US and NSA accused of criminal privacy violations in dozens of countries -- Snowden blowback

Yeah, people in the US are doing Jack and Squat.

Want to know why?

Because it IS hard to do anything effectual. Here's a few thoughts that come to mind.

Vote them out? Sure. Elections are effectively rigged and even when you send patriots to WDC they end up drinking the cool-aid after a while or get blackmailed.

Many of the silent moral majority on the right couldn't hold their nose to vote for Romney - because he is a Mormon - and that is PART of what helped let Obama get back in. - but all this surveillance wasn't put in place by him.

The elected officials and judges are all blackmailed by the NSA surveillance. Everyone has a file. This is like East German Stasi. Remember when we found out Bill and Hillary Clinton had a room full of FBI files on their enemies? I do.

This surveillance is independent of any elected official. The spying has been going on since before Obama and - in a form - before Bush.

Hope the checks and balances save your butt? Obamacare upheld by the supreme court. Just an example. NSA spying is approved by a SECRET COURT. Yeah that seems legit. How much blackmail of the supreme court justices is going on? Hmmm?

Hope for someone in the media to be a knight in shining armor to come on the scene and break it wide open? Breitbart. Dead. Hastings. Dead. Majority still brainwashed by main stream press. (However, Alex Jones is getting way way more followers, the infowar is on)

Citizens banding together to take action? People are too busy working - all the time - to support the taxation and inflation being foisted on the populace. OR, people are unemployed and broke - can't afford to get out of town let alone do anything.

Regardless, with GMO running rampant and healthy food being expensive, people are growing increasingly sick and tired. Literally. I know a perfectly healthy former Marine - Has had a cough for 7 weeks now, getting sicker and weaker. Dr visits ineffective.

Once people get home at night all they can do is veg out in front of the TV for a few hours and stumble to bed, only to do it again the next day.

Write a letter to a congressman? Gets you lip service form letters and yourself probably added to a list somewhere.

Tea Party? Results in a blurb in the local paper and an IRS audit. Is that pessimistic of me? Yes.

Armed revolution? Talk about it too loud and you'll be visited by men in black suits, put on a no-fly list, or arrested for ... something. Adam Kokesh. Plus, how's that ammo shortage coming along?

Snowden is obviously being leveraged by the press to cover up Benghazi scandal, but this backlash may actually do something to change the situation. Might be a BAD something, but something none-the-less.

In the meantime, we in the US have to look on the bright side, hug your kids/spouse/pet/parent an extra time today, and carry on.

Yes it's hard. Even in the face of an uphill battle we can't give up. Keep up the infowar. The internet is the establishment's worst enemy. They can spy on it but they can't stop it.

reply to post by djmarcone


Americans are doing things. Over 100,000 have signed a petition to the Whitehouse to pardon Snowden. A whole heap more have organised rallies across the country for July 4. People are talking about it, the word is going out that perhaps something should be done.

And every time someone says, "It's pointless, nothing ever changes," a kitten dies.

Originally posted by bjarneorn


Although I have a tendancy to agree ... partially. I'd still want to tell you, that shrugging it off your shoulders and blame it on others ignorance is not a valid option for you ... because "those others ignorance" is actually a product of your victory. You put those idiot in powers, yourself.

I don't think you have a clue of what is going on ... for a very brief moment in time, prior to the Bush's. The US actually had a chance to make a difference in the world. But when the soviet union collapsed, you guys got drunk crazed with power mania.

I am not going to waste time, talking the history you have falsified with you ... nor trying to waste time on trying to talk about where you went wrong ... although the obvious error is to go shoot the messenger ... which brings me to this.

Have you ever read about the Chinese Qing dinasty and the Chinese Han dynasty? Well, Qing was a very cruel emperror ... a murderous scumbag ... much like America and their "pentagon" allies. In this place I'd like to point out, that the Pentagram has 5 arms, France, Russia, US, China and Britain. these are the 5 nuclear powers, and the 5 arms of the pentagram ... and it's heart, the pentagon is in the US.

nuff said ...

The Chinese emperror of Qing died, and in his place they put an idiot ... well, let's call im King George, just for fun.

To make a short story long ... the idiot, King George of the Qing Dynasty. Killed the messengers instead of listening to what they had to say. Because he didn't want to hear bad news ... as a result, of this error ... he lost his head, his Dynasty came to end, and so did all of his family of Qing. And out of the ashes, rose the most unlikely candidate of them all ...

The Han dynasty ... Han, not as in Chinese ... but as in Poor.

That, is basically where you are heading ... towards your own demise.

Good luck.

edit on 27/6/2013 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)

edit on 27/6/2013 by bjarneorn because: (no reason given)

Do you think this is a you vs me issue? If so, then YOU are the issue. I voted for not a single person holding public office today short of my mayor and a city councilman. I have no real nation. In the words of a great wise man, "Where there is freedom, that is my nation". Unfortunately, I seem to be a man without a nation.

reply to post by djmarcone


Then revolt. Plain and simple. The People have all the power they choose to have. Given our inner city population full of disarmed, neutered males....we can see the choices made in our nation.

Originally posted by SPECULUM
The Us Gooberment is the largest organized criminal syndicate ever devised...Are people just now waking up to this reality or what?

DURR

Truthfully its just an extension of the British financial empire.....
Nothing has really changed from feudal days........
Those who had the money and power then, still largely hold the same money and powers today.....
its a little more obscured today thats all.......Weve been hoodwinked for a couple of centuries with the idea of freedom, but not its institution.

Originally posted by antoinemarionette
reply to post by loam

 

How can you minimize a thing of such tremendous import?

The United States is spying on the citizens of it's own allies!

Don't you think that is a matter of true historic exception? Can you give me any examples of that having ever been declared by any country?

The place where these things will lead us is dark indeed and it has to be put to a stop through the solidarity of nations and the American citizenry.

edit on 26-6-2013 by antoinemarionette because: punctuation

Much agreed

and this is a bit off topic, but your avatar, did you do that? if sooo, effin awesome. I can dig some cubism!

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by innersollus

 

I'd actually be impressed by the global finger wagging, if I believed that they were any less hypocritical.

The truth is we are merely repeating human history. The tools may be different, but the intent to subjugate is not.

The US still has the best chance to pull this one out of a nose dive, but it requires accountability imposed by its own populous...

As we all certainly know, merely saying a thing doesn't make it true.

The world is a mess....everywhere.

edit on 26-6-2013 by loam because: (no reason given)

Agreed loam.Its as if the planet is in a nose dive with no pilot.This is the situation Revelations warned us about concerning the entrance onto the world stage of the anti-Christ.

Originally posted by buddha
tha american government agencies are paranoid!
and they are a danger to the world.

america is going the way of Roma of old.
the best thing other countries can do is to brack All ties with america.
so they dont take you with them.

but like a drownding mad,
america will try to destroy the rest of the world.

I believe you may be, in some way, correct.

It is a little invidious of an outsider to comment but, and I have no way of proving this, I am sure I read, some years ago, that the cold war and needing weapons was almost totally a prefabricated scheme dreamt up by a paranoid CIA and enjoyed by the arms industry.

But then I suppose that is just a characteristic of the mind of a "secret Service" agent, you have to distrust everything.

I am glad to see this debate broadening beyond the USA as it touches on the freedoms of individuals in every country. I have been aware of intelligence screening of e-mail and phones for almost 20 years( Echelon etc).
And whilst most people have tollerated it so far under the guise "if you do nothing wrong there is no problem" and "it is done to find terrorists and paedophiles"etc. They are only now waking up to the fact that this so called "intelligence" gathering is being used for all sorts of other purposes.... AND THEY DON'T APPROVE!

Now is the time to encourage them to voice their protest.... but which ways would be most effective??

When I first learned about Echelon, myself and others used to purposely put key detection words (from a known Echelon list) in every boring email we wrote in order to waste their time....... that was in 1993... a lot more people use the internet nowadays so I wonder what would happen if everyone just started doing that now ??

Originally posted by bowaconstricta
I am glad to see this debate broadening beyond the USA as it touches on the freedoms of individuals in every country. I have been aware of intelligence screening of e-mail and phones for almost 20 years( Echelon etc).
And whilst most people have tollerated it so far under the guise "if you do nothing wrong there is no problem" and "it is done to find terrorists and paedophiles"etc. They are only now waking up to the fact that this so called "intelligence" gathering is being used for all sorts of other purposes.... AND THEY DON'T APPROVE!

Now is the time to encourage them to voice their protest.... but which ways would be most effective??

When I first learned about Echelon, myself and others used to purposely put key detection words (from a known Echelon list) in every boring email we wrote in order to waste their time....... that was in 1993... a lot more people use the internet nowadays so I wonder what would happen if everyone just started doing that now ??

I am sure the computer systems are more sophisticated now - using Markov Chain methods to detect consistent sentences and not just a set of keywords in random order. They can practically identify someone from their typing style (length of sentences, favorite words and phrases).

Originally posted by stormcell

Originally posted by bowaconstricta
I am glad to see this debate broadening beyond the USA as it touches on the freedoms of individuals in every country. I have been aware of intelligence screening of e-mail and phones for almost 20 years( Echelon etc).
And whilst most people have tollerated it so far under the guise "if you do nothing wrong there is no problem" and "it is done to find terrorists and paedophiles"etc. They are only now waking up to the fact that this so called "intelligence" gathering is being used for all sorts of other purposes.... AND THEY DON'T APPROVE!

Now is the time to encourage them to voice their protest.... but which ways would be most effective??

When I first learned about Echelon, myself and others used to purposely put key detection words (from a known Echelon list) in every boring email we wrote in order to waste their time....... that was in 1993... a lot more people use the internet nowadays so I wonder what would happen if everyone just started doing that now ??

I am sure the computer systems are more sophisticated now - using Markov Chain methods to detect consistent sentences and not just a set of keywords in random order. They can practically identify someone from their typing style (length of sentences, favorite words and phrases).

I am sure the computer systems are more sophisticated now - using Markov Chain methods to detect consistent sentences and not just a set of keywords in random order. They can practically identify someone from their typing style (length of sentences, favorite words and phrases).

yeah I realise that...but despite that, surely the answer must lay in the Mass that can protest in such a way.... this is the strength of the net . (think of the Kony 2012 hype... apart from the message )
The people are willing to protest, even those leading busy lives ...

I feel very spied on when im out on the streets as the cameras are everywhere: coffee shops, regular shops, supermarkets, on the street, in the buss, subway and even some buildings where regular [=anon] citizens live one can see cameras. One of my neighbors is very paranoid: he installed surveillance cameras outside his apartment o.O i think some 4 of them? I live in an old type of apartment building

reply to post by smurfy


Actually a lot of police cars dont say (to protect and serve) that was years ago.

But they should .

Originally posted by kdyam
For some strange reason I believe the other countries when they say that this "surveillance" is a crime against humanity. They seem to understand that oppressing their citizens is counterproductive... although most of them have had an established government longer than we have in the US. I think that maybe they have learned from their past mistakes.

Our current administration has jumped on board the USS Obamanation and they are all going for a ride. Too bad they cant see the truth of the matter with all that spray in their eyes.

I am a proud US citizen.. proud to live in this country... but ashamed by those who currently run it. I do stay up at nights and wonder what my childrens future is going to look like when they embark on their own journey. Obama and his cohorts are a plague on this nation and hopefully we will soon find a cure.

What do you mean Obama? All this start as I recall after 9/11... It wasn't Obama who started the Patriot act.. It was a republican...

If you think Obama, Bush. or whatever else is any better than the other than you aint paying attention to well.. All these people republican, democrat, whatever else are all on the same boat and they are trying to bring this country down...

And last i checked, they only take order from the real leaders of this country.. Our elections are a farce, but as long as they have Presidential Idol things we be straight...

And also for the record the bailouts started with Bush also.. Everything that started start before bush left office and since Obama promised change we can believe in he delivered... Actually I dont believe him, Bush or anyone whos job it is as a politician...

::EDIT::

Also want to point out what i said above..

Eagle Eye movie 2008..
www.imdb.com...
This movie had an interesting point in it that said the government can listen to your phonecalls even if you shut your phone off, the only way that you can not have them listen is if you take the battery out..

Yaya movie.. Lets see how true it is...


2006
news.cnet.com...
FBI taps cell phone mic as eavesdropping tool

2007 when this was posted..


This makes the point that they used it on citizens..

Originally posted by innersollus
Everyone needs to read this, Its getting deeper and deeper each day.

www.dailykos.com...


Discussion on Reddit
www.reddit.com...

It may be hard for Americans to wrap their minds around this concept because, in their case, human rights are not directly conferred upon them, constitutionally -- and can be suspended by the Executive Branch or the high court at any time, if it is deemed (often secretly) to be in the best interest of the "defense" of the nation.

Read that last sentence again.

You are living in that reality. The citizens of other nations are not. Their constitutions declare and affirm human rights that are specific to the 21st century issues.

Americans have have little expectation of general human rights, many of which were circumvented by the Patriot Act. But, right now, the rest of the world is dismayed and outraged that the US has illegally breached their sovereign laws to spy on their citizens and businesses.

The world regards what the NSA is doing as an international crime and a direct violation of their human rights.

I will write my analytical point later, I just wanted this post to get out so the discussion can start.

I take offense at your quote saying that American's don't have constitutional human rights. What the hell does the author think the bill of rights is? What, because the constitution was written during the 18'th century, the bill of rights doesn't count? And you know, what? Cry me a damned river. In France, armed soldiers patrol the streets around famous landmarks, and their national police have tanks in their inventory. Yes, TANKS, with 90 mm cannons. Also, the French police keep dossiers on all foreigners who live in country, regardless of whether they have a previous criminal record. Such policies are also followed by the police forces in the Netherlands, Germany, Spain, and Italy. The "world" has no right to complain about the NSA when their own governments have followed the same policies for decades.

If some one asked me a month ago what do you think about the US gov , as a non US citizen a month ago i still considered them allies , we backed them up in Iraq and Afghanistan , no questions asked , some things have to be done , doing nothing is even worse , and no country or government or individual is perfect.

But over the last weeks i have developed a feeling im running on borrowed time , like a hellfire missile could crash into my appartment any minute, just because i exercise the rights that come with the country i live in.

Rights the US Government has nothing to do with , if you want to "process"me you must go to my nations Government and let them deal with me.

Spying on another nation used to be a crimminal act or a act of war , because spionage is nothing more then gathering and mapping information for a future Military engagement.

These drastic things should be discussed in open discussions , on a nation wide scale , the fact the US government makes it non negotiable is absurd.

Freedom comes with a price , but if the innocent until proven guilty factor is removed then Freedom is a lie , worthless , and a prison.

This is the case of hitting the dog with a stick as many times till it goes crazy then demand it to be shot.

I know this is turning into a more rant like post , it is not intended to attack anyone on ATS , i just feel betrayed.

TheGreazel.

reply to post by groingrinder


I say to hell with the world bring on the nuclear winter!

Originally posted by groingrinder
I am just waiting for that ICBM to come flying out of Europe and land smack on the NSA building. Tick Tock.

No, it's an EMP warhead that will destroy our entire power grid, collapsing our country, coming from Iran, the most evil and greatest threat that has ever existed on Planet Earth. I know this because the CIA told us so. The CIA and NSA know what's best for us. We should accept whatever they say. I # myself whenever I hear the word "Iran".

this is the only snowden I know of

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by Samuelis

 

Originally posted by Samuelis
So how are citizens of allied nations hypocrites?
Man your full of it.

Because their governments spy on allies and those citizens have done no better job at holding them accountable than the citizens of the US.

So when I see the finger wagging come from any of them, I'm not impressed.

So far we have only had evidence of the UK and USA carrying out such massive invasion of privacy. You do know the world is a pretty big place, right? There are more countries than just those the USA has worked with or attacked.

If you have evidence of European countries spying on billions of people, then show it. Otherwise, your point on hypocrisy is null and void.

Also, last time I checked, the people of the US didn't even know about this themselves, so please tell me how the people are supposed to stop something they know nothing about.

You think the British public knew about the massive spying of GCHQ?

American's didn't know this was happening, and the people of the UK didn't know this was happening. How the hell do you stop something from happening when you don't know it's happening?