Are atheists mentally ill? The Impact of Religious Practice on Social Stability

Originally posted by NeoParadigm
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

This comment,

How many deeply devout religious people does it take to change alight bulb? Answer.... None, they burned the poor schmuck who invented it and agreed never to speak of such evil again.

"But they killed Christians too"

I misread that quote, sorry.

not easy keeping up with all the replies,

What I was trying to say was most the people killed were actually Christians, and Jews.

No I am not making any excuses.

BTW, do you love only those that love you?

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Do you love a Christian?
Is there a Christian in your life that you love?

As long as they tolerate me then yes.

Do you love others unconditionally?

no. everything is conditional.

Do you forgive those you love?

yes

Can you love someone that hates you?

no. it becomes a matter of patience and tolerance at that point.

hate is strong word and too often misused. I prefer dislike. to hate someone means someone did something to me personally which is difficult to forgive.

Can you forgive someone that hates you?

depends if they deserve to be forgived.

No one answered my questions.

I just did as honest as possible.

Remember, god is love.

edit on 103131p://bSunday2013 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

god is special whereas humans are not.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07



EC, thank you

There is a place where one can enter into, that supernatural love, I have had a glimpse of it, but when I prayed for it I failed miserably, but yes one can enter into it.


Now I have felt hate for people from time to time, but managed to feel compassion for them in the long run.

I have to go

BBL

This is my belief, if you love if you are capable of compassion, there is the spirit of god within you.

Now I really GTG

I have to go make a dead tree bloom.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


It's the other way round, religion is a mental illness. Believing in unevidenced magical fairy tails that contradict the laws of physics is by definition...delusional i.e. mentally ill.

Religious People Branded As Less Intelligent

reply to post by Stormdancer777


I have only hated about 10 people in my life growing up and that is because they made my life difficult for no good reason. Generally speaking I rarely hate!!!! Being neutral or at most disliking is the norm. Sure I like plenty of people. I love few people as well.

Like and dislike is common. Hate and love must be earned!

Originally posted by flyingfish
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

It's the other way round, religion is a mental illness. Believing in unevidenced magical fairy tails that contradict the laws of physics is by definition...delusional i.e. mentally ill.

Religious People Branded As Less Intelligent

OH GEE LOL, you didn't even read my OP did you?

bless your heart.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

When a person grows up in a true Christian home environment, Psychological needs are first met by a mother and father who are themselves well adjusted.

Meeting Psychological needs and being well adjusted have NOTHING to do with the "faith" of the parents. Parenting is an art form, and requires the ability to recognize a child's unique skills, temperament, interests, challenges, and emotions. Helping a child recognize, NAME, and deal with their emotions (frustration, jealousy, anger, sadness, resentment, etc.) is a huge part of raising well adjusted kids. Tuning in to their interests, allowing them to explore with freedom (while being there as protection) - encouraging their questions, and allowing them the freedom to ask questions, think their own thoughts, reflect on what they see around them, and bring it back home for support when confused or troubled are PARENTING skills that have NO BASIS in Christianity - but are NORMAL, HEALTHY parenting skills.

Christian parents are not typically addicted to self-gratifying behaviors that would otherwise take away resources and time from the family.

Neither are dedicated NON-Christian parents.

The focus is not on taking for self, but on giving to others. In a Christian home, a person not only feels love and belonging from parents, but the entire community they belong to engages this sense of safety and belonging.

In ANY home where a child feels love and belonging from parents, and are properly socialized, while parents are connected to the entire community and work with teachers, neighbors, friends, family to provide that stability and sense of safety, the child will be well-adjusted. Christianity is NOT a pre-requisite for those qualities.

Safety is not a concern in the Christian home if the name of Christ is taken properly by character. When a child is not concerned with these first three needs, they have a high degree of self-esteem. The only way a person will seek knowledge is to have self-esteem as a foundation of met needs from the home.

And that sense of SELF-ESTEEM comes from the parents, NOT FROM CHURCH.

This can only come when parents seek FOR others needs. Exceptions can go both ways, but as I said before, these exceptions are founded on the examples of Christian ideals.

That is crap.
These "exceptions" are founded on general human empathy, compassion, and attention to one's children.
Christianity has nothing to do with "instilling" those qualities. THEY ARE ALREADY THERE.

In a Christian environment, we see kids at school who are well adjusted and seeking the betterment of themselves rather than taking away from others. I have taught school for 23 years, and the best and brightest are most often from homes of parents who attend church.

That's because you LIVE IN THE BIBLE BELT, in a state known as a meth-haven. I, ,too, have spent 23 years in education and live in the state west of yours - and Churchiness does NOT cause kids to be "more well-adjusted." I have two very honorable and well-adjusted kids, who were NEVER made to go to church, EVER. I have known kids who were "churched" who were absolute asses.

The rodeo clown at the Missouri State Fair is a great example of the kind of "Christian" attitude that causes strife, ignorance, racism, intolerance, and holier-than-thou superiority.

I am astounded, Ed, and VERY offended by your claim that "Christian" parents ARE SUPERIOR TO un-churched or Non-Christian parents. To claim that having "Christian" parents makes the best and brightest kids is akin to saying that since criminals eat french fries, feeding french fries to kids creates criminals.

NO AMOUNT of saying "there are exceptions" excuses this ridiculous maligning of non-church-going parents.
Absurd. I spent MANY years as a parenting consultant, counselor, teacher, educator, and support person.
CHRISTIANITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GOOD PARENTING.

Good luck with your book.

Now that is a funny thread ... LMAO ... OH please magic man in the sky .... smite them .....

reply to post by EnochWasRight


And furthermore, I have written a book as well which theme involves the DEVASTATING effect of "Christian dogma" on the minds and lives of people who aren't content to be "told how to live or think or feel, or what to believe" for fear of "punishment."

It's all to easy to ridicule someone's world view when you simply don't have one
of your own, or haven't stated it.

reply to post by wildtimes


First I've heard of it! What's it called?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

Yes christ was an elohim project, federation of light alien, that came down to earth from the heavens(different planet) to HELP rid man from sin and to save people from the nephelim which rule the earth up till now.

Well, I awoke spiritually after getting Baptized (which I figured out is just a ritual to activate Enlightenment through Grace), and eventually gained access to my subconscious. That's when I remember pre-existing as a soul. So to me, Christ was a pre-existent Soul, super advanced Spiritually, retaining his memories of being a Soul, at One with God/Source, and came to remind the rest to detach from this world and its systems of Gov/Religions/Thought.

We're basically just passing through, tourists. But many get wrapped up and attached to the 10,000 distractions available

Jesus is not to worshipped as an idol by being nailed to a cross, rather to be praised and followed as an enlightened being. The jews did not believe he was savior. By kissing a cross we are actually taking pleasure in christ's suffering.

Agreed. I bet if Jesus came back today, or whatever Savior the Jews think is coming, the majority of them still wouldn't believe its true, just so they can maintain the status quo of superiority-complex (false belief that they are chosen)

Its not about various forms of sacrifice like the church makes it out to be. Its not about denying yourself pleasures of life.

I differ in opinion here. For me, I've done it all, illegal substances, women, money, travel, pretty much all there is for us to do on earth and found it all to empty. Only a Spiritual Awakening has taught me to be content. Jesus also teaches to deny yourself, and he's referencing the Ego. It's all about ego-death and Spiritual rebirth.

The day of praise(not worshipping) should be saturday aka sabbath, not sunday aka the day of the sun. This is just one example of distorted traditions throught the years.

I agree, however that's just another detail of how all things became convoluted. For me, since the awakening, everyday is a Holy Day (Sabbath) and existence itself is the Church/Temple

I was baptised a christian and still revere christ, god and angels. My beef is strictly with the church.

YEah, my beef used to be with the church, after I was technically kicked out for having a Spiritual awakening and figuring out that none of the head Pastors or Theologians had something similar. But now there is just compassion. I understand the CHurch as a place where one can begin to learn, grow, commune, etc. However added to that should be solitude, meditation and additional studies of other paths/philosophies

reply to post by randyvs

It's all to easy to ridicule someone's world view when you simply don't have one
of your own, or haven't stated it.

Heya, randy....
To whom are you directing this comment??

I would find it hard to believe that ANYONE has no "world view". We all do. To a one.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis

Dear Spiramirabilis,

This is the third time in this thread (in the first seven pages), that I've been criticized for communicating badly, there must be something to those complaints, I'll have to be more careful.

Please remember that my comments were addressed to Wertdagf, who said:

Do you think these "great thinkers" would have lived very long if they had even pretended to be atheists?

I don't think under the threat of death those who claim to be religious can be taken at their word.

It seemed to me that he was advancing the proposition that many people were truly atheists in our history, but denied their belief because they feared death. I believed that few Atheists were put in a position where renouncing their beliefs would save their lives, but many religious people were put in that position.

Contrary to what Wertdagf's question implied, adherence to one's "faith" was more likely a sentence of death to the religious than to the Atheist. Now, let's move on to your comments.

The reason I said very few Atheists died for their belief when they could have saved their lives by renouncing it can be found in the information I posted on the Spanish Inquisition (which did not target Atheists), and my brief glance at Atheism and it's history online, from which I took my position.

Am I to understand, Charles - from your posts in this thread - that you think atheists are without honor? Why can't you at least be up front about it?

No, you musn't understand that, for that's neither what i said or what I believe. Atheists can and have done good things and many have honor. I was criticizing Wertdagf's position, by pointing out that it led to a conclusion which he couldn't accept.

The precise number of martyrs for any cause will never be known, but we do have, as I mentioned, the figure of 800 who refused to convert to Islam at Otranto, and the nearly 7,000 Catholic priests killed in the Spanish Republican "Red Terror" of 1936.

Yes, torture is an effective tool. But remember the purpose of torture dealing with belief. Nobody thinks a conversion under those circumstances is real, not even the torturers. It's either to get people to declare their belief so they can be punished for it, or to find other believers in the case of underground churches. God and man know that there are limits to what can be survived, but as massacres of religious tell us, it's usually a quick death unless the guards want to have a little "fun" first.

"You don't love Me? You don't want to be with me? Fine, you never shall be." May God preserve us from that.

Your God sounds petty and childish - and then you pray that God preserve us from his own childishness

I don't clearly understand you here. Suppose a person goes through life saying "God and His laws mean nothing to me, I don't want to have anything to do with Him." Then, at death, God says "Ok, I respect your free will and the choice you've made. That choice is effective here, too." Is God's response childish, or just? If you were to say that to a person for years and years, then asked that person to do you a large favor, would you have any right to that favor? Or would you just have to hope for that person's forgiveness and mercy? And yes, I want God to save me from all my fauIts, whatever they are. That all seems to be reasonable, could you explain your objection again?

there's a chance he might be more charitable than you

I know He's more charitable than I am, and that is my only hope. I'm depending on His mercy, because I couldn't bear what sheer justice would demand from me.

You'd like to suppose out loud that you're a better person than an atheist - but you don't actually know that you are. You will likely never know

Oh dear, I don't think I've ever seen you so wrong. I suspect that many Atheists are far better people than I am. I don't know that I am, and I've never claimed to be, a better person than anyone. There is only one Judge of that. What I do suppose, no, I know, is that I'm not anywhere near as good a person as I could be, or that God wants me to be. I cannot compare myself to another person using God's scale, I would dread even being put in those scales, if it weren't for His mercy.

No free pass Charles - I wish for once you would just cop to your own bias and say what you think out loud

What in the world do you think I've been doing? This is a vitally important subject, and I've put all of me into it. This is what I think, and feel, and believe. I'm sorry I've failed to convey it.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952

And yes, I want God to save me from all my fauIts, whatever they are.

Charles.
Dear Charles.....

Why do you have such a low opinion of yourself? You are a wonderful person, as far as I can tell from what you disclose here on ATS.

It bothers me greatly that you are laboring under the impression that you are fundamentally flawed and in need of 'forgiveness.'

Please, lighten up on yourself. Your patience, calm, willingness to consider others' opinions and thoughts, and humility speak VOLUMES about the quality of your "person."

I don't expect, or want, for you to "cough it up" and tell everyone about the things that you perceive you have done that are somehow "damnable," but only want to assure you that there is NOTHING for you to be worried about.

You are a jewel. Please know that. (And your sense of humor, when you employ (deploy?) it is beyond measure. )

with Love and Respect,
wild

reply to post by wildtimes


Hi Wild, No one in general really. Does atheism have a world view ?
Like Christianity says God created the world. Atheists don't hold that view and
often ridicule Christianity, while never stating their own world view. You see ?

reply to post by randyvs


But not all Christians share the same world view. I would never pigeon hole every Christians world view. You shouldn't make assumptions on what an athiests world view is. They are a diverse bunch of people with diverse world views not always easily pigeon holed, by those who wish to put everything into a box.

reply to post by randyvs

Hi Wild, No one in general really. Does atheism have a world view ?

Of course it does! (I'm not one, but yes, they absolutely have a world-view.)

Like Christianity says God created the world. Atheists don't hold that view and
often ridicule Christianity, while never stating their own world view. You see ?

Well,
actually, I think they're very good at stating their own world-view.

Christians (in this thread, as an example) are ridiculing atheism as "beneath dignity", and that's simply not the case.

As a counselor, my job was to ask people about their world-view. To help them make sense of it, to "deconstruct" it, to look at their professed "life story" - and ask them......
"how did you come to these beliefs? What were the circumstances and events that caused you to look at the world in the way you do????"

When a person sits down and takes a good, long, look at their upbringing, training, circumstances....and (most importantly) HOW their world-views developed (due to family systems, parental pressure, environmental factors) they are more able to discern their true "selves."

We ALL have a story -- and we ALL filter that "story" through the past events and influences we have lived (endured). The point of instrospection is to separate the "accepted" view from the "actual" view.

The only persons without a world-view are newborns - and from DAY ONE, it begins to form.
Being able to step back and say, "Okay, HOW did I buy into this particular world-view? Is it really resonating with my deeper self? My soul? My personality?"
is the first step to independent thought.

I'm not saying that adopting a faith as an adolescent or adult is "wrong", or "good" - I'm just saying that people need to reflect on their upbringing in order to assess their "world view". We ALL have one - some of us have never been given the opportunity to express and explore it - --

and in my opinion, an imposed indoctrination does NOT necessarily fit with a person's true self. Just like some parents don't adjust their world-views to accept their CHILD'S responses to the world. A good parent will try like hell to wrap their head around their kid's personality, responsiveness, reactivity, etc. to help the child NAVIGATE the world IN THEIR OWN IDIOM.

No two people are the same. Fact. Therefore, it's reasonable to say that no CURRENT RELIGION is perfectly suited for EVERYONE's ability to navigate the world.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


I'm speaking strictly with in the confines of discourse. I don't believe it would be to assuming to say
that atheism holds no world view. But to say that each one who is an atheist holds no world view ?
I would never say that.