Who do you blame?

Well...that was interesting...the OP went through blank So here is your edit:

There are no shortages of arguments on a daily basis. A daily basis. Why? There are no elections going on that really invoke the political party differences. Local folks typically just do what the locals want, instead of what the party chairman wants.

So why do I have to have this ongoing political dialogue?

Even more, why do none of you really admit that it is a farce? I see repeatedly that people will acknowledge that the system is broke, is phony, is controlled by this or that. When does this translate into you ceasing to vote for the parties? WHy do Dems and GOP's keep winning if so many folks don't have faith? Are we that name brand oriented, consumers? That we can't match up the things we say into actions that break the cycles we put ourselves through?

So when I see a political debate, watching one side or the other argue it out about who, exactly, manned the oars in this handbasket on the way to hell, I can only say that it is your fault. If you vote for either of the primary parties in America, you are to blame. Plain and simple.

Flame away. Gnash your teeth. But then look in the mirror and see the face of the person who is bringing down America (and the world with it). Then go to bed and pray to whatever God you pray to that you will have to wherewithal and the courage to actually DO things that match what you say. What you feel. What you KNOW is right.

Because this hasn't been right for a LONG time.

I guess what I am saying is, vote your conscience. And if your conscience tells you to vote for one party or another...tell it to shut up.

Probably the C.I.A. - I think that about covers it, apparently it runs everything and we don't get to vote on any of it.

reply to post by darkbake


I see plenty of Obama symbols out there. Yes, that's right. He has a symbol.

So did GW Bush (the white W on a blue background). Our presidents are branded. Obviously, branding is an effective marketing scheme. And i can't blame them, as our political system is a huge marketing plan. Marketing for donations, marketing for votes, kissing babies....all the ingredients for a run..

But my point is, you can say "CIA" all you want. Fact is, there is no shortage of obvious supporters of various candidates parties. You see the whole bland, predictable "debate" all day on ATS. Funny, though...the "debate" is typically just repeating what is heard on various news channels by pundits. Everyone lines up according to their teams, and this happens day after day. While we call it "political dialogue", others might think it more a mix of gossiping, complaining, and supporting lies. Whatever floats our boat (that is sinking).

So why do I have to have this ongoing political dialogue?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Just because it is hard to nail one in the head...people these days should know more.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Yeah, following party lines on everything and not using critical thinking skills is no way to have a political argument. People who think like that can annoy me in real life, actually, even in non political conversations or activities.

reply to post by darkbake


It is a recipe for a predetermined argument. You can walk into any thread and expect to find very specific things said repeatedly. Predictable.

Perhaps I am growing bored with life in general. I need to move into other areas of interest. Perhaps interaction is becoming a sore spot for me. I am unsure. I wrote this thread mostly as a crusty outpouring of frustration after reading a few political threads last night, where predictable argument were flying everywhere, parroting the pundit du jour.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

When does this translate into you ceasing to vote for the parties?

Check my signature.

Before any election (including local), I research the candidates on my ballot, and see what their position is on issues. For important offices, I'll check their voting record against their stated positions, and see if it matches. I'll also check their attendance records. I will NOT vote for a guy who can't come to the job we PAY them to do. Take Obama for example. Horrendous attendance record. I don't even look at party affiliation...as I really could care less. I'm electing the guy (or gal) not their party.

reply to post by Gazrok


all i can say is, have more children. You are outnumbered by the partisan zombies.

ETA: thanks for removing the other thread. My badge of shame.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Flame away. Gnash your teeth. But then look in the mirror and see the face of the person who is bringing down America (and the world with it).

That has nothing to do with me, this is not america.

Then go to bed and pray to whatever God you pray to that you will have to wherewithal and the courage to actually DO things that match what you say. What you feel. What you KNOW is right.

God has nothing to do with it, and the way I live my life achieves so much more than 99.9% of any population regarding STICKING IT TO THE MAN and being the change so many seek.

You should be patting me on the back and thanking me for not being part of your problem.

Instead, you generalise and lump me together with those you blame. Thanks, but no thanks.

reply to post by nerbot


oh. well....then lets pat you on the back.

if it doesn't apply to you, i am not talking to you. unless i slipped up and put "nerbot" in there somewhere.

Girl, eat a skittle and turn that frown upside down,

and if all else fails you can blame a group agenda "Gay Agenda" "Straight agenda" "Race Agenda" "religion agenda"

take your pick girl and point the finger, but you better 'werk' whilst you do it

but to further add to the conversation, that is why i am an anarchist, even if it's a utopian pipe dream

Anarchy would be cool....for about a week.... Always the downside....

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Every "positive" trait has an accompanying weak spot. For example, people who are predictable in their arguments and haven't thought them through will not be able to make good counter-arguments to someone who has.

In addition, they might miss out on being a real person :-)
Maybe they just haven't gotten there yet.

They could be watching television, as well. Television makes this false reality that people tune into and it makes them act funny.

Let me break it down to the numbers in terms of why actually not voting for a specific party could actually work.

The voter turnout for the 2012 presidential election was 57.5% of all eligible voters.

President Obama received 50.4% of these votes.
That means 28.98% of the voting population elected our current president
Romney received 48.1% of the votes.
Only 27.66% of the population voted for Romney

That means that 42.5% of the eligible voters in this country did not vote and if they had voted for just one different person, we could've had a president that was neither a Democrat or a Republican. They would have had the majority vote. But instead, what you see are people that complain that the elections are rigged or feeling like they have to vote for either one or the other because god only knows what would happen if *insert major political party nominee* wins should they happen to "waste" their vote on some third party candidate.

The statistics are actually incredibly worse when it comes to midterm (non presidential) elections. These elections are fundamentally important as they dictate who becomes half of our Congress. However, in 2010, voter turn out for these elections was a whopping 41.2%. That basically means that 20+1% decided who was going to fill half the seats of congress. Is it any wonder why the approval ratings are so low?

People are unhappy with Congress but either a. don't vote or b. vote for their *insert major party here* and they expect some change if they keep doing the same thing over and over again. Same with the presidential election.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


Good points. But don't forget that the Electoral College makes that "if even one more voted" concept not quite work.

For example, I could have had 100k more votes for Ron Paul. Wouldn't matter. Texas will not go Libertarian or Democrate for the foreseeable future.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


The electoral college still makes it so that, whoever happens to be the elected majority in a given state, will get that vote (except in the case of a faithless elector). Both Hamilton and Madison didn't trust the uncleaned masses to be able to think sensibly about who was going to be elected. However, even if it didn't work, it would certainly send a warning shot across the bow of the political parties. Imagine what a message that would be, eh?

And p.s. electoral collage has squat to do with Congress and they are the ones that both craft and pass legislation...

Originally posted by WhiteAlice


And p.s. electoral collage has squat to do with Congress and they are the ones that both craft and pass legislation...

edit on 28/6/13 by WhiteAlice because: added ps.

Quite true.

And all the appointed judges.

I can see that, in the US and it's the same here, and in Europe, and everywhere. Politics is only for the privileged, it is such a small playground and it's getting even smaller, pretty soon all politicians will be from the same family, much like the royals of Europe (even though they are a charade).

Unless we get more Independents, more people standing up within their communities and fighting for the real issues the ordinary man cares about.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


While we want our jobs back from overseas, the government focuses hard on illegal immigration.

While we want affordable college for our kids, the government focuses hard on the middle east.

While we want "affordable" health care, the government focuses hard on hunting down terrorists that wouldn't bother with us if the government stopped trying to be the world police.

While we want to feel safe, the government focuses hard on drones and phones and security - to watch us! To probe OUR private parts at airports!

While we want to lead the world by example, the government is trying to lead the world by force.

Oh yeah, the government is broken. When you vote your conscience, just remember a no-vote can be a powerful tool with a LOUD message.

Good thread, Big!

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I have yet to regret who I have voted for in the past.

Am I partially to blame for the mess we're in?

Sure.

I'm all for gay marriage- blame me for the collapse of society.

I'm an old Tea Party member-blame me for wanting smaller government.

I'm against Obamacare- blame me for people having to pay for their healthcare.

I was in the military-blame me for countless deaths everywhere.

I'm anti-drone so-blame me for wanting peace and less war.

I'm all for Mr. Snowden- blame me for being unpatriotic.

I'm all for paying less in taxes-again, blame me for being unpatriotic.

I'm all for legalizing certain things like in Colorado-blame me for being a long-haired hippy.

I'm pro-gun-blame me for being pro death.

I'm anti-abortion-blame me for being pro-life.



I wish things were cut and dried good sir. But they aren't. People, being people, are contrary by nature. I'm no exception. Like I tell others, the last perfect person died about 2,000 years ago.

The rest of us just make it up as we go along.

Peace, you big hairy ape!