DOJ Says Public Has No Right To Know About The Secret Laws The Feds Use To Spy On Us

This should be most important thread for ATS.

They are literally admitting, they know of secretive operations (more) and clearly confirming they don't want people to know.

It was obvious but now it just shows.

Originally posted by Anonbeleiver77
Remember this so that when people ask where you where when American Democracy died and a fascist state was ushered in you can tell them...

American Democracy is an illusion ushered in by liars to pacify the masses!
It could never have died because it has never existed!

Originally posted by Daedalus


I think it's to do with those of us with true conviction being terrified that our sacrafice would be for naught. whoever made that most absolute of sacrafices would be written off in the media as a mental case and marginalized as a radical, or a terrorist...and just like that, they would be forgotten....their death rendered completely meaningless...

that's why I don't think anyone has done anything serious yet..

I am sure you're correct. Being terrified that the sacrifice would be in vain. But I firmly believe that, like the Declaration of Independence says, that those of us who see something wrong and have the ability to change it, have a responsibility to change it. Remember the part about continued usurpations? I think that's what we're talking about here. Spying has been around a long long time. The mechanisms for spying change; the act of spying is pervasive.

When a Government spies on their OWN CITIZENS, this is a continued usurpation of power and authority. A secret court, with secret laws, with secret members, who set in motion laws that allow them to operate under the radar of oversight is a continuance of such a usurpation that the Declaration of Independence was designed to guard us against.

Human nature though, is funny. When there is a LOT to lose, people become complacent. When you have a majority that have NOTHING to lose? Then they scream for change and rarely find it difficult to do what is necessary. Go figure huh?

reply to post by dreamingawake


Before I go, and take care of what I need to for the day, I would like to quote a Wiki that describes the Gestapo. It defines to me, so clearly, why this thread that you've created could possibly be one of THE most important threads that ever existed here on ATS. Replace Germany, or SS any reference to Germany with US and USA and it's citizens or Gestapo with FISA Court, and it's hard to NOT draw a chilling parallel:

The Gestapo had the authority to investigate cases of treason, espionage, sabotage and criminal attacks on the Nazi Party and Germany. The basic Gestapo law passed by the government in 1936 gave the Gestapo carte blanche to operate without judicial oversight. The Gestapo was specifically exempted from responsibility to administrative courts, where citizens normally could sue the state to conform to laws. As early as 1935, however, a Prussian administrative court had ruled that the Gestapo's actions were not subject to judicial review. The SS officer Werner Best, onetime head of legal affairs in the Gestapo, summed up this policy by saying, "As long as the police carries out the will of the leadership, it is acting legally.

Source for Above

reply to post by alphabetaone


That's a scary thought (really is). I think it's ridiculous that law enforcers think they are above the laws they enforce in the supposed name of safety (more like in the name of staying in power). It's absolute nonsense to me these days to believe anything and everything governments do is for the own good of their citizens. They clearly have their own agendas and it is not to help the people but instead to help themselves by screwing over the citizens who keep them in power in the first place.

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
Just remember this when they come for you. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Even if you broke the law 20 years before it was law.

Really, so no matter what law it is we should just accept the consequences instead of fighting for our rights (or fighting against ridiculous laws)? There are far too many laws (a lot of them being ridiculous or downright unnecessary in that) for people to possibly know them all, let alone that they could be prosecuted for.

I don't think I could express my outrage better the then the OP and other members have already done. I blasted this story on FB, and I really am willing to take the "heat"......this is what I said........

hey we see MSM basically willing to defend the "talking points" that people such as Snowden are "traitors" because they were willing to risk their lives to tell the truth I think the message is pretty clear for those that are paying attention. Reporters and activists that try and challenge the government are being harassed , portrayed as "nut jobs" and even murdered, what do we do?
2 hours ago · Like

I think fair is fair, if our privacy and rights are no longer the "rule of law" in this country, then let's apply it to politicians as well. 24 hour surveillance, monitor their every move, impose random searches, lie detector tests and drug screening for all of them, oh and that would include judges and lawyers that that have total disregard with RIGHT and WRONG .

reply to post by TKDRL


LOL I said it as a joke...but I don't know about if ANON tried it.

Originally posted by alphabetaone
I am sure you're correct. Being terrified that the sacrifice would be in vain. But I firmly believe that, like the Declaration of Independence says, that those of us who see something wrong and have the ability to change it, have a responsibility to change it. Remember the part about continued usurpations? I think that's what we're talking about here. Spying has been around a long long time. The mechanisms for spying change; the act of spying is pervasive.

When a Government spies on their OWN CITIZENS, this is a continued usurpation of power and authority. A secret court, with secret laws, with secret members, who set in motion laws that allow them to operate under the radar of oversight is a continuance of such a usurpation that the Declaration of Independence was designed to guard us against.

Human nature though, is funny. When there is a LOT to lose, people become complacent. When you have a majority that have NOTHING to lose? Then they scream for change and rarely find it difficult to do what is necessary. Go figure huh?

even those with "nothing to lose" still stand to lose their lives...and that is more important than any material possession, societal status, or relationship.

the declaration of independence wasn't designed to guard us against anything....it was a statement to England that pretty much said "F**k you george, we're tired of your s**t, we're not putting up with it anymore". That is it's only historic significance..it marked our breaking off from the empire. now the constitution and bill of rights was designed to prevent, and to guard the people from such usurpation ever occurring again....but as Franklin said "a republic, if you can keep it".....the people dropped the ball, we failed to keep it. we (collectively) got lazy, and stupid, and allowed the government to do more than it was designed to do....more than it should ever be allowed to do...it stared decades ago, and now there aren't enough of us left to actually DO anything about it.....unless people pull their heads out of their asses, and realize "hey, this ain't right", we're screwed...

reply to post by rainprincess64


i believe the poster in question was be sarcastic.

This is tyranny. The truth is the DOJ has no right to tellvwe the people what our rights are because we the people define such.

reply to post by dreamingawake

Hey I tried to warn you guys back in 2009 ...

Surveillance Technology: Can they really watch everything?

Just sayin'.

Originally posted by VforVendettea
We have now not only reached Orwell's view of the future he wrote of in his book Nineteen Eighty Four, we have surpassed it.

I say this all the time. Today's world would make Orwell's head spin.

OK. He was pretty smart but there was one thing he really couldn't predict. Technological advancement. His description of the telescreen leaves the reader with the idea of something that - while frightening - does not fully explain how Big Brother has such an iron grip. It's basically just a surveillance camera.

The technology that has evolved today is much more frightening. The internet can basically read your mind (albeit in a limited way). I don't think Orwell conceived anything like a computer network with artificial intelligence constantly scanning for thought criminals.

Apparently we also have no right to as about what data they have on us! Might have heard that people are/were requesting their NSA data by the Freedom of Information Act.

"generally law-abiding citizen" from Ohio, curious about whatever data might exist on him, sent a FOIA request to the NSA. Their response to his request, and reportedly many more like it: We can't tell you, because it's classified. Meaning, the NSA is evidently classifying all its information on everyone,
continued at source

Also see, as shared last month: NSA: If Your Data Is Encrypted, You Might Be Evil, So We'll Keep It Until We're Sure

I'm not sure that I understand... Unless you are committing a felony and actually DOING something that you can be imprisoned for, what does it matter if the government is 'surveilling' you? And, why would they even care about you or surveil you unless you are doing the above?

Originally posted by TheIceQueen
I'm not sure that I understand... Unless you are committing a felony and actually DOING something that you can be imprisoned for, what does it matter if the government is 'surveilling' you? And, why would they even care about you or surveil you unless you are doing the above?

what does it matter?

how about it's none of their goddamn business, for starters....and how about they have no right?

any of this registering?

reply to post by TheIceQueen


Do you object to living in a glass house? Because that is what it is like for some people to have their "electronic life" spied upon. It is like that, or having cameras installed all over your house.

Originally posted by TheIceQueen
I'm not sure that I understand... Unless you are committing a felony and actually DOING something that you can be imprisoned for, what does it matter if the government is 'surveilling' you? And, why would they even care about you or surveil you unless you are doing the above?

This thread isn't really even about surveillance or not. It's about how it's none of our business to KNOW about it or even question it, question the legality of it, OR to question the laws being made in secret. This country is not one where laws can even be made in secret.

Honestly those are 2 radically different issues.

With respect to your question....I'm sorry, but let us not kid ourselves....EVERYONE has something to hide.

This is creepy, but there's a difference between the laws that are passed, vs those they can actually enforce.

This isn't a stealth power grab, but the flailing of a desperate leadership.

Throughout history other despots have passed similar laws when they were on their last legs.

Sure, it should be exposed and opposed, but don't see it as an impending police state.

Most people working for these guys can't stand them either.

Originally posted by Daedalus

even those with "nothing to lose" still stand to lose their lives...and that is more important than any material possession, societal status, or relationship.

In theory I agree with that. But, in the society we live in NOW? Those things you mention, are PRECISELY what everyone is afraid of losing. They value the material items, the societal status AND relationships far more. So focused on them that, basic rights granted us by the Constitution and those of us who fought for years to preserve them, are being pissed away by these meaningless baubles and those who espouse them.

Originally posted by Daedalus
the people dropped the ball, we failed to keep it. we (collectively) got lazy, and stupid, and allowed the government to do more than it was designed to do....more than it should ever be allowed to do...it stared decades ago, and now there aren't enough of us left to actually DO anything about it.....unless people pull their heads out of their asses, and realize "hey, this ain't right", we're screwed...

You're right. Which is where I joined this thread. Basically, my assumption is that the collective "headoutofassectomy" simply won't take place anytime soon, with the level of importance being placed on the aforementioned.