It shouldn't matter if you aren't doing anything wrong

As resident of a colony of The Empire, which historically is just a few years behind the development of the mainland, I observe what happens in the USA.

At school, we've been taught how evil the Nazis were, but it was always sort of... as if they came down in flying saucers upon a peaceful country, grandma and granddad got brainwashed and went to war east, west, north and south and gassed six million jews. The Scholl siblings are mentioned and the Anne Frank diary, that's it, now make sure this never happens again. The official slogan when you grow up in Germany after 197x goes like "it's not your fault it happened, but it's your responsibility it doesn't repeat".

But you have to do your own studies to understand the historical context, how and what Max Mustermann (German for John Doe) was thinking after a Great War was lost and lots of reparations had to be paid to the victorious powers, how the NSDAP took care of the unemployed and veterans and made wild promises so they got elected - democratically.

Things are much different today, although 9/11 has been compared to the Reichstag fire, Bush with Hitler, FEMA camps with concentration camps, alphabet agencies with the GeStaPo and so on. These comparisons are convenient, as the Third Reich is fresh in memory as the evilest thing that ever happened, and nobody wants a fascist regime anymore, especially not in the US - it was, after all, brave U.S. citizens that fought and died to bring Hitler down and restore peace and freedom and all that is dear to us humans! How ironic would that be, the U.S. installing a dictatorship...

So, no, history is not repeating itself, it spirals, crossing the x and y points on a different z plane each time. The Nazis never lost the war, they just left Germany and went underground in America, and slowly, their worked their dark magic there.

Why was there no uproar in Germany when friends, neighbours and the nice shop owners around the corner were taken away, never to be seen again?

War abroad and surveillance at home are accepted as a necessary evil by the silent majority. In spite of the internet and smartphones, people have become disconnected and feel isolated and powerless. The "Occupy" movement fizzled out, the "arab spring" backfired, how discouraged can you get to start a revolution? What can one do as a dissenter but accept the new conditions and keep a low profile, hoping to slip through the net of semantic engines probing emails, facebook and twitter messages for any sign of "Wehrkraftzersetzung" - ooops, "terrorist activity", I mean....

At the end of the 30ies, mostly socialists were jailed in small concentration camps - there were hundreds and thousands of them. They got tortured, humiliated and dehumanized not by anonymous Nazis, but by the people they knew, sometimes even from school or as neighbours. A few years later, they were sent to the big and well-known concentration camps. They were the first inmates.

Later, the Jews came pouring in. The socialists, being long-time residents by then, who had somehow arranged with their guards - at least, they were "pure-bloods" still - were now given the task to organize everything happening inside the walls and fences, like distributing the food - which, of course, was sparse in a time of war. Soon the allies had bombed the railroad tracks - which was a logical thing to do since the concentration camps often manufactured strategic material with their cheap labor force, but also shortened the food supplies.

In a setting like this, where survival depended on getting something to eat that day, being commissioned to ration the food among your socialist buddies and those strange newcomers with that yellow star surely was a rough test of your high standards for humanity...

Thus, the dissenters forcibly became complicit in the great atrocity now known as the Shoah.

It's a different y plane now, but the same spot over x,y. If you want to eat, comply and do as you're told and try to justify it with lies and apologies in front of the highest judge, your conscience. Or you can hold on to your fancy ethics, speak up, stand alone and face starvation with the rest of the sub-people. Come on, how great are the chances that you can spark a fire with one great deed or speech to inspire your mates not to comply with the elementary rules of survival - in this very setting? Better keep quiet and alive.

When everything is over, and the camps are freed, you will have a story to tell - how you got into that situation in the first place, because you were a dissenter, a hero, and you and your buddies will have a g*d-given right not to be questioned how you were able to survive under these circumstances.

Fear not, all will be fine. Mankind is quick to adapt and will soon embrace the loss of privacy and freedom as a gain in comfort and security, and the next generation won't even know the difference anyway :-)

I always assumed that everyone was tracking you when we used the internet. Seems that the government shouldn't be excluded from that myself. I always thought they watched everyone on the net. I thought everyone was warned that what you put on the net was available to everyone. I don't feel bad that the government is monitoring what I say, I have a captive audience that way. At least someone has to pay attention to me. Now if I could just get my kids to listen to me I would feel better.

reply to post by DeadSeraph
I have to agree completely with you. The system, over time, has been constructed to slowly decrease our ability to stand up and make a real difference, and change how we are governed by the people WE voted into office. I hear all the time that all we have to do is be more involved,,vote, sign petitions, call our congressmen, and women and tell them what we dislike and everything will eventually change. Just look at what happened when we voted Obama into office. What were his exact words? Change is coming to America! Well, we sure got change alright! I believe the only change that happened was the implementation of their whole power structure over us. Now what do you see? Anyone who disagrees with what they do is frowned upon and referred to as a dissident!! Sure, we might be able to vote them out of office, but it seems that they always lie about their plans to make thing better for us. And even if we try to stand together and do everything to bring about changes in congress to make life better for us, how long before it all starts to turn back the other way?? You mentioned it might take a complete collapse of the whole system to be able to start over and make things right,,well,, I am beginning to think not even that would help us because if the system collapsed, martial law would be implemented and they would have us right where they want us, totally depending on them to get us out of the mess they created. It is a never ending vicious circle. Greed rules. Greed is the king. Long live king Greed!!! This planet used to be garden of eden-------Before MAN.

Originally posted by Bluesma

Originally posted by kkrattiger
reply to post by Bluesma

 

I disagree with your premise... Your apathetic "Im not a criminal so nuthin to hide, & never expected privacy in the first place" stance, & your analogy of living in a town being akin to this subject. What, do you think this is just a big 'ol community? The whole internet? The problem with your statement is that there is no pavement & ground tech used throughout the city limits which records every movement, by whom, to where, for what & how long, on a regular basis?, ...

I can only guess you have never lived in a small village. There are people who sit on their porch and watch all movements going on by community members- one couple here had a notebook for keeping track. Everyone knows if you missed your bowel movement in the morning, or if you failed to provoke an orgasm for your wife that night, or what you said at that banquet and to whom.

But like I said to the other person, if it really bothers you for some reason, pull out!
You have a choice.

If your insults and calling me pathetic and all were such a big worry for me, I would not post on public message boards, right? Recognizing I have a choice is useful to keep in mind.

edit on 9-6-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)

Your analogy still makes no sense... A small town is just that. A small town. If people keep tabs on one another because they are nosy and bored, that has no impact on the future of a nation (or the world). Old grandpa jim can keep his notebook, because at the end of the day he's just grandpa jim and doesn't have the authority to put me in prison without due process.

I'm not sure why you can't seem to grasp the dangers involved here, or see the potential for abuse by the government. Maybe you just don't want to? If you can't understand why these issues concern people after this many pages of discussion I can only assume you're either willfully ignorant or in a position to benefit somehow? Maybe all you saw was a personal insult and you haven't actually bothered to read the thread or try to understand a different point of view?

Put your emotions aside and quit playing the victim for a minute and think about it logically. Is the U.S government spying on it's people and collecting data on them, in combination with the erosion of civil liberties, less or more of a threat to U.S citizens than nosy neighbors?

Edit to add:

Please watch this. If you still don't understand the dangers, then so be it. At least listen to what a whistleblower has to say about his reasons for disclosure.

I know this is going to sound very typical but well think about it. If the NSA wants to do anything it really doesnt matter what we have to say about it because the people really wont make a difference unless we gather in groups. I forget who said this but its a very relevant quote "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable." If someone knows who said this then feel free to say so. I forget. But to continue we should all really start to understand how and why they are doing what they are doing. They obviously show no regard to our wants or our rights. They are only doing what they feel will benefit them in the long run. The only way to stop this is to stop the people right at the source. Change those in power and replace them with people who care more about "the people" and less about themselves. Another thing I would like to mention and have you think about is the fact that people who are given power change as a person. They change and want more power. Unless we get people who will use their power for good and not evil like they are doing now, then we will never have a different society.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

Small town Grandpa Jim isn't allowed to tap your phones, intercept your mail, or rummage through your house either.

The government stinks. They can get a warrant to do the above with relative ease, now they are doing it secretly without bothering with a real court. FISA stinks to high heaven.... a secret court? Enough already.

I am going to join Rand Paul's class action suit.

Well, it does bother me that the public isn't taking it seriously but this is the way things like this are planned. As much as it pains me to say it, the way they do this is just brilliant. They use what I call the baby steps method. They'd rather wait 30 years and have the vast majority of people remain asleep than try to do it all in a day and have tens of millions of people waking up all at once.

See. The thing is that they don't care about this becoming public knowledge. They almost certainly planned it this way.

In my opinion....

1. The media gets to look like it's doing it's watchdog job of "keeping them honest".

2. The public doesn't realize the media is in on it. The public buys the whole story about the media catching the government and breaking the story out of the kindness of their hearts.

3. At first, it might creep some people out but when nothing happens, it will actually be a win for Big Brother. All of our dire warnings about the abuse of power and totalitarianism and all that stuff will look foolish when they don't happen. Or at least when they don't happen right away. Most people live in the right now. Not only do they not learn from the past - They don't think much about the future. So, when this spy thing doesn't harm them in any obvious way right off the bat, they will swallow the whole "If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" thing hook, line and sinker.

4. The goal here is not to set up an Orwelian state in one fell swoop. It is literally the boiling frog applied on a grand scale. There can be a thousand incremental steps but if they are slow enough and well planned/executed, most people will not notice or care.

And finally, the biggest problem with the public is that nobody wants to be that guy everyone makes fun of. The tin foil hat guy. Well, almost nobody. Most people are drunk on their social status and don't want to risk losing friends or possibly even romantic relationships or spouses just to question these things out loud.

And deep down, a lot of people know we're right. They're afraid of ending up on some watchlist somewhere and not even knowing it. They'd rather just be good little drones and not worry about it. This may sound insane to those of you who have never allowed yourselves to be intimidated into silence but it is a powerful thing and TPTB know it. Just the thought of being watched can be enough to keep a lot of people from criticizing the government.

In the last few days, I have seen several forums that are normally pretty active with political chat fall utterly silent. In one forum, the thread that was started about this NSA thing has a grand total of ten posts.

Originally posted by BrianFlanders
Well, it does bother me that the public isn't taking it seriously but this is the way things like this are planned. As much as it pains me to say it, the way they do this is just brilliant. They use what I call the baby steps method. They'd rather wait 30 years and have the vast majority of people remain asleep than try to do it all in a day and have tens of millions of people waking up all at once.

See. The thing is that they don't care about this becoming public knowledge. They almost certainly planned it this way.

In my opinion....

1. The media gets to look like it's doing it's watchdog job of "keeping them honest".

2. The public doesn't realize the media is in on it. The public buys the whole story about the media catching the government and breaking the story out of the kindness of their hearts.

3. At first, it might creep some people out but when nothing happens, it will actually be a win for Big Brother. All of our dire warnings about the abuse of power and totalitarianism and all that stuff will look foolish when they don't happen. Or at least when they don't happen right away. Most people live in the right now. Not only do they not learn from the past - They don't think much about the future. So, when this spy thing doesn't harm them in any obvious way right off the bat, they will swallow the whole "If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" thing hook, line and sinker.

4. The goal here is not to set up an Orwelian state in one fell swoop. It is literally the boiling frog applied on a grand scale. There can be a thousand incremental steps but if they are slow enough and well planned/executed, most people will not notice or care.

And finally, the biggest problem with the public is that nobody wants to be that guy everyone makes fun of. The tin foil hat guy. Well, almost nobody. Most people are drunk on their social status and don't want to risk losing friends or possibly even romantic relationships or spouses just to question these things out loud.

And deep down, a lot of people know we're right. They're afraid of ending up on some watchlist somewhere and not even knowing it. They'd rather just be good little drones and not worry about it. This may sound insane to those of you who have never allowed yourselves to be intimidated into silence but it is a powerful thing and TPTB know it. Just the thought of being watched can be enough to keep a lot of people from criticizing the government.

In the last few days, I have seen several forums that are normally pretty active with political chat fall utterly silent. In one forum, the thread that was started about this NSA thing has a grand total of ten posts.

edit on 9-6-2013 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-6-2013 by BrianFlanders because: (no reason given)

I agree...the ones in charge are "reasonably" clever, but id not say they were brilliant strategists...mostly they look clever because the population is incredibly facile and stupid...but they had to dumb everyone down for a couple decades first..I mean have you witnessed the degeneration of TV, especially over the last 20 years...year on year it gets worse...Look at the discovery channel for a good example..it used to be about science but then it became all about some guys who argue about building ridiculous looking choppers. That's where the apathy comes from, the USA and other western governments can pull any cr4p they like..and they do it in plain sight now...and unfortunately if they can be outed over this spying, and officially acknowledging a police state,, yet the media has not once used the proper term "police state"...quite interesting isnt it, even the guardian..has not used the true term about a government that spies on EVERYONE...its called a "POLICE STATE"...the fact its been acknowledged and admitted to is worse than the suspicion we all had ..because look at the feeble reaction...WOW, to be honest im not one be shocked at the reaction..like i said people are beyond all hope.

as for the whistle blower..also im not sure i buy him either...a couple of things he said smell funny to me...this leak looks deliberate to me. This is the culmination of a bunch of beta tests being run on society...to see the reaction..I mean the occupy wallstreet protests had to happen, because there is always a protest movement, and they always come out depending how hard you provoke them into appearing..well the financial collapse and banksters being bailed out at the public expense was designed to provoke a reaction..to test the public spirit..and we seen the protests that materialized, they were predictably easily put down...and remember the occupy movement consisted of the usual protesters..young, naive and generally idealistic...and as most intelligent people knew from the go get it would fizzle out quickly. Test 1, guage the strength of your population.

Originally posted by stars15k
I am shocked at the government for what they are doing, but...there is nothing I do online (or off ) that I would be concerned someone else knew. I'm one of the ones that think it doesn't matter if I'm not doing anything wrong. I have seen little here or anywhere else online that anyone says or does that would be something the government or anyone else really would care about. I am not a believer in conspiracies, so am not the least bit paranoid; I have the webcam lens covered with black tape to prevent a really unflattering picture being captured. Webcams are at a really, really bad angle.

What bothers me the most is the tremendous amount of equipment and people it takes to wade through the mundane crap they are "spying on." It's a big waste of time and money.

see, here's the rub....

you believe "if i'm not doing anything wrong, why does it matter?"

Here's why it matters....BECAUSE IT'S NONE OF THEIR GODDAMN BUSINESS....would you be comfortable if i followed you around your home, and watched everything you did? read everything(and i DO mean EVERYTHING) you read, saw everything you saw, listened to every conversation you have, and could repeat the events of every day, from memory, to whoever wanted to know?

Would you be comfortable with that?

I imagine you wouldn't....because it's none of my goddamn business what you do with your time, and it's none of theirs either..

reply to post by terriblyvexed


You can bet that the NSA is listening, watching and recording this very thread....searching...for violations...gross deviations from the party line, the rules of the Matrix...always searching... AND BY DOING SO, VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION... the law of the land...the very contract we had that bonds us to the government...so the contract has been dissolved by the malicious actions of the aforementioned. Conduct yourselves accordingly.

Originally posted by UnknownKnower
I know this is going to sound very typical but well think about it. If the NSA wants to do anything it really doesnt matter what we have to say about it because the people really wont make a difference unless we gather in groups. I forget who said this but its a very relevant quote "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable." If someone knows who said this then feel free to say so. I forget. But to continue we should all really start to understand how and why they are doing what they are doing. They obviously show no regard to our wants or our rights. They are only doing what they feel will benefit them in the long run. The only way to stop this is to stop the people right at the source. Change those in power and replace them with people who care more about "the people" and less about themselves. Another thing I would like to mention and have you think about is the fact that people who are given power change as a person. They change and want more power. Unless we get people who will use their power for good and not evil like they are doing now, then we will never have a different society.

Personally I don't think talking about revolution is a wise idea..firstly because you know now for sure they are reading this haha...and secondly because trying to fight a far superior opponent is beyond stupid. You cannot fight a machine..and at any rate there is nothing to replace the machine with except naive ideas about freedom and liberty. Those are just BS words you get fed to keep you happy and deluded..you cant be free in an organised civilization, but you can be free in a jungle or desert, where there is no 9 to 5 and no bills and taxes but no infrastructure either. You can opt out and be free if you want it bad enough but trying to change an organised civilization into a hippy commune is impossible obviously...you cant have it both ways.

The internet was invented by the military industrial complex in the first place...its well know. Then we have huge mega companies like Google going around mapping every house one every street...Facebook collecting everyone's photo and personal contacts and personal information, well everyone who is dumb enough to give it up freely. The silent majority apparently couldn't join the dots , and see where all this was linked...because that's how f**king brain dead people are. The CIA probably run half the porn sites too, as its great bait to get people to buy computers and go online...I mean if I was in the intelligence community Id have come up with that idea myself haha...but they had to invent facebook to hook the vacuous cosmopolitan reading women hahahaha..and in turn hook the guys trying to get int the women's pants..how many likes can I get now??...you need good bait to go fishing.

What your really expressing is desperation and the feeling I used to have most of my life..helplessness. I felt helpless, like I had no real power or control over my own life..and its true, I always knew it...Now everyone is feeling the same thing. All you ever had was the illusion of control and self determination..now you know other people are pulling the strings of your fate...they always have been. Like I said go with the flow, bury your head in the sand, or go live in the rain forest...I mean i understand why people bury their heads in the sand and live in denial, you risk going nuts when you see things like they really are and continue living here..and going nuts is a occupational hazard of so called "truthers" and so called "conspiracy theorists" why do you think so many are crazy.

Edward Snowden is a hero of humanity. The contribution he has just made to the freedom of his fellow man will be felt as epic in scope. I appeal to the good folks at the NSA to start to do the right thing ,support the people and get on the winning team.

Oh and another important thing to remember...How come they couldn't even stop the Boston Bombers? They used the internet, probably ranted all over message boards like this...so how come their snooping didn't detect them????????? you know real terrorists??????? That either means their data collecting is worthless and useless for catching terrorists or that their police state isn't designed to catch terrorists...umm..exactly.

Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Oh I guess I can't resist reacting to such overt provocation. Public insults and all- who could resist bringing forth an equally exaggerated counter argument?

Actually, I don't feel you've put up enough argument behind your position to contend with. I'd need something besides "you're just daft if you are not against this". It's to easy to counter with "You must be a criminal if you're against it."

The issue of privacy on the net always makes me wonder if, when people started to gather together into grouped dwellings, forming villages, there was controversy over the problem that walking around in that village meant ANYONE might see your face, might be able to ask around and know your identity and background, might see your daily activities......?

If so, the answer was probably as simple as it is now- if you don't want to be seen and known, don't live in or walk around in, a village or city. Or in this case- don't use the internet. Stay out of that cyber-community.

I am not doing anything illegal, and am not really against those that are, being caught, in general.

edit on 7-6-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)

i'm kinda curious why you believe this thread is "overt provocation", and "public insults and all" against you personally? are you so deluded that you think everything is about you?

near as i can tell, this thread is about the OP's bewilderment with regard to the lack of public rage on the part of the citizenry of these united states, with respect to the "revelation" that companies have been providing information about them to the federal government, in direct violation of the law, and guaranteed rights and civil liberties, as defined, and declared in the constitution, and bill of rights.

It's not about you. you'd do well to get over yourself.

Now then...it's not just about the "cyber community"...it's much worse than that...it's not just about Google, or Yahoo, or Verizon, or Facebook (companies we've KNOWN were selling us out to the federal government for YEARS, in come cases, even decades). This is about the much deeper "revelation" that companies like Apple, and Microsoft are doing the same thing...so it's much wider than the internet, and the "cyber community"...

Of course, those of us who have been paying attention, have known this was going on for quite some time now, but anytime people used to mention it, or try to warn people, they'd be ridiculed, and called a conspiracy theorist, and asked if their tin hat was on too tight....they were the butt of jokes...now it's in the papers, and it's still as un-funny now, as it was for all the years people tried to make it mainstream common knowledge.

as i said before, it is an issue because it doesn't MATTER whether or not you're doing anything wrong...your privacy is your right, and it is none of the federal government's business what you do in the privacy of your home. if they want to know about your activities, they MUST get a warrant..this is a detail they seem to have forgotten..

"Government", or at least the form of government the founders of this nation created (a constitutional republic, NOT a democracy), is nothing more than apparatus that was designed to protect the rights, liberty, and prosperity of the citizens of this nation. in addition to this, they are to act as an interface with the rest of the world's nations, to act on our behalf, in our best interests, in matters of trade, diplomacy, and (when necessary to their core mission of protecting our rights, liberties, and prosperity) war. the government is SUPPOSED to work for us, and they are supposed to answer to us, and they are supposed to fear us...not the other way around...it's a pity they don't teach that in schools anymore.

Originally posted by HUMBLEONE
Edward Snowden is a hero of humanity. The contribution he has just made to the freedom of his fellow man will be felt as epic in scope. I appeal to the good folks at the NSA to start to do the right thing ,support the people and get on the winning team.

This guy worked for the CIA...contractor of whatever...he still worked for them and in whatever capacity he evidently had access to top secret information...other wise he couldn't blow a whistle on it..Maybe he is a great guy, but maybe he is just a mouth piece. This information coming out only makes things worse. Dont you see that. The conspiracy theory could be blown off and denied, the truth cant be denied...yet if you cant deny the truth but also see you cant change it..now that's even worse. This truth coming out will not topple a government it wont even change the president for another clone...in fact he is already looking to catch the whistle blower...this is no water gate...its a billion times worse, yet nobody is accountable and nobody can be held accountable...back in the day Nixon was the bad apple in the bunch (supposedly) but what to do when the whole barrel is rotten...who you gonna call now...Ghostbusters. ...or maybe anonymous (AKA intelligence front)...or wikileaks (AKA intelligence front) hahahah ...

reply to post by terriblyvexed


I agree with your mention of knowing the laws. It is really easy for the people to avoid having rights taken away if they educated themselves on civil procedure. You can only control your government when it is done through a court of record. And learning this stuff is only difficult if you are engulfed in [insert popular tv show here] land, and can't understand some legalese. The rules of civil procedure in any state is probably less than 100 pages, and the rules of evidence are even less. Learn those and you have the power. The pen is mightier than the sword has a huge ring of truth to it.

Why do they need to listen in/record phones calls, anyway? Terrorist plots can easily be planned over the backyard fence without using any phone. Should we all then be required to wear either transmitters or recording devices so that the gov't can monitor ALL of our communications whether electronic or verbal? The greatest thing that ever happened to the U.S. government was the advent of "terrorism". It's now used in all manner of ways to encroach on our civil liberties.

Originally posted by Daedalus

Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Oh I guess I can't resist reacting to such overt provocation. Public insults and all- who could resist bringing forth an equally exaggerated counter argument?

Actually, I don't feel you've put up enough argument behind your position to contend with. I'd need something besides "you're just daft if you are not against this". It's to easy to counter with "You must be a criminal if you're against it."

The issue of privacy on the net always makes me wonder if, when people started to gather together into grouped dwellings, forming villages, there was controversy over the problem that walking around in that village meant ANYONE might see your face, might be able to ask around and know your identity and background, might see your daily activities......?

If so, the answer was probably as simple as it is now- if you don't want to be seen and known, don't live in or walk around in, a village or city. Or in this case- don't use the internet. Stay out of that cyber-community.

I am not doing anything illegal, and am not really against those that are, being caught, in general.

edit on 7-6-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)

i'm kinda curious why you believe this thread is "overt provocation", and "public insults and all" against you personally? are you so deluded that you think everything is about you?

near as i can tell, this thread is about the OP's bewilderment with regard to the lack of public rage on the part of the citizenry of these united states, with respect to the "revelation" that companies have been providing information about them to the federal government, in direct violation of the law, and guaranteed rights and civil liberties, as defined, and declared in the constitution, and bill of rights.

It's not about you. you'd do well to get over yourself.

Now then...it's not just about the "cyber community"...it's much worse than that...it's not just about Google, or Yahoo, or Verizon, or Facebook (companies we've KNOWN were selling us out to the federal government for YEARS, in come cases, even decades). This is about the much deeper "revelation" that companies like Apple, and Microsoft are doing the same thing...so it's much wider than the internet, and the "cyber community"...

Of course, those of us who have been paying attention, have known this was going on for quite some time now, but anytime people used to mention it, or try to warn people, they'd be ridiculed, and called a conspiracy theorist, and asked if their tin hat was on too tight....they were the butt of jokes...now it's in the papers, and it's still as un-funny now, as it was for all the years people tried to make it mainstream common knowledge.

as i said before, it is an issue because it doesn't MATTER whether or not you're doing anything wrong...your privacy is your right, and it is none of the federal government's business what you do in the privacy of your home. if they want to know about your activities, they MUST get a warrant..this is a detail they seem to have forgotten..

"Government", or at least the form of government the founders of this nation created (a constitutional republic, NOT a democracy), is nothing more than apparatus that was designed to protect the rights, liberty, and prosperity of the citizens of this nation. in addition to this, they are to act as an interface with the rest of the world's nations, to act on our behalf, in our best interests, in matters of trade, diplomacy, and (when necessary to their core mission of protecting our rights, liberties, and prosperity) war. the government is SUPPOSED to work for us, and they are supposed to answer to us, and they are supposed to fear us...not the other way around...it's a pity they don't teach that in schools anymore.

very well spoken my friend! Cheers! (clink)

Originally posted by HUMBLEONE
reply to post by terriblyvexed

 

You can bet that the NSA is listening, watching and recording this very thread....searching...for violations...gross deviations from the party line, the rules of the Matrix...always searching... AND BY DOING SO, VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION

In what way? Which clause of the Constitution says, "The NSA shall not read the public ATS forums?"

Am I violating the Constitution by reading the public ATS forums? NB, I am not an NSA employee or contractor, just curious.

Originally posted by sqorpius
Why do they need to listen in/record phones calls, anyway? Terrorist plots can easily be planned over the backyard fence without using any phone. Should we all then be required to wear either transmitters or recording devices so that the gov't can monitor ALL of our communications whether electronic or verbal? The greatest thing that ever happened to the U.S. government was the advent of "terrorism". It's now used in all manner of ways to encroach on our civil liberties.

Because it isn't about terrorism...

it is about control. Learning your habits, what you love, your personality, your hot buttons, what you fear, will you fight or flee, are you armed, are you a prepper?

This is about totalitarian control, nothing less, and the patriot act was the door that opened us up to all this #. I am ashamed to say that right after 9/11 went down, I was one of those who said "of you're doing nothing wrong, nothing to worry about." Of course, at the time, I was much more afraid of muslim terrorists than I was my own government. How that worm has turned.