Are atheists mentally ill? The Impact of Religious Practice on Social Stability

reply to post by EnochWasRight

So, you DO believe that the Christian faith has influenced the vicissitudes of society then? You said you did not believe this and now you do. You can't have it both ways.

I was responding to you saying that the Christian faith was "not the FOUNDATION of your post." Yes, IT WAS.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Interesting OP. My last thread happened to be about this stupid Religious People Are Less Intelligent Than Atheists, study states thing.

I think neither atheist nor religious are more intelligent than the other. It takes alot of courage to have Faith, as much as it takes courage to follow theories. For instance Quantum theory is based on alot of assumption... at one point, one realizes that EVERYTHING takes Faith, and attacking the other won't make one evolve towards the Truth. But... one has more chance at getting at the Truth if both would simply work TOGETHER instead of against each other.

double post.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So, you DO believe that the Christian faith has influenced the vicissitudes of society then? You said you did not believe this and now you do. You can't have it both ways.

The "Christian" faith's teachings are nothing new. People lived for eons before it arose -- and were perfectly altruistic and balanced. I believe that "Christianity" has neither contributed to, nor detracted from, the Evolutionary Morality that human beings, AS SOCIAL ANIMALS, have developed.

In my opinion, it is based on "punishment vs reward" - and anyone who lives in "fear of damnation and hell" has been manipulated into their behavior patterns....

it doesn't work.
Feeding children the threat of "hell" does NOT make for a healthy, well-adjusted kid.

On the contrary. All of civilization still rests on unneeded law. That law is removed when faith appears. Faith came as a result of being prepared through history by God. Collapsing wave function in physics shows why faith is critical to collapsing new waves of understanding. The need for law is removed when love appears. Christ is that love over law; giving over taking and truth over error.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

By the blood of Christ, there will be no divisions. Until then, we are divided until the enemy (Sin and Death) is made the footsool and the robbers are removed.

If the name is taken, a person is no longer a robber.

John 10

10 “Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.

7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

19 The Jews who heard these words were again divided. 20 Many of them said, “He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?”

---Why indeed? There are so many reasons, but one stands out. Giving is God's will. The name is the character.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So, you DO believe that the Christian faith has influenced the vicissitudes of society then? You said you did not believe this and now you do. You can't have it both ways.

I was responding to you saying that the Christian faith was "not the FOUNDATION of your post." Yes, IT WAS.

Your words were Christianity. The Christian faith is God's work in us. Our work is the refection of His Son's name. There is a difference.

John 6:65

65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

---Some will walk away from the faith when the trials of life do not produce a changed heart. Faith is the work of God to prepare us for the gift of salvation. Baptism is the process and we must be born again.

6:66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

2 Timothy 3 outlines the mark of selfishness.

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

18 identifiers (6+6+6)

The difference between a believer and a nonbeliever rests in the progress away from selfishness. Again, taking the name of Christ requires our movement toward Christ to receive the gift. Failing to acknowledge the Son of God is the same as taking the name in vain. Taking the character alone amounts to working your way to heaven. Salvation is a gift and gifts cannot be taken or earned. They are given to those receiving the name above every name. God prepares us, or we walk away from HIS Son and the name offered as the gift. Only good comes from taking the name and character. Giving is better than taking. The best aspect of this for us is when we BOTH take the name and the character. This is true healing.

First off let me state that, as strange as this may seem nowadays, I read every single post in this thread before making a comment. I would also like to point out that I have starred many posts on "both sides" of this thread for making well thought out posts, but I have not starred a single post that mocks the "other side".

Another point I would like to make is how both sides (atheist and theist) seem to want to put each other in these nifty little boxes. For example - blaming all of Christianity for the horrible and downright un-Christian crusades or for the nut jobs like the Westboro Baptist Church, etc. There is nothing about the crusades or the WBC that can be tied to anything that Jesus preached (love, forgiveness, tolerance, ignoring one's own ego, etc.). Same with the grouping together of atheists. I have personally known - and very much love - many atheists who act in a more "selflessly Christian" manner than a majority of people who claim to be Christian. So there are people on both "sides" that are "good" and "bad".

As for myself, I consider myself to be a Christian. Most church going Christians would probably disagree with my beliefs and would say I am going to some place that the early church invented through deliberate misinterpretation called "hell". Nobody is going to "hell". There is no "hell"...but that's a different thread. If one would be honest with ones self and re-read their New Testament, they would see that the only people Jesus Himself was angry with were the religious leaders of his day. The self-righteous "leaders" telling the people how they were wrong while being far more "evil" than those thet they judged.

The whole message of Christianity is to love everyone equally and to serve everyone equally. As soon as you wish harm or "hell" on anyone else - you have failed in your belief. Religion is the worst thing ever to happen to faith. Going to church once a week to sing and shake hands with each other is far different than what Jesus taught. There is no service to humanity in going to church and feeling superior to others.

The point of these comments is to say to the atheist or to the person who believes differently than I do - please do not judge all of Christianity based on the actions/non-actions of the majority of self professed Christians. For me, I think Charles Dickens said it best with this quote from the Ghost of Christmas Present:

``There are some upon this earth of yours,' returned the Spirit,' who lay claim to know us, and who do their deeds of passion, pride, ill-will, hatred, envy, bigotry, and selfishness in our name, who are as strange to us and all our kith and kin, as if they had never lived. Remember that, and charge their doings on themselves, not us.'

Meaning - do not blame God or Jesus for the sometimes ignorant and hateful things done in Their name...blame the person/people who do these things instead.

In the end, we will all know what the truth is. I believe in a Supreme Being of some kind. Not the old bearded dude in the clouds who rains judgement down on all of humanity - just the Being(s) who created us and who we will all return to. Maybe we are all part of the one, maybe we incarnate on Earth (or some other place/planet) many times, maybe we are all spirits of some sort just experiencing mortality just for the experience - I certainly do not claim to know all the answers - but I do believe there is something after this mortal life that we will all go to...and no one religion or belief has it all correct.

It's all military. Give them a reason to be afraid of you, and you have the recipe for servitude. That's why I don't like leaders who capitalize on fear. It tells me they don't have the character to capitalize on something more inspirational and less coercive.

reply to post by tallcool1


Beautiful post. Thank you.
It's not my thread, but, your input means a lot.
~wild

reply to post by randyvs

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

AI what's up? Are you atheist today or pantheist or universal pagan, hell I don't remember.
I wish you'd make up my mind tho.

Define 'worldview'

I thought I did. Your view on how everything came to be that makes up our world.

edit on 18-8-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

My position hasn't changed since the last time we had an exchange. If you are confused, it is because you are confusing yourself. In answer to your question: I don't know. I have good reason to hold several opinions regarding the possibility of the answer, but I don't have a concrete answer.

reply to post by tallcool1


Thank you for sharing that. Your post was a breath of fresh air in the whole judicial atmosphere of self-righteous recrimination that this thread has generated. It never changes, does it?

reply to post by wildtimes


Thanks Wild. That means a lot to me. You know, I find it kind of ironic that I call myself a Christian...but I get the most grief over my beliefs from "Christians". My journey (from Catholic to agnostic to atheist then to having faith without religion)was sometimes difficult. Like letting go of the belief in hell. It can be difficult as a person of faith to let go of the religious dogma that has been pounded into your skull from as far back as one can remember. But there truly is no growth without struggle.

And I am sorry if I have somewhat gone off topic - but the truth of the matter is that there are a lot of metally ill people on both "sides" of belief. Just as there is an equal amount of people with their heads in the sand who only want to convert instead of learn.

Edited to add: Thanks to you too AI. Although I try not to "seek" recognition - as a human it still feels good to receive it.

reply to post by tallcool1

It can be difficult as a person of faith to let go of the religious dogma that has been pounded into your skull from as far back as one can remember. But there truly is no growth without struggle.

Absolutely understand your position.

And I am sorry if I have somewhat gone off topic - but the truth of the matter is that there are a lot of mentally ill people on both "sides" of belief. Just as there is an equal amount of people with their heads in the sand who only want to convert instead of learn.

You didn't go off-topic (although that's up the OP to decide). Otherwise: True, that.

The factor at play here of course is there are indeed benefits to living in a cohesive group of more or less like minded people with shared behavior.

Herding cats is not conducive to cohesive group behavior.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


He's or she's passing on information..pretty simple...

Originally posted by chrismarco
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

He's or she's passing on information..pretty simple...

Pretty much.

Shocking, I thought this thread would go no were, I think it is the most post I have ever gotten on a topic.


Thanks to all those who posted and kept it going, and all the thought provoking replies.



May we all learn something positive from them.

reply to post by chrismarco


You're a little late on the ball there. And from the tone of your post, I'd say you missed the point of mine entirely.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


There is never too little or too late.

This song has been on my heart all day

youtu.be...




"It explains that many kinds of hallelujahs do exist, and all the perfect and broken hallelujahs have equal value."
Cohen

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Catholic girls are dirty, so I don't mind that religion at all from an Atheist point of view (POV)...get it?

reply to post by tallcool1


Jesus mentions hell in his
speeches more often than he mentions heaven.