Swiss woman gang-rape: 6 accused awarded life imprisonment

Some may recall this original story and here is the update to how it's turned out.

The original story is linked at the bottom. It made for some especially bad publicity for them, to say the least and I recall some reports of tourists cancelling trips as a result of this attack.

Well, India may have growing pains in crime and other areas. They are a nation of over a billion people, after all. It takes all kinds and some of those will tend to be the worst. India certainly does seem to have a clear sense of punishment to follow the crime, though.

Datiya: Six men accused of gang-raping a 39-year-old Swiss woman on March 16 this year in Datiya in Madhya Pradesh have been awarded life imprisonment by a court.

While four of the accused were charged with gang-rape, two others were booked for robbing and assaulting the woman and her husband.

Source

That is something I'd sure consider to be a deterrent. Life in prison is about as strong a statement to other would-be offenders as I can imagine it getting. Although, given original reports, it doesn't sound out of line either.

Here is a link to the original story:

Swiss cyclist gang-raped in India

It's not often the stories we see across here have follow-ups, and especially fairly good ones in terms of how a bad situation can turn out. I'd say this is about as good as anyone could have asked, given what happened to start.

Punishment is fitting though I fail to see how it is a deterrent.

There is every likelihood breaking into somebodys home is going to result in your death yet break-ins happen thousands of times a day.

Deterrents are a nice fantasy.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


A total surrender on the deterrent factor rather negates the purpose of any layered criminal justice system entirely, doesn't it? If it's 100% and simply about removal of the criminal element and nothing else? The 1800's American approach of hangings the town folk came out to watch like entertainment worked too.

I think deterrents can be very effective if they are a near certain outcome to a given action. It's not worth much in the US system because even outright murder may or may not lead to life in prison. It may or may not lead to 15 years ...heck, it could be pled all the way down to 5-10. Not much deterrent there given the types who often commit the crime to begin with. (Outside of passion)

I believe if this sentence for the gang rape is a consistent one, then it certainly would tend to give people a moment of pause. Is raping a tourist really worth throwing away everything the rest of life may have ever had? I'm guessing Indian Prisons aren't pleasant places, too.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Six men accused of gang-raping a 39-year-old Swiss woman

They left out castration and frontal lobotomies.

In My Not So Humble Opinion!


Just saying.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

A total surrender on the deterrent factor rather negates the purpose of any layered criminal justice system entirely, doesn't it?

Pretty much.

If it's 100% and simply about removal of the criminal element and nothing else?

Termination and life lock up would reduce recidivism to near null and it is my understanding that by and large violent crime is a product of re-offenders.

The 1800's American approach of hangings the town folk came out to watch like entertainment worked too.

Did it work? I'm not up on my 19th century America crime stats.

I think deterrents can be very effective if they are a near certain outcome to a given action.

Impossible without erecting a massive 24/7 perpetual surveillance grid.

It's not worth much in the US system because even outright murder may or may not lead to life in prison. It may or may not lead to 15 years ...heck, it could be pled all the way down to 5-10.

Yup.

Not much deterrent there given the types who often commit the crime to begin with. (Outside of passion)

Opportunity, insanity, passion, simply not believing you will be caught, none of those can be deterred.

I believe if this sentence for the gang rape is a consistent one, then it certainly would tend to give people a moment of pause. Is raping a tourist really worth throwing away everything the rest of life may have ever had? I'm guessing Indian Prisons aren't pleasant places, too.

You really believe somebody would say "gee, id really like to rape this woman but I might go to prison so I wont"?

Rapists arent normal people teetering on the edge of to rape or not to rape. You are either a rapist or you arent.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

Rapists arent normal people teetering on the edge of to rape or not to rape. You are either a rapist or you arent.

On traditional rape? I agree. However, this was a Robbery turned to rape where a couple of them didn't even participate in it. They got life with the ones who did. Now, I call that justice. The two who are going down equally may have had a word or two to say about the rape being added to the robbery at the time, if they'd known to consider it would be a Capital Crime for how it was charged/sentenced though. Just my thinking on that......

@ Slayer69

I'll go with Castration ..but if it's to be life in prison and, hopefully that really means life in India, why give them the mental escape of lobotomy? (grin)

I'd want them to experience and live every minute of every day. Then again, I really can be viciously creative at times and can just imagine their lives in prison as infamous tourist rapists. Probably not the most ...admired thing to be anywhere, eh? I'm thinking close, intimate contact won't be something they'll feel is lacking in their lives.

The Indian government needs to do something.

Apparently, (gang) rape is very common in India and it would seem as though the crime is not treated as a serious offense until recently.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I'll go with Castration ..but if it's to be life in prison and, hopefully that really means life in India, why give them the mental escape of lobotomy? (grin)

I like your way of thinking but...


If they are as twisted as this they may still hold onto some perverse pleasure from the act....

But Jesus says its okay if you marry afterwards and the woman isn't engaged or married.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Six men accused of gang-raping a 39-year-old Swiss woman

They left out castration and frontal lobotomies.

In My Not So Humble Opinion!


Just saying.

Should we then castrate people for reading the Bible? And following its laws.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Punishment is fitting though I fail to see how it is a deterrent.

There is every likelihood breaking into somebodys home is going to result in your death yet break-ins happen thousands of times a day.

Deterrents are a nice fantasy.

I don't agree with this last statement. I believe deterrents work, just not the kind that we have now. Jail is not a deterrent for rape. The thought that the predator might be raped is a mild deterrent. However, if we were to introduce castration for these kinds of crimes, than we would see a sharp drop world wide. Of course they would never do that in India, because they don't really value women over there. That place is extremely misogynistic.

reply to post by iamusic


So what's the appeal of castration as punishment?

Rape isnt about sexual drive. It's about power.

Even if it were about sexual drive castration does not eliminate it. It will be reduced over a period of time but it is not eliminated.

Do folks just relish the idea of lopping testicles off?

As a power-driven crime I would think that having my testicles cut off would incite me to rape and attack more out of anger and a sense of vengeance.

Originally posted by Miracula
Should we then castrate people for reading the Bible? And following its laws.

I guess I'm missing your take on the topic here.

Are you in favor of gang rapes?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


It's a good outcome, all things considered. I am not sure about the deterrent aspect, but that is always a grey area. If you take it in comparison to the 2012 gang rape on the Delhi bus, that led to gang rape being made into a death penalty offence, if the victim subsequently dies as a result of their injuries, then you can see that the deterrent there is simply to make sure you don't hurt your victim too much to cause death at a later date. The real issue though, in terms of whether it is a deterrent, is how good law enforcement is at an investigative level. I should imagine in the case of tourists on whom the economy depends, they throw all their resources at it, but elsewhere, I wonder. In which case, my concern would be, whether a life sentence is merely a licence to murder and eradicate witnesses.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Very well said. While castration may diminish sex drive, it does not prevent erections, and as you say, rape is not about sex drive, it is about power.

Originally posted by iamusic

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Punishment is fitting though I fail to see how it is a deterrent.

There is every likelihood breaking into somebodys home is going to result in your death yet break-ins happen thousands of times a day.

Deterrents are a nice fantasy.

I don't agree with this last statement. I believe deterrents work, just not the kind that we have now. Jail is not a deterrent for rape. The thought that the predator might be raped is a mild deterrent. However, if we were to introduce castration for these kinds of crimes, than we would see a sharp drop world wide. Of course they would never do that in India, because they don't really value women over there. That place is extremely misogynistic.

I am not sure that I would agree with them not valuing women, not in general anyway. They value some women, just not all. The caste system is still very much in play, hence why I would be concerned at how effective a deterrent a life sentence is when generally applied. It isn't really justice unless it is applied to all.

Castration is only a deterrent if the crime is based on sexual drive, so it would be a deterrent against promiscuity or adultery perhaps, but not rape.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Miracula
Should we then castrate people for reading the Bible? And following its laws.

I guess I'm missing your take on the topic here.

Are you in favor of gang rapes?

No,
He thinks every thread is a taunt-the-Christians thread.

I think life sentences should automatically be commuted to death at 20 years.
It costs too much to keep these animals fed and guarded.
20 years is long enough for appeals.

Originally posted by badgerprints
No,
He thinks every thread is a taunt-the-Christians thread.

I think life sentences should automatically be commuted to death at 20 years.
It costs too much to keep these animals fed and guarded.
20 years is long enough for appeals.

It tends to work the other way around though...death sentences commuted to life...even so, judging by the number of people currently on death row in India...

As of 11 February 2013, there are 476 convicts on death row in India. States with the maximum number of prisoners on death row are Uttar Pradesh (174), Karnataka (61), Maharashtra (50) and Bihar (37).

en.wikipedia.org...

...what point does the death penalty even serve?

I am, for the record, completely opposed to capital punishment

That said, if death sentences were carried out quickly and efficently I could agree with you, but as it stands, and I am sure that statistics will back me up, it costs considerably more to execute a person than it does to simply keep them incarcerated for life. Even criminals have rights, and as such, have to be afforded due process, this applies to death row convicts more than any other. The cost is phenomenal to execute, all things taken into consideration. Besides, mistakes have happened, miscarriages of justice, mistaken identity, you name it...

ETA...

In California, home to the nation's biggest death row population at 667, it costs an extra $90,000 per inmate to imprison someone sentenced to death — an additional expense that totals more than $63.3 million annually, according to a 2008 study by the state's Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice.

www.nbcnews.com...

he authors concluded that the cost of the death penalty in California has totaled over $4 billion since 1978:

$1.94 billion--Pre-Trial and Trial Costs
$925 million--Automatic Appeals and State Habeas Corpus Petitions
$775 million--Federal Habeas Corpus Appeals
$1 billion--Costs of Incarceration

The authors calculated that, if the Governor commuted the sentences of those remaining on death row to life without parole, it would result in an immediate savings of $170 million per year, with a savings of $5 billion over the next 20 years.

www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...

Just to save anyone else from proving me right

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
rape is not about sex drive, it is about power.

Actually it's about Jesus. Since Jesus said he didn't come to do away with Old Testament law.

It's about righteousness and standing up for Jesus.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Miracula
Should we then castrate people for reading the Bible? And following its laws.

I guess I'm missing your take on the topic here.

Are you in favor of gang rapes?

Well if Jesus was the Word and was inspiring scripture to holy men by means of inter-dimensional communication, inspiration, before He actually crossed the boundary and came to earth and walked in a temple of flesh and blood called a body and he said that He didn't come to do away with Old Testament law and the woman wasn't married or engaged, what's the problem?

We do have religious freedom guaranteed by the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and soldiers who are willing to fight to protect our rights. Why not take advantage of those rights and not be punished for it in a manner not consistent with the Bible? Says you can't ever divorce all of your days if you rape a non-betrothed woman.

I think that is punishment enough. Especially if the woman is from America. Asian maybe. Australian maybe.

America, forget it.