Train derailment sparks major fire in Quebec's Eastern Townships

reply to post by MidnightTide


Hard to say, isn't it? There were 73 or 74 cars, and from the pic, were we seeing the end of the train for sure?

Originally posted by MidnightTide

I will admit I know next to nothing about train derailments, but looking at this video it appears the derailment happened in the middle.....unusual no?

No. It isn't unusual. Most derailments occur behind the locomotives. Derailments mostly occur because something breaks. Mostly things break because a train is going over them at that time. It is common for derailments to happen between a third and halfway back in the train.

Originally posted by aboutface
reply to post by Montana

 

No mention of any crew whatsoever, leading the viewing public to wonder if there was any.

Trust me, there is a crew. The only time I am aware of there being no one in the cab of the controlling locomotive is during remote-control switching movements. And that obviously is not what was happening here.

Due to circumstances beyond our control this event may be censured?
Haven't seen purple fringing in night photographs like that in a while.

Very strange coincidence that someone got a picture of the train miles up the track with an exhaust backfire.
How does that happen with a high compression diesel engine?
Creosote could build up over time but its too hot for raw fuel to get pumped through a running diesel?
Maybe someone opened the compression relief valves on a long downhill stretch?

The train had been parked and the conductor was not aboard when “somehow, the train got released,” Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway, Inc Vice President Joseph McGonigle said on Saturday. “We're not sure what happened, but the engineer did everything by the book. He had parked the train and was waiting for his relief,” McGonigle said.

Source

Something is pretty fishy here. If the train brakes were released "somehow" then the alerter system should have placed the train into a full penalty brake status long before it could have reached a high speed. This isn't adding up for me.

reply to post by aboutface

Train derailment sparks major fire in Quebec's Eastern Townships,

Sorry to hear that,sad news indeed,especially for that peaceful area.

Originally posted by Cauliflower

Very strange coincidence that someone got a picture of the train miles up the track with an exhaust backfire.

I'm not sure anyone has said that the photo of the engine fire is the same train. It may be but we don't know.

How does that happen with a high compression diesel engine?

I explained as well as I could earlier. If you need more info you will need to talk with a mechanic type.

Maybe someone opened the compression relief valves on a long downhill stretch?

There are no compression relief valves (I assume you are referring to 'jake brakes') on train locomotives. The engines are not directly connected to the wheels in any manner that would allow that system to function.

reply to post by Montana


Actually the person who took the picture by the name of Nancy Cameron said it was the same one but the network is still trying to reach her for absolute confirmation. Assuming the conductor left the train in Nantes, and going by the elevation on Google Earth, Nantes is at 1765 feet and Lake Megantic is at 1339 feet.

reply to post by aboutface


Warren Buffet train? Instead of a pipeline? Our supreme leader is stressing "global warming" again.

I sure hope not.

reply to post by Happy1


Do you mind spelling it out more? I am missing the nuance here to climate warming and a Warren Buffet train.

Originally posted by aboutface
reply to post by Montana

 

Actually the person who took the picture by the name of Nancy Cameron said it was the same one but the network is still trying to reach her for absolute confirmation. Assuming the conductor left the train in Nantes, and going by the elevation on Google Earth, Nantes is at 1765 feet and Lake Megantic is at 1339 feet.

Don't know why they would be asking her, the engine number is clearly illuminated in the photo. The network surely has someone who can walk over and look at the number on the train. Asking a civilian to identify trains is asking for anything but surety.

Distance from Nantes is approximately 8 miles. A properly functioning alerter system should have activated in that length of time. MMA uses much older equipment handed down from larger railroads, maybe the system wasn't functioning or was broken and de-activated on that locomotive? Lots of questions.

Edit: After examining the photo more closely, the engine with the fire appears to be a GE locomotive with an American style cab dash 9 model (number 5017) I can't tell from the picture what railroad owns it, but this is certainly new enough that I would expect the brake system to be functioning correctly.

reply to post by Montana

The fellow who hit the water was just interviewed again and he said the train had trouble negotiating the curve, reiterating the high speed. He said he noticed the first fuel car canting and then the sparks.

Is it possible that the first fire could have caused damage to the brake system and gravity and weight caused it to roll?

reply to post by aboutface


No. The stack fire is not an extremely unusual occurrence. It looks spectacular in the photo, but think of it more as the engine lighting a fart. I'ts over in a second and it's not that energetic.

Unless I am mistaken about what is happening in the photo, it would be unrelated to the derailment. The only things that I can think of that would allow a train to roll downhill, reach that speed and go that distance would be

A. A complete and total failure of the air brake computer which released both the train and engine air brakes and disabled the alerter system.(Possible but I haven't seen this since the model was introduced 20 years ago.)

B. The train crew (conductor and engineer both) had reached the end of their legally mandated hours of service and stopped the train to wait for a relief crew (we know this happened). While waiting they got off the train and walked around near the train. While they were gone someone else climbed in the cab, started messing around with the controls and when the train started moving jumped off. ( Possible but only with a broken alerter system)

C. When they stopped, the conductor got down from the engine and started walking along the train. This is a common practice for conductors when trains stop (they are looking for equipment problems.) While the conductor was gone, the engineer leaned back in the chair and went to sleep. This is legal when stopped as long as one crew member stays awake. 'Someone' closes the valve connecting the air brake system between the engine and the cars (I have had civilians do this to me several times. Just being butt heads). 'Somehow' the train brakes are released and the train starts moving. Since the valve is closed the engineer cannot stop or slow the train. This scenario would require the failure of several other systems both mechanical and electronic that are designed to prevent this specific occurrence.

D. A combination of parts of all the above.

In other words, the cause will be something stupid and easily preventable by some who is omniscient, but no one else will even have thought it could happen.

reply to post by Montana


Wow. Thanks so much for all your input into this , Montana. I hope you never have to live through something like this in your daily work on the rails.

So it pretty much seems to boil down to stupidity or God forbid, sabotage? I guess the outgoing crew will be very busy answering questions today.

On another note, an additional thousand people have been evacuated from Fatima parish area because of toxic air.

RIP to all who may have perished. Prayers and best thoughts going out to all the worried families who are still waiting for news of their loved ones.

cbcnews

The derailed train belongs to Montreal Maine & Atlantic, which owns more than 800 kilometres of track serving Maine, Vermont, Quebec and New Brunswick, according to the company's website.

CBC's French service, Radio-Canada, has reported there was no one on board the train, which was being remotely operated.

The cause of the derailment is under investigation. A spokesperson for Quebec provincial police said it is still too early to say what could have caused the deadly incident.

RT

The train "somehow got released," and had no conductor on board, according to the rail company. The convoy of crude oil left the station of its own accord during a shift change in Nantes, west of the affected region.

"We're not sure what happened, but the engineer did everything by the book. He had parked the train and was waiting for his relief," Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway, Inc Vice President Joseph McGonigle said on Saturday.

I am not going to speculate on any conspiracy read both article for yourself and make up your own mind.

Train derailments carrying petroleum products in Canada have not been uncommon in recent months. An accident last week in Calgary, Alberta saw a train derailed on a collapsing bridge, threatening to send the diesel-carrying cars into the swollen Bow River.

Just so happened that the derailment in Calgary was during the MASSIVE flood in Calgary.

ATS search engine was slow and sucks which is why I started a thread, I asked for it to be removed. Here is my two cents

reply to post by whatzshaken


This is a conspiracy site and if there were something criminal in this situation, we would have to look to the ones who would profit from this event, both politically and monetarily. The thought will remain at the back of my mind until the full report is out.

My god...

I haven't read any news today and just logged in to see this thread.

This is horrendous !

All those people, the towns, the damage to the surrounding areas and forests... and the disasterous mess that's going to be left behind to clean up. I can't imagine what the families must be going through desperately waiting to find out what's happened to their loved ones.

What the hell happened ?!

Originally posted by CranialSponge


What the hell happened ?!

That's the question!

I can't think of a reasonable way for this to occur. And I've seen many many things on the railroad.

reply to post by Montana


Unbelievable...

How the hell could there not be an engineer on board ?!

A train loaded with explosive material being remote controlled ?!

Is that normal ?

reply to post by CranialSponge


There is no remote control trains. Every train has a crew. We don't know if there was or wasn't an engineer on board. We know the conductor was off at Nantes where the train was stopped waiting for a relief crew. Everything else is still up in the air. Your guess is as good as mine.