The NSA's New Spy Facilities are 7 Times Bigger Than the Pentagon

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Interesting, so are you suggesting what I think you are? Are you suggesting that the funding is coming from the mega-corporations that have been cooperating with the NSA? Sort of a you scratch our back and we will scratch yours operation? We will help you protect your intellectual property and stop pirating, and you will pay for the apparatus for us to do this?

That's certainly one possibility. Although I wasn't thinking of an specific source of income. Another possibility is the NSA gets funds from other places besides this Patriot Act, such as other Acts. Anywhere there is government money for National Security, the NSA is sure to have a hand in the cookie jar.

I find the doublespeak in the above mentioned passed amendment interesting. They only specify One source of money the NSA cannot use for these purposes. All of Congress would Not have approved this data center and it's uses if it had any idea it would soon be made useless by such an amendment. They are not going to waste that money spent on this building. They Knew what the building is for and they do intend to use it for storing our data.

The major problem is we don't know how much the Government gives the NSA - it's kept secret on purpose.

The Information Security Oversight Office’s (ISOO) 2011 cost report discloses a 12 percent increase from 2010 for the security classification systems of 41 executive branch agencies, including the Department of Defense (DoD).

But the report did not tally money spent by some of the most secretive government agencies like Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, the National Reconnaissance Office and the National Security Agency (NSA).

In 2011 Congress appropriated $54.6 billion for the government's 16 intelligence agencies, which was an increase over the previous two years, according to Andrea Stone of the Huffington Post.

But that number doesn't seem to even begin to quantify how much is spent on secrecy as it doesn't include the Pentagon's $51 billion "black budget."

And like the CIA, the NSA's activities and budget are kept secret. What is known is that the NSA intercepts 1.7 billion U.S. electronic communications every day and is currently undertaking a $2 billion, 1.8-million-square-foot expansion of its headquarters in Fort Meade, Md., in addition to building a $2 billion, a one-million-square-foot data collection center in Utah.

www.businessinsider.com...

To add some more info on the facility itself our pal George Knapp visited the place did a special report on it you can watch here:

www.8newsnow.com...

Admittedly the estimates of the amount of storage the facility will be capable of capturing and storing are speculation because NOBODY gets to know exactly (or even peripherally to be honest) what the NSA is doing thanks to the ultra secret nature of its legitimate tasks.

Speculation or not there is no denying the enormity of the facility and common sense would suggest a brand spanking new storage facility that is >1,000,000 square feet in size could handle a heck of a lot more than just "Terrorist Chatter".

This new facility, which was obviously started before Mr. Snowden started talking, seems to fit in perfectly with what we've learned about NSA's operations. Operations that have raised the ire of just about every thinking person on the planet. I believe it's a fair bet that this facility, the secret courts that authorize the activity this facility is apparently being built for, and all that data collecting will continue no matter how much ire is raised.

We truly are in a brave new world, and we are living in glass houses whether we want to or not.

reply to post by neo96


There are several reasons why this seeming ineptitude has gone ahead... the primary ones being urgency and affordability.

They do not have the time or money to build an underground base, this building is made from basic industrial components, like a factory throwing up breeze-block and metal walls for an extension - it can be done in a week.

That's why they haven't spent billions more on an underground base, it's all about cost, availability and speed.

You can also guarantee that there will be a backup of everything too, and that information will be distilled and stored in a more secure area.

There is no denying what this building is going to be used for, and there is no denying that this is indeed real. The speed is an issue because they know that the € is likely to collapse, and they know that this will hit the US population hard. They know that the US is in almost $17 TRILLION debt, and this can never possibly be paid off. They know that things are coming to a head and that the very existence of the NSA and their powers increases the risk of a massive civil uprising.

THAT is why this has been so hurried, so cheap, and so expansive. They don't give a damn about the threat of a strike from an enemy, because that is the least plausible scenario. They don't need to protect it from China or Russia. They are not the targets of the NSA, YOU ARE.

reply to post by whyamIhere


It would be hard and require an IMMENSE amount of computer power to scan for keywords in all those calls in real-time. I think you're right ... they'd have to record them and go back through them, sort of like SETI @ Home.

It is one thing to collect the vast amount of data that they are collecting. It is quite another to actually process it all, make sense of it, and actually prevent a crime, or terrorist act. How quickly, we forget that the government had all the information that they needed to prevent 9/11, but it sat somewhere on some storage device, and only AFTER 9/11 occurred did they go back and find the information. Of course, it is much easier to find data, when you know what you are looking for, and who was involved. The more data they collect, the less likely they will be to actually process that data in a meaningful way.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


It's called: "The Ultimate Blackmail Tool"

I'm sure all the info is tagged and searchable, that wouldn't take much computing power. Analyzing it in real-time would. This is why recent articles have said that "they" actually are storing more than just meta-data.

Are you a powerful senator that wants to gain the 2-3 votes you need? Call your friends within the intelligence community and quote, "find the dirt".

Are you a Congressman/Senator and get busted with a DUI and hookers in the car? We'll take care of that in exchange for loyalty on the votes we need.

Welcome to Washington.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
The more data they collect, the less likely they will be to actually process that data in a meaningful way.

This is just yet more evidence that this facility and the intentions of the NSA have little to do with terrorism. As you say, if it really were about that, they would only need the capacity to locate key phrases, and then follow those they find using them. This is a targeted effort, and what we would probably all support, what the majority of people believed they were doing. They already have the capacity to do that and it wouldn't require a facility with the capacity of the one in Utah.

But this mass gathering of all data and information is useless for the purpose of preventing terrorism, it's more ineffective than searching for a needle in a haystack, they've gathered up all the haystacks in the world to look for a needle, making success against terrorism even LESS LIKELY.

The ONLY reason they would need to gather all data on all people is for building files on every individual, and then using that information for other purposes.

There is no getting away from this fact, gathering information on a political leader, journalist or a judge, and building a file on them is fascist in nature. This is the most plausible explanation for that facility and the computing and storage power it has, and therefore people have a right to be very concerned about this.

When you combine that suspicion with all the other acts of the US government, it makes for a very ugly picture. Whenever I talk about this issue I remember those MTV ads from a few years ago...



People should not underestimate how easily history can repeat itself.

This is just yet more evidence that this facility and the intentions of the NSA have little to do with terrorism.

reply to post by Rocker2013

That is exactly my point. Unfortunately, the MSM will not point out that simple fact, and as usual, is complicit with the government's scheme. The result is that crimes will not be prevented, although that is what they claim the site is for, but if they want to "get" you, they can easily search for what is considered incriminating or embarrassing "facts" and use them, either to blackmail or prosecute you for questionable "crimes".

nothing is going to be done to reverse this, how we now communicate will have to change . Americans will have to adapt or leave. when our own elected representatives cannot access, or have control over, this massive security megalith, all of our "rights" can now be adjusted to fit someone's notion of crime prevention or deterrence. this is power held by kings and dictators, not a democratic republic. even using the "reasonable suspicion" in place of the "probable cause" in matters concerning questioning and detention, nullifies the very freedom our ancestors fought for over 200 years ago, against king Georges English red-coated security forces. the national security complex is well on it's way to turning our nation into a police state. if you read up on the countries that have turned into this type of governance, the evidence of this happening here is abundantly clear.

“this is more than just a data center.” It hopes to be the ultimate code-cracking facility:

Think about all that data being stored and run through programs all the time... Makes me Ponder...
What kind of code are they trying ot crack ?

WarGames comes to mind too... I don't know why ~

The Size of This SUCKERS capabilities has my mind reeling...

Flowing through its servers and routers and stored in near-bottomless databases will be all forms of communication,

Some of my other initial thoughts on this:

After all we do live in the Technological / Cyber Information "Knowledge" Age... Whatever you wanna call it.

Back in the World War days it was more important to have heavy military presences.
Do you think that our gov't recognizes that it is imperative to have this type of facility because
everything has moved toward being "plugged in" and this is where they will gather information and knowledge.

Let's ponder something...If we fall behind in this category what do you think would happen ?
Do you think a fracture could fissure its way into our national security if we don't stay on top and have a facility such as this ? Or does it not matter one way or the other... are we better off without it ?

"NSA would like to confirm, on the record, that the Utah Data Center is a state-of-the-art data facility designed to support the U.S. intelligence community's efforts to further strengthen and protect the nation.

"It's just a big file cabinet out in the Western area," said George, once a senior technical leader at the agency. "There is no spying going on there."

Of course we do all know this type of thing can lead to good or bad... both sides of the coin will always be present...in anything we do.

I duhhnooo... I'm still reeling around in my chair thinking about this...

leolady

Think about all that data being stored and run through programs all the time... Makes me Ponder... What kind of code are they trying ot crack ?

reply to post by leolady

(First, let me state that this post is NOT directed at anyone in particular, nor am I disparaging anyone on this thread.)
It's the government. When have they done anything right? Sure, they can audit people they don't like, but stop 9/11? No way! They had the information and ignored it. The vast majority of government workers are one level above moron. Yes, they have all that data. but again, having it, and making sense of the nearly infinite possibilities for that data is quite another thing. People give the government much more credit than it deserves. Stop any Presidential assassinations lately? No. Prevent two morons from causing death and destruction at a marathon? No way. Stop any bank robberies lately? Nada. Prevent Wall Street from stealing billions from Americans? Cure cancer yet? Develop a health care system that doesn't bankrupt all of us? Prevent 11,000,000 illegals from crossing the border? Ha!
The government has one thing going for it- it has the biggest collection of crooks gathered in one place, DC.
Do you know how many of these data processing systems cost billions and ended up being canned because they were huge flaps? The government is the gang that can't shoot straight. The only thing they can do is steal your money, but then again people let them do it. When people finally stand up to this group of crooks, then things will change, but as long as people are more interested in their iphones, ipads, pro sports, American Idol, and other "bread and circuses" distractions, the theft of your future will continue.
Have a nice day, people.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by kloejen

 

".......Now the OP here didn't seem to take as obvious and without saying that the NSA may well have much more, MILES from this visible construction and connected underground. So, it seemed a worthwhile thing to mention, but more importantly? Such observations tend to start additional conversation. The sharing of information and details often follows...and that often leads to NEW knowledge *I* didn't have before.

So, you see, there really is a method to my madness beyond simply posting stupid crap for people to make such comments to me about. Thanks for the observation though.

I think your observation(s) and your desire, like many of us here at ATS is completely valid. Some of us find certain subjects/topics such as this one very interesting and either have new or different information that adds and contributes to the discussion.

Since this whole NSA discussion has become almost a daily discussion full of potential conspiracies about the personal violation of everyone on the face of the earth, I think it has gotten way exaggerated.

First let's look at the mission NSA/CSS

The National Security Agency/Central Security Service (NSA/CSS) leads the U.S. Government in cryptology that encompasses both Signals Intelligence (SIGINT) and Information Assurance (IA) products and services, and enables Computer Network Operations (CNO) in order to gain a decision advantage for the Nation and our allies under all circumstances. The Information Assurance mission confronts the formidable challenge of preventing foreign adversaries from gaining access to sensitive or classified national security information. The Signals Intelligence mission collects, processes, and disseminates intelligence information from foreign signals for intelligence and counterintelligence purposes and to support military operations. This Agency also enables Network Warfare operations to defeat terrorists and their organizations at home and abroad, consistent with U.S. laws and the protection of privacy and civil liberties.

Of course, much more can be researched on the full scope of the NSA/CSA and the not so much mentioned NRO which is tightly webbed together with the NSA, CIA, DIA and other Intelligence gathering agencies.

Then there is a need to understand what/how information is gathered, the technology. This is just what we know by way of public knowledge and publications:

The stages of supercomputer application may be summarized in the following table: Decade Uses and computer involved 1970s Weather forecasting, aerodynamic research (Cray-1).[72] 1980s Probabilistic analysis,[73] radiation shielding modeling[74] (CDC Cyber). 1990s Brute force code breaking (EFF DES cracker),[75] 2000s 3D nuclear test simulations as a substitute for legal conduct Nuclear Proliferation Treaty (ASCI Q).[76] 2010s Molecular Dynamics Simulation (Tianhe-1A)[77]

Then we also must consider Some Hidden Government Sites / Operations
And then of course all of the Government Laboratories and Research Centers

Department of Energy DOE National Laboratories Argonne National Laboratory Brookhaven National Laboratory Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory (INEEL) Lawrence Berkley National Laboratory Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Los Alamos National Laboratory Oak Ridge National Laboratory Pacific Northwest National Laboratory Sandia National Laboratory

So, I could go on and on. But the point is, that there are a ton of Government Secret/Not-so-Secret sites, locations (let's not forget Area-51) laboratories, test facilities and the many educational universities such as MIT that are all working on a variety of secret projects.

I'm not one to run to quick conclusions or jump on the conspiracy bandwagon so quickly. However, it is threads like this and the thoughtful observations of others that make me want to research, learn more about things that interest me, or finding out about some things I never knew about.

So I thank the OP for opening this thread. Just a last comment on your observations "Neo96", Agreed, I believe that there is something we are missing. Perhaps there are already underground tunnels beneath this facility? Maybe it's a complete decoy, (look here, look at this), meanwhile the 'real' thing is somewhere else and completely operational. There has already been testified in open Congressional hearings that there is a ton of information already gathered and is being used, all before the Utah complex is finished! Hmm??

Funding: [url=On September 10, 2001, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld held a press conference to disclose that over $2,000,000,000,000 in Pentagon funds could not be accounted for. Rumsfeld stated: "According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions." According to a report by the Inspector General, the Pentagon cannot account for 25 percent of what it spends. 1 Â 2 Â Such a disclosure normally might have sparked a huge scandal. However, the commencement of the attack on New York City and Washington in the morning would assure that the story remained buried..Where does all the funding come from? One option!

reply to post by neo96


This is probably necessary where I live. I live in the planet's most ethnically diverse region. I am currently in some type of war with my nationalistic landlord who lives in the front house and who is terrorizing me, in my opinion. I am a true American Boy Scout, and I am glad to know we are ready to kick ass at a moment's notice. God Bless the USA!

reply to post by neo96


Taking a look at that picture is reminiscent of Nome, Alaska during the Cold War...Who do you have to piss off to get assigned there!!!

Originally posted by FreeEnergyChick
reply to post by neo96

 

This is probably necessary where I live. I live in the planet's most ethnically diverse region. I am currently in some type of war with my nationalistic landlord who lives in the front house and who is terrorizing me, in my opinion. I am a true American Boy Scout, and I am glad to know we are ready to kick ass at a moment's notice. God Bless the USA!

Hahaha, very well and succinctly said. I like it, especially about the kick ass at a moment's notice part
Regarding your other problem, I may know some people that know some people that may be able to help resolve your current dispute with your neighbor.

I kind of see it as a common progression of an advanced society. Hopefully we can all agree there are good and bad people in the world. With the rate at technologies progression it's not far fetched to believe people in the future could pose significant threats utilizing the free information available mixed with advanced available technologies to cause mass mayhem. It's becoming easier and easier for a single rogue person to inflict mass casualties. This is most likely the primary reason for having such an in depth intelligence apparatus focused on the public.

reply to post by whyamIhere

It takes lots of space to keep our recorded calls.

Yes, I said recorded calls. Does anybody think they are not recording calls.

They've pretty much admitted as much.

I'm not surprised they are doing it, my big surprise from Snowden is that they are able to ARCHIVE and store it! Can you imagine how many (not even sure of a term for it) bytes of storage this would take, per day, per person?

reply to post by neo96


My guess is they don't care about other countries noticing because this is all about spying on Americans.

Telling ya the enemy is within the government agencies all the way up to the WH.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


You think this is limited to just Americans?

No way. Which opens up all kinds of cans of worms, that nobody is talking about.

1. What about international corporate espionage info?

2. WHO is controlling access to the material?

3. Who is to say they aren't selling this info or using it to commit crimes?

4. If it is there, can we subpoena the info for use in court?

reply to post by neo96


Really something interesting. Just on another thread here on ATS regarding a large and suspicious complex being built in the Ozarks.and other underground facilities surrounding Arkansas, Missouri, Kansas and Oklahoma.
The link to that thread is ATS - Ozarks Conspiracy
NOTE: that is on another topic/thread so read if you wish, I only brought it to attention because it led to a subject matter relevant to THIS thread about the New NSA facility in Utah.

I am not endorsing, giving credibility to the following, but over 3 years ago on a Cable show called TruTV a segment hosted by Jesse Ventura aired regarding large numbers of 'Fusion Centers' being built or already built all across the U.S.
This show was pulled from the air. Reason being, IMHO, make up your own mind, the episode clearly talks about everything the NSA is being called out on right now about pulling data together and analyziing it. But this was over 3 years ago.

If you have any curiosity at all, then I ask you to view this show and see for yourself some startling facts that were made known, but have now since been removed from TruTV, but can be found on the internet. Here is the segmentscope of the data, who actually runs the centers, reports to who?)


And then here are a few relevant links about the 'so called' FEMA Centers or Fusion Centers that would make anyone interested in finding out more about this whole web of stories and its connection with our Intelligence gathering intentions.
Ventura FEMA FUSION Episode pulled from the air.

Next a link to ACLU Executive Summary on Fusion Centers

I obviously cannot say I know any of this to be true, but there is the information, some of which that has been tried to be suppressed, and just as stated in the ATS link above, makes the 'Rabbit Hole' even bigger. You decide and comment as you wish. Peace!! ID!!!