In Texas, You Can Face Criminal Charges for Buying a Woman a Drink, page 2

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 06:40 PM

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Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by rickymouse

A woman who drinks twenty drinks and can still walk.....Is that even possible?

I know in my parts of Texas it is.

I'm glad I didn't grow up in Texas. Up here, if a girl drank five drinks she was kinda tipsy. Taking out a girl that drinks twenty drinks could be awfully expensive. I rarely bought women drinks at the bars, until I got married that is. I didn't want anyone to think I was trying to get women drunk to get a date. Or I could have just been a cheapskate

Wrabbit2000

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 06:45 PM

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reply to post by winofiend

Oh, we're talking about a case that's gone through one full criminal trial to put her away for 38 years and a civil process far enough to get the bar's insurance to cough up 1 million for serving her into stumbling drunk condition. If they are going after the guy buying her the drinks at this stage, I'm thinking it's safe to say they know what he did to deserve it. It would be nice if the story was a bit more detailed, given the detail the above two processes would have generated by now, but they didn't add those details.

Wrabbit2000

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 06:51 PM

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reply to post by LeatherNLace

I suppose that you would have no problem with law enforcement using the bar's surveillance footage to identify and prosecute the folks that supplied this woman the other 19 drinks, right?

I think I missed where it's specified 1 (singular) drink for what he bought? I'm just saying I've come across girls in crappy condition like she must have been, at parties where someone was happy to fill 'em up until they wouldn't do the other end of the 'bargain' and got left. It's pretty nasty to do and what the article says pretty much happened here.

I'd love to see the film though (If there was one), to see how close to falling right out of her chair she was at 20 drinks..and if he DID somehow, just buy her one and walk away, was it her last one? It's all pretty extreme to start with. By the end of the night she should have had help called for her, not buying her another for the road.

HomerinNC

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 06:53 PM

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reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Well, are the guys that bought her drinks prior to this guy responsible as well??

James1982

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 06:54 PM

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Originally posted by Iamschist
reply to post by winofiend

Getting someone massively intoxicated and then allowing them to walk or stagger away and go drive is not ok. I hope they nail him.

You are flat out making things up.

Are you doing this intentionally? Are you a drunkard that blames others? I'm trying to figure out what rat you have in this race, because you are fixed on nailing this guy regardless of the facts.

There is no evidence, and not even any claim that this one guy got her massively intoxicated and then "allowed" her to driver.

First of all, we have proof this woman is a liar. She said the guy put drugs in her drink, then she changed her story.

Second of all, it said he bought her drinks, it didn't say how many or at what time during the night. If he buys her 2 drinks at 6pm and by 2 in the morning she kept drinking and was out drunk driving is that his fault?

It seems like you want this guy to go to jail simply because he was buying a woman drinks. I'm not sure how old you are, but for a pretty wide margin of the dating population, going out and drinking is a pretty standard activity for both men and women. The men and women both go with the intention of drinking, and many on both sides go with the intention to hook up as well. That's really beside the point and none of your business what these two people were up to, it's HER fault she was drunk driving, not his, not the bartender.

You seem hellbent on blaming as many people as possible beside the person who actually did something wrong.

Bob Sholtz

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 06:54 PM

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reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I say good on this. 20 drinks is absolutely and obscenely drunk.

yes it is. but let's say i go to a bar and buy a lady a drink, her first drink. she then drinks 19 more and ends up killing some people in a car accident. am i truly responsible? no.

i do not think anyone at the bar should be held legally responsible unless it can be proven that she was coerced, in her drunken state, to keep drinking, then to drive.

djr33222

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 06:54 PM

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jam321

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 06:58 PM

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The investigator writes, "While reviewing the video I noted a white male deliver three alcoholic beverage drinks to Baukus at 1:38am, 1:43am, and 1:46am. These are the last three drinks Baukus consumes."

abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=9196050

A little more info...

Peace

edit on 7-8-2013 by jam321 because: (no reason given)

Iamschist

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 06:59 PM

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Originally posted by James1982

Originally posted by Iamschist
reply to post by winofiend

Getting someone massively intoxicated and then allowing them to walk or stagger away and go drive is not ok. I hope they nail him.

You are flat out making things up.

Are you doing this intentionally? Are you a drunkard that blames others? I'm trying to figure out what rat you have in this race, because you are fixed on nailing this guy regardless of the facts.

There is no evidence, and not even any claim that this one guy got her massively intoxicated and then "allowed" her to driver.

First of all, we have proof this woman is a liar. She said the guy put drugs in her drink, then she changed her story.

Second of all, it said he bought her drinks, it didn't say how many or at what time during the night. If he buys her 2 drinks at 6pm and by 2 in the morning she kept drinking and was out drunk driving is that his fault?

It seems like you want this guy to go to jail simply because he was buying a woman drinks. I'm not sure how old you are, but for a pretty wide margin of the dating population, going out and drinking is a pretty standard activity for both men and women. The men and women both go with the intention of drinking, and many on both sides go with the intention to hook up as well. That's really beside the point and none of your business what these two people were up to, it's HER fault she was drunk driving, not his, not the bartender.

You seem hellbent on blaming as many people as possible beside the person who actually did something wrong.

I did not mention the woman because she was already taken care of. It is one thing to socially drink and another to get someone intoxicated in order to 'hook up'. If you need that kind of help to connect with someone there are problems alcohol will not fix.

HomerinNC

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 07:05 PM

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Originally posted by jam321

The investigator writes, "While reviewing the video I noted a white male deliver three alcoholic beverage drinks to Baukus at 1:38am, 1:43am, and 1:46am. These are the last three drinks Baukus consumes."

abclocal.go.com.../local&id=9196050

A little more info...

Peace

your link didnt work
ETA found the story:
Story

edit on 8/7/2013 by HomerinNC because: (no reason given)

ETA: The TABC is now assuming 'they know' what Duran was doing:

Other people may have bought Baukus drinks, said James, but there are no plans to charge them. “Their conduct is not as obvious as what [Duran] was doing,” he said.

Duran is being charged under a section of the Texas Alcohol and Beverage Act, which deals with the sale of alcohol to an intoxicated person, James said. The prosecution is maintaining he was a party in the sale of alcohol because Baukus was so intoxicated.

I'm glad the TABC can now read people' minds and thoughts
Additional story

edit on 8/7/2013 by HomerinNC because: (no reason given)

rickymouse

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 07:13 PM

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Does anyone else think that thirty eight years is a little excessive, a person can cruelly kill some one with intent to do it and get twenty years in prison. I think twenty years....out in ten.....never able to drive again and restrictions on being in a bar or drinking would have been good punishment. It is not like this is first degree intentional homicide.

jam321

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 07:34 PM

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A news report video that shows the drunk girl stumbling and leaving.

abcnews.go.com/US/video/man-faces-misdemeanor-charges-for-buying-drunken-drivers-drinks-19882575

Wrabbit2000

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 08:08 PM

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reply to post by HomerinNC

I'm not the D.A., I couldn't say why. Whatever the details are, this guy has their attention and not however many others were there. Whatever he did was enough to have official focus though, so I imagine it's more than 1 innocent drink. That's what the system is for and perhaps he'll get his trip through it. It's something to remind people out there that getting someone blasted and then letting them drive or leaving them alone isn't a good thing on any level, if the simple morality of it isn't enough. Just my thoughts.

HomerinNC

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 08:11 PM

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It's something to remind people out there that getting someone blasted and then letting them drive or leaving them alone isn't a good thing on any level, if the simple morality of it isn't enough. Just my thoughts.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

The thing is SHE ditched HIM, they didnt walk out together, they didnt leave together, she ditched him and left on her own, how can he be responsible?

Dunno how she ditched him, maybe he went to the bathroom and left when he did

edit on 8/7/2013 by HomerinNC because: (no reason given)

Wrabbit2000

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 08:11 PM

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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I say good on this. 20 drinks is absolutely and obscenely drunk.

yes it is. but let's say i go to a bar and buy a lady a drink, her first drink. she then drinks 19 more and ends up killing some people in a car accident. am i truly responsible? no.

i do not think anyone at the bar should be held legally responsible unless it can be proven that she was coerced, in her drunken state, to keep drinking, then to drive.

Well, if you change everything about the incident here to be something it's not until coming up with something you wouldn't be responsible for, then no..I guess you wouldn't be.

Seems a habit lately.. Changing all kinds of things to draw a result and debate it...when it's only about what happened here and it sounds like he did enough to draw criminal attention. Why the strong efforts to defend someone that no one here knows and so far? Pretty much sounds like a scumbag? It's getting amazing to watch how the insta-reaction to almost anyone accused of anything is 'he didn't do it'...and then trying to figure out how?

ownbestenemy

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 08:42 PM

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Originally posted by Iamschist
Don't expect sympathy because a man thinks the way to court a woman is by getting her drunk, Excuse me? I think the bartender also should be prosecuted, just so you know. Given the number of people killed or maimed by drunk drivers every year, the penalties may not be harsh enough imho.

I believe the weighted average per 100,000 people is 6. That isn't that much; tragic I know, but why the vast attention on drunk driving when "health-care" related deaths are astronomically higher? Why is there no MAHD -- Mom's Against Hospital Deaths?

For comparison sake: 1 in 2100 persons in the United States will die because of a mistake by a doctor: surgery, medication related, etc. Whereas drunk driving? 1 in every 16000 will experience such a death (actually an "alcohol related accident" but for fun I say death).

Rough numbers found from the CDC and some were rounded off.

Wrabbit2000

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 08:47 PM

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reply to post by HomerinNC

Maybe a thousand things are possible that the story doesn't say.... Again, why are we bending over backwards to 'maybe' a path the guy didn't do what he's accused of? It's a situation worth following as I'm getting more curious why the police/prosecutor have looked harder at him.

In general terms though? If someone spent 10 minutes with her, as a figurative statement, and didn't significantly contribute to her drunken state? No biggy... How could they know, especially if they weren't there when she left to drive. if someone DID contribute in a measurable way or at the end and knew she was going out to drive? Well, the law is starting to take a real serious view on people allowing it to happen and doing nothing to stop someone who, by definition, cannot stop themselves.

The law shouldn't have to...because people shouldn't allow these things to start with, IMO.

TheRedneck

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 08:53 PM

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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

It's not just Texas and it's not just bars.

Cashiers at convenience stores can be fined (not just the owners but minimum-wage cashiers) for selling alcohol or cigarettes to underage people, even if they have no way to know the person was underage. Even the customer showing a fake ID isn't always a defense... cashiers have to be able to spot a fake ID.

A driver of a car whose passenger doesn't buckle up can get a ticket for not making them buckle up.

A person who just happens to be driving a vehicle with someone in possession of stolen property, irregardless of whether or not they knew or could have reasonably known the situation existed, can be guilty of receiving stolen property.

All of these examples of the ridiculous have one thing in common: they attempt to punish someone for the actions of someone else. Why? Because the police need someone to punish if a crime is committed, and it doesn't matter any more if they punish the right person or not. It's the ultimate way to ensure that everyone is a criminal, if not by actions and decisions, then by association or naivety.

Someone who is not breaking the law cannot be controlled; someone who is breaking the law can be controlled through fear. So the easiest way to create a population that is controllable is to make sure that everyone has legal issues. The easiest way to do that is to make sure that everyone can in some way be held responsible for something, whether or not they were directly involved.

Those who argue that the man who bought the drinks be held accountable... do you accept accountability for your neighbor who speeds? You could have stopped him from driving that day. Do you accept accountability for the co-worker who stole from your company? You should have made sure he couldn't steal, and it is through your negligence that he did so. Do you accept accountability for someone burglarizing the house next door while you slept? You could have alerted the authorities had you not been so lazy.

Strawman arguments? Yeah, you could call them that. But 20 years ago, the events this thread is about would have been called strawman as well.

I guess it is comforting to know that should anyone hurt you, there will be someone there to accept responsibility... if not the person responsible, then their employer, their friend, their coworker, or even someone they just met. But that also makes you responsible for the actions of everyone you interact with. Think about everyone you meet in a normal day... do you want to be responsible for their every action?

I know my answer... I am fine with taking responsibility for anything I do, but I will fight tooth and nail against taking responsibility for anyone else. I am no one's keeper but my own, and until I begin receiving a paycheck from the local police department, I have no duty to police anyone.

If you do want to be responsible for others, then keep arguing and good luck. But if not... please think about exactly what it is you are proposing.

TheRedneck

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

hounddoghowlie

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 09:20 PM

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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I say good on this. 20 drinks is absolutely and obscenely drunk. (They rate 15-20 shots out of a 1/5th or 1.75 bottle for bartending as I was looking up) I think anyone responsible for getting someone into that condition shares in what they do if they just walk away and leave the person in that condition. A lawsuit already got the bar, so good for them in getting the guy who it sounds helped get her THAT bad entirely by design.

The moral of this story, IMO? Don't get someone drunk as a skunk then walk off.

edit on 7-8-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

now how do we know that he was the one who left her. i know in my bar hoping days, there were certain women( bar flies) who preyed on the male patrons to buy them drinks until they had no money left or they didn't want to drink any more and would move on to the next or leave the bar. we always use to warn the poor saps what was happening.

for all we know from the op source that may be what happened here. if that's the case then it's her fault and not his.

edit on 7-8-2013 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

Wrabbit2000

posted on Aug, 7 2013 @ 09:40 PM

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reply to post by jam321

Thanks for your addition. It pretty well takes the hypotheticals out of it and shows why he got the focus. He may well deserve it too.

I guess we'll see how it turns out for whether it goes anywhere or gets dropped.