to prove because the original scriptures don't exist anymore.God certainly doesn't need books to communicate God's "mind" or teach mankind how to live.

The core problem has always been when the doctrines that are gleaned from it are set forth as The Truth..Those doctrines are religion..belief .. nothing more.That is the disillusionment of all religion.It makes formulas and doctrines and methods to "commune" with God when it is impossible to do so through any methods or formulas.The greatest fools think they can study the bible to know God!That is insanity mixed with 3 parts vanity and an obtuse ego.

Some foolishly think their Jesus was a model of how to live their life as if they could do that when they have no clue how he lived his life.To believe the bible is a manual of life or a book of guidelines is equally as foolish.The bible has never made anyone better at best it only constrained some from acting worse.It may as well be written in Martian for the complete lack of understanding for what its purpose is.The bible will not save or improve or enlighten,guide,teach, or make anyone better and wiser etc etc...one iota simply because that is not it's purpose.

reply to post by Rex282


very well written rex, better than i could put it. but methinks there will be few who agree with you. most seem to adhere to the belief that god's son jesus died on a cross to absolve them from sin. although the many posters here appear genuine in their quest of understanding the bible they dont question whether parts of the bible have been modified in centuries past. they accept the standard interpretation thats handed down for centuries that the man jesus died for them and believing in him will give eternal life. its doctrine, not truth. truth can only be experienced, not relayed to another by reading or hearing.

reply to post by Rex282

Nowhere in the scriptures does it say "the bible " is the word of God.

Matthew 22:29 - But Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Matthew 26:56 - But all this is come to pass, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples left him, and fled.

Mark 14:49 - I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but this is done that the scriptures might be fulfilled.

2 Timothy 3:16 - Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.

Luke 24:27 - And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luke 24:32 - And they said one to another, Was not our heart burning within us, while he spake to us in the way, while he opened to us the scriptures?

Luke 24:45 - Then opened he their mind, that they might understand the scriptures;

Luke 24:44 - And he said unto them, These are my words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must needs be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and the prophets, and the psalms, concerning me.

John 2:22 - When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he spake this; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

John 7:38 - He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, from within him shall flow rivers of living water.

Romans 10:17 - So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Exodus 34:27 - And Jehovah said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

Revelation 19:9 - And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they that are bidden to the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are true words of God.

Revelation 21:5 - And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true.

In case you didn't know, Jesus quoted from 24 books that we call the Old Testament.

reply to post by Rex282

It may as well be written in Martian for the complete lack of understanding for what its purpose is.The bible will not save or improve or enlighten,guide,teach, or make anyone better and wiser etc etc...one iota simply because that is not it's purpose.

Praise God you're only capable of speaking for yourself.

reply to post by orangutang

truth can only be experienced, not relayed to another by reading or hearing.

Truth can only be experienced through the Holy Spirit, not any and every spirit that people conjure up on their own through mysticism. There's a reason the Bible speaks out against it. Even Satan is capable of disguising himself as an angel of light. This is why it's important to understand what's written in scripture. Through mysticism, many will be deceived if they don't know what's been written about it first.

reply to post by Deetermined


you search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.[Yahoshua].And you will not come to me, that you might have life.

That is a direct address to the pharisee and the religious of all ages that worships words and the doctrines of men not the creator God.In Matthew 5 Yahoshua said you have heard it said to those of the old but "I" say to you".The new covenant is the Law of the spirit.The spirit is the only teacher. not the letter of ther law that kills.

Yahoshua never searched the scriptures he already knew them.He was not guided by them he only did what the father said.He never tells anyone to study the scriptures to know God he always shows they testify of him for those to blind to see the Truth.The testimony of Yahoshua IS the spirit of prophecy.

Believing the scriptures does not save anyone.None of those scriptures you quoted say that.They all testify of Yahoshua and his fulfillment of what the scriptures say.Yahoshua is the savior of ALL mankind.Yahoshua is the Living word of God.

Here's a practical example of how it works.I'm a musician.I know music theory very well.Before I knew music theory I could play music because I just heard it.As I began to study music my hearing changed ..things that were natural for me were now labored and bound by rules.It took years before I came out on the other side.The hearing is still there and now I understand what it is however what is immensely more significant is the hearing.Studying music did not make me hear better it only made me aware of what I was hearing.I had to discard many, many bad habits and rules to hear naturally again.

Music theory is not bad and evil.Neither are the scriptures.It is impossible to hear music naturally with my nose in a theory book.I did not learn the guidelines to music from it I became aware of them because they were already there.Now that I "know" music even when I learn something new it is not a book thing.It is a hearing thing.My experience with God is a parallel.

I know the book(which you very mistakenly and foolishly believe I don't) but immensely more important I know God.It is all a process and ever evolving just like hearing music.I don't study music books to hear more music I listen.Same with God.Everyone has to go through their process however it all comes down to listening and hearing not studying.

Just as I am positive about music being ALL about listening and hearing so is knowing God can only end up by hearing.It comes through faith HOWEVER that is not the end game.Faith is not knowing.Yahoshua never said he believed in God the father.He always said he knew the father and the father knew him....that is communion...knowing.

“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel [all mankind] after that time,” declares the Lord.“I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts.I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’because they will ALL know me"

Are the scriptures evil..God forbid...can they save anyone or make them better .. no.Yahoshua is the Living word of God.The scriptures testify of the Truth THEY are not the truth themselves.If they were would there be multiple thousand of translations and billions of conflicting interpretations.Believing the bible is the word of God is a religious extrapolation.It is exploitative at it's core.To lord it over others and manipulate them through fear of "their" God.History has proven what it does.Spew blasphemous doctrines of men like the eternal punishment of hell.

It is you that are very mistaken.It is YOU that neither KNOW the scriptures nor KNOW the power of God.